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Old
02-01-2014, 05:41 AM
  #176
Beendair Donedat
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Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
Well yeah, the Habs have been playing horribly since November because we're overrating grit and dump-ins.

You don't need hockey players who can't play hockey in the toolbox. The Bruins don't dress goons who can't play a regular shift. The Leafs regularly dress two or 3. Why should we be trying to keep up with the Leafs in goon count?
You must have missed Orr trying to get at Subban earlier this year....Parros stopped that.... Or when Orr concussed Bourque after going after our Captain... Or McLaren beating up Gorges after running over anyone he wanted... You guys seriously can't just rewrite history because you don't like fighting.

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02-01-2014, 05:59 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
The goal is to thrive not just to survive.

Scotty Bowman had enforcers on his teams. I'm sure he did with the Habs.

Every team has one and some have two like Calgary Edmonton Toronto and Ottawa.
So good teams tend not to have two?

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02-01-2014, 08:16 AM
  #178
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huh... you expect guys like Gallagher, Briere, DD, Gionta, Plekanec to grind more ?
Everybody in the NHL needs to do some level of grinding. Gionta is actually a very good grinder, Plekanec also. They win battles, are hard on the puck and do the small things to win.

A player doesn't have to be Travis Moen or Daniel Payer to "grind". Today's NHL is such that everybody does a certain amount of grinding, if they don't then you don't win games.

The Habs did a lot of it against Chicago and Boston and won...not so much in recent lopsided losses nor the Ottawa game.

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02-01-2014, 08:21 AM
  #179
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So good teams tend not to have two?
Anaheim LA and Pittsburgh all do.

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02-01-2014, 12:17 PM
  #180
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See that's the thing, good teams don't dress goons who can't take a regular shift. The Bruins, Kings, their lowest regulars for ice time (Thornton and Nolan) each play about 8 minutes a game and can play at even strength. Chicago's worst regular player for TOI is Bollig who plays 10 minutes a game. Parros is worse than useless at everything but facepunching and plays 4 minutes a game. It's not the same thing, good teams don't employ pylons who can't do anything but fight. Closest thing is Tim Jackman in Anaheim who plays 7 minutes a game but has only dressed for 18 games.

The 4th line enforcer is a dead role if you want to compete. When the games matter the fighting stops, the Hawks have essentially dropped fighting from their game and don't engage in the sideshow. Sure we can have Parros to compete with Orr but does anyone really want to be trying to keep up with the Leafs in goonery?

I don't really mind if guys want to fight (I would rather it be out of the game but it is part of the game for now), but to dress a guy like Parros who can not do anything else is pants on head ********. What's funny is that when we beat the Bruins last year it was because of Prust being in the lineup but now that we have Parros and Murray it's because of them.

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02-02-2014, 06:37 AM
  #181
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I thought Parros had a very strong game again vs the Bolts. He played his role to perfection. Hopefully he can stay healthy and help us out down the stretch (where we traditionally need a guy like him in the lineup)

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02-02-2014, 06:46 AM
  #182
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I thought Parros had a very strong game again vs the Bolts. He played his role to perfection. Hopefully he can stay healthy and help us out down the stretch (where we traditionally need a guy like him in the lineup)
Agree. At least we are no longer being bullied. Remember the Ottawa series?

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02-08-2014, 12:50 PM
  #183
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Is Parros hurt or has his time with the habs expired? Not dressing him against calgary, who dress two heavies was strange. Then not dressing him against Vancouver, who lead the league in majors, made me wonder, but tonight dressing 7 D instead of playing him, I got to think something is up?

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02-08-2014, 01:07 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by habsfan22 View Post
Is Parros hurt or has his time with the habs expired? Not dressing him against calgary, who dress two heavies was strange. Then not dressing him against Vancouver, who lead the league in majors, made me wonder, but tonight dressing 7 D instead of playing him, I got to think something is up?
Probably realized he shouldn't fight anymore and he is not worth playing..

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02-08-2014, 03:14 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Dagistitsyn View Post
Probably realized he shouldn't fight anymore and he is not worth playing..
That's about it.

The guy will be put on waivers as soon as Moen, Galchenyuk and Bournival are all back.

His very first game vs the Leafs ruined his whole season.

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02-08-2014, 03:18 PM
  #186
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Weise replaced him, rightfully so. We actually have a very good 4rth line this season. After like 10+ years of having a party pack of extra D-man, useless small forwards and grinders that can't skate or fight.

