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Old
02-10-2014, 05:30 PM
  #201
SouthernHab
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@ Chris Nilan.

Why do you think Eller is struggling now? Did he lose his physical skills? Or is it more of a loss of confidence (sad to say but I must pre-empt the "he needs Gallagher" crowd).

All professional sports have a huge mental component as well as the physical skill set component. One without the other is failure.

In your mind, you flippantly dismiss the emotional/mental role that an enforcer like Parros has when playing against the goon it up teams. Not a problem. As long as you or Gauthier are not the GM, all is well.

Therrien sucks as a coach but his usage of Parros as of late has been appropriate.

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02-10-2014, 08:51 PM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie Williams View Post
Not changing the outcome of a game and not contributing to an aspect of it are two very different things. I don't recall saying that it will change the outcome of a game. In fact, you quoted me and I still don't seem to say or even suggest this. Where are you getting this information from?

We have won games with Parros in the lineup. Again, I don't see what your point is.
Where am I getting this from? You specifically mentioned Parros making a huge difference against the Wild.

FACT: he played one game against the Wild.
FACT: we lost the game he played against the Wild.
FACT: he did change that game against the Wild.
FACT: he was minus-3.

FACT: the game he didn't play against the Wild -- SAME TEAM -- was an easy win for our team.

We are a better team without him. THAT was my point.

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02-10-2014, 08:53 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
@ Chris Nilan.

Why do you think Eller is struggling now? Did he lose his physical skills? Or is it more of a loss of confidence (sad to say but I must pre-empt the "he needs Gallagher" crowd).

All professional sports have a huge mental component as well as the physical skill set component. One without the other is failure.

In your mind, you flippantly dismiss the emotional/mental role that an enforcer like Parros has when playing against the goon it up teams. Not a problem. As long as you or Gauthier are not the GM, all is well.

Therrien sucks as a coach but his usage of Parros as of late has been appropriate.
So if Parros beats up somebody (not likely, he's not a "narrow win" category of fighter, but for argument's sake let's play along . . .) and that will make Eller confident again?

I would have thought that being denied PP time, being asked to play wing when you're a centre and have been for life, being asked to play with Prust and Bourque. I would think that even Sisyphus might give in a little after that.

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02-10-2014, 10:28 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Chris Nilan View Post
So if Parros beats up somebody (not likely, he's not a "narrow win" category of fighter, but for argument's sake let's play along . . .) and that will make Eller confident again?

I would have thought that being denied PP time, being asked to play wing when you're a centre and have been for life, being asked to play with Prust and Bourque. I would think that even Sisyphus might give in a little after that.
Talk about taking a post completely off of the track with regard to context.

Kudos.

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02-10-2014, 10:46 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Nilan View Post
Where am I getting this from? You specifically mentioned Parros making a huge difference against the Wild.
Absolutely incorrect. Unless you quote me saying this or even implying it, I will kindly request that you review my comment and understand it, or ignore it and continue on this topic with another poster. Lying and falsifying information hurts your argument regardless of its validity.

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Originally Posted by Chris Nilan View Post
FACT: he played one game against the Wild.
FACT: we lost the game he played against the Wild.
FACT: he did change that game against the Wild.
FACT: he was minus-3.

FACT: the game he didn't play against the Wild -- SAME TEAM -- was an easy win for our team.

We are a better team without him. THAT was my point.
It's self evident why this entire next part is flawed. I won't comment on the specifics of it because I neither think he is the reason we win games nor think he is the reason we lose them. In fact, this wasn't even part of the original observation I made.

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02-10-2014, 11:21 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Nilan View Post
Where am I getting this from? You specifically mentioned Parros making a huge difference against the Wild.

FACT: he played one game against the Wild.
FACT: we lost the game he played against the Wild.
FACT: he did change that game against the Wild.
FACT: he was minus-3.

FACT: the game he didn't play against the Wild -- SAME TEAM -- was an easy win for our team.

We are a better team without him. THAT was my point.
We are a better team without someone who plays less than five minutes a night?

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02-11-2014, 05:15 AM
  #207
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I use to be a big proponent of carrying of a tough guy. I still like tough payers, but he can't be a total liability while on the ice.

Someone poked fun at the poster when he suggested we're a better team without him, by saying " really? we're better off without someone playing 5 minutes a night" suggesting that the impact is minimal. If you look at the goals given up during those 5 minutes they are completely disproportionate from the rest of the roster, thus causing a gap that cannot be made up during the other 55minutes when he is not on the ice.

Parros is a plug, and shouldn't step foot on the ice again this season. He costs us more in 5 minutes per night than any other player normally does for their 15-20mins.

We need a tough guy who can take a semi-regular shift and not lose the game for us during those 8-10 minutes.

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02-11-2014, 06:17 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Universe View Post
We are a better team without someone who plays less than five minutes a night?
exactly, 5 minutes of Parros are 5 minutes wasted... 10 of White, Bournival or even Weise are not.

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02-11-2014, 06:36 AM
  #209
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The Habs men of renown are in the pipeline, plying their trade and soon the Habs will have their big players with abilities to play a two-way game. When that happens the Habs will be headed for glory and fans can watch their star players perform without punitive actions from the goons employed to disrupt them.

When players of immense talent like Collberg, Lehkonen, Andrighetto and Hudon join the Habs, they will have protection as they did in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. Who knows maybe even Reway can play in that environment.

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02-11-2014, 07:43 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Universe View Post
We are a better team without someone who plays less than five minutes a night?
Ya, it's not like Parros has time to be on the ice for 3 goals against or anything...



It also means you're playing with 12 forwards, and so killing any good shift a 4th line can have giving your top 9 a break. Instead you have to do some juggling and double shift players at time. But even that isn't as big a deal as putting Parros on the ice.

The myth of the enforcer..
They used to have a role. That was killed by the rules set in place. The NHL keeps putting new rules in order to make fighting more and more difficult. It's come to the point where most fights are staged. They are utterly useless. Contrary to popular belief, nobody is intimidated on the ice, because they are all protected. You can talk crap at someone or clean hit any star player all you want, if the opponent decides to drop the gloves, they'll get a penalty. You always have people refusing to accept reality, too stubborn to realize the obvious. Enforcers have been made useless 99%. So no, they are not a need.


Last edited by Kriss E: 02-11-2014 at 07:48 AM.
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Old
02-11-2014, 08:38 AM
  #211
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From what I've seen, Parros has gotten better as the season has gone on. I don't think there's a player in this world who can get better being hurt for a month, playing a game being hurt for another month playing 4 games, sitting 9 games, playing 2 games, being hurt for 3 weeks playing 4 games sitting 6 games etc. IMO the best he's looked was his last stretch of games before he got scratched again.

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02-11-2014, 09:34 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Talk about taking a post completely off of the track with regard to context.

Kudos.
How pray tell did I miss the co text?

You claim that Eller's confidence is affected by having or not having Parros in the lineup.

In response to that specious claim, I offered 3 very obvious things related to the actual game of hockey that would do a much more thorough job of it.

Yes, I sincerely believe that being relegated to the wing or having to play with Bourque and Prust would sap someone's confidence. You are being told effectively that you are either the 5th best centre on