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02-08-2014, 03:42 PM
  #187
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Last summer, MB signed Parros, Bouillon, Brière and Murray

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02-08-2014, 04:06 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Last summer, MB signed Parros, Bouillon, Brière and Murray
no he did not

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02-08-2014, 04:11 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Last summer, MB signed Parros, Bouillon, Brière and Murray
Murray is playing better now than when he first joined the Habs and brings much needed toughness to this team (been a while since someone like Lucic gave Price a shove in his crease)

Bouillon has always been a stop-gap until our young D develop in Hamilton.

Briere is being wasted by Therrien who obviously does not like him.

Parros is what this team needed/needs and was injured on a freak accident.

What's your point?

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02-09-2014, 05:58 AM
  #190
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Parros was playing super well, no? (last game).
He was parking his 235lbs body in front of the net...good thing.

He'll be back (imo) against the Bruins (Thornton, Lucic, Chara), Leaves (Orr, McLaren), or Sabres (Scott)...imo.


We should be happy that we have lots of depth for once for our 3rd and 4th lines...good thing (injuries happen *knock on wood for health*).


Prust
Moen
White
Weise
Bournival (minor injury?)
Parros


I don't want to trade any unless it's a trade we absolutely cannot refuse (since we're being smart by insuring ourselves against injuries + not sure Parros will get playoff ice-time UNLESS he can go to the net often and park it there...very helpful if he does that since he's so hard to move and he can easily screen goalies with his huge frame/body).

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02-09-2014, 06:53 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
Parros was playing super well, no? (last game).
He was parking his 235lbs body in front of the net...good thing.

He'll be back (imo) against the Bruins (Thornton, Lucic, Chara), Leaves (Orr, McLaren), or Sabres (Scott)...imo.


We should be happy that we have lots of depth for once for our 3rd and 4th lines...good thing (injuries happen *knock on wood for health*).


Prust
Moen
White
Weise
Bournival (minor injury?)
Parros


I don't want to trade any unless it's a trade we absolutely cannot refuse (since we're being smart by insuring ourselves against injuries + not sure Parros will get playoff ice-time UNLESS he can go to the net often and park it there...very helpful if he does that since he's so hard to move and he can easily screen goalies with his huge frame/body).
Completely agree.

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02-10-2014, 09:15 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by TennisMenace View Post
Agree. At least we are no longer being bullied. Remember the Ottawa series?
Yep, I do remember the Ottawa series and, last time I checked, the differences were a) Mtl inability to score; b) Carey Price didn't bring his A-game and continued his glaring bad habit of overplaying to the puck side and therefore leaving himself vulnerable to cross-ice puck movement; c) a very hot opposition goaltender.

The former was most obvious during the lengthy powerplay after Eller's injury, when they could not score. Thus, the last point is revealed. Further, they managed over 50 shots in the game in which Eller was injured, and so continued to bombard the opposition goaltender throughout the period which supposedly most indicates their intimidation and overpowering. In fact, it reveals a decisive lack of goal scoring; a decisive lack which persists to this date.

In terms of the 2nd point, Price's habit of over-playing to the puck side has been corrected to a great degree through hard work and a new coach, but has, in fact, returned upon occasion this year.

I fail to see the relevance of suggesting a goon on our team would either correct the goal scoring lack (which is significant, persistent and systemic) or the confluence of our goalie being less than stellar while theirs was quite clearly standing on his head. A team that has quit, or has been run out of the building does not get over 50 shots, nor does such a team sustain this intensity level for an entire series. Yes, Ottawa did injure Eller and won the fights. However, having a goon does not un-injure Eller, nor can it. Having a goon does not obviate an injured player, either. Witness Crosby's injury history with up to half-a-dozen thugs in the lineup and the shots taken by Bergeron, Savard and Horton despite Boston's roster of evil-doers. You can't have it both ways.

I would also point out that Tim Thomas (right-wing paranoid though he may be) won the Conn Smythe Trophy in their cup run year, the year we were so intimidated by Boston's goon squad that we took the cup winner to seven games in a thrilling series. Again, it would seem to come down to goal scoring and goaltending.

Finally, the goon squad only ever cites emotional and/or irrational bases for their claims. Statistics, history, facts, etc. don't seem to matter.

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02-10-2014, 09:24 AM
  #193
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Listen, I hate the concept that a goon suddenly stops bad things from ever happening. It isn't true. Savard still got tuned by Steve Begin with no real repercussion.

That said, hockey players, especially Canadian hockey players, believe so much in the value of an enforcer that they truly put respect in one being in a lineup. George Parros gets ripped apart by offensive players when he's on the ice but the late whistle scrums pretty much stop. It's an irrational fear. A guy like Marchand should just keep it up and draw a roughing penalty.

But NHLers have stupid concepts of pride and honour and nobody would ever anger an enforcer, goad him into a fight and then draw a roughing penalty. So instead we have these transparent checks and balances that really don't exist anywhere other than their mind.

I don't mind having a George Parros kind of be the locker room mascot, as offensive as that may sound. I don't mean to demean him but I'm sure he's very well liked and keeps the guys happy in rough times. Plus it probably means discounted shirts from his store. But the less we play him, the more we can play skill. Dale Weise doesn't scare anyone. Parros does. Better to have him "just in case" than not at all.

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02-10-2014, 10:20 AM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Last summer, MB signed Parros, Bouillon, Brière and Murray
Not quite, but regardless, go back and read how many people were thrilled about the Parros and Murray moves at the time because size.

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02-10-2014, 10:39 AM
  #195
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Not quite, but regardless, go back and read how many people were thrilled about the Parros and Murray moves at the time because size.
Nice point. Go back a little further to last year's trade deadline and see how many people were upset when Pitt traded for Murray and it cost very little to get him. Those types were all over Bergevin and even more so when he signed Murray over the summer because they saw this as a sign that Bergevin was admitting his mistake in not acquiring Murray at the trade deadline.

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02-10-2014, 10:44 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Chris Nilan View Post
Nice point. Go back a little further to last year's trade deadline and see how many people were upset when Pitt traded for Murray and it cost very little to get him. Those types were all over Bergevin and even more so when he signed Murray over the summer because they saw this as a sign that Bergevin was admitting his mistake in not acquiring Murray at the trade deadline.
Probably would have meant giving up the Lehkonen pick and whoever this year. Yikes.

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02-10-2014, 10:55 AM
  #197
Ollie Williams
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I forget which 24 CH episode it was, but we were playing against the Wild. One thing I still remember is Parros chirping from the bench to someone on the Wild. He was saying something like "don't do something you will regret, buddy". He repeated it a couple of times too in that segment. It seems silly but I have no doubts that this facet of the game is needed.

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02-10-2014, 11:18 AM
  #198
Chris Nilan
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Originally Posted by Ollie Williams View Post
I forget which 24 CH episode it was, but we were playing against the Wild. One thing I still remember is Parros chirping from the bench to someone on the Wild. He was saying something like "don't do something you will regret, buddy". He repeated it a couple of times too in that segment. It seems silly but I have no doubts that this facet of the game is needed.
Wow, that's awesome! Definitely changed the game.
Here's the boxscore of that game: http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=400484439

We lost. Parros was minus-3!

The game we won, on 19 Nov., Parros didn't play.
Here's the boxscore of that game: http://www.covers.com/pageLoader/pag...core57323.html

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02-10-2014, 03:41 PM
  #199
Ollie Williams
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Wow, that's awesome! Definitely changed the game.
Here's the boxscore of that game: http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=400484439

We lost. Parros was minus-3!

The game we won, on 19 Nov., Parros didn't play.
Here's the boxscore of that game: http://www.covers.com/pageLoader/pag...core57323.html
Not changing the outcome of a game and not contributing to an aspect of it are two very different things. I don't recall saying that it will change the outcome of a game. In fact, you quoted me and I still don't seem to say or even suggest this. Where are you getting this information from?

We have won games with Parros in the lineup. Again, I don't see what your point is.

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02-10-2014, 05:30 PM
  #200
SouthernHab
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@ Chris Nilan.

Why do you think Eller is struggling now? Did he lose his physical skills? Or is it more of a loss of confidence (sad to say but I must pre-empt the "he needs Gallagher" crowd).

All professional sports have a huge mental component as well as the physical skill set component. One without the other is failure.

In your mind, you flippantly dismiss the emotional/mental role that an enforcer like Parros has when playing against the goon it up teams. Not a problem. As long as you or Gauthier are not the GM, all is well.

Therrien sucks as a coach but his usage of Parros as of late has been appropriate.

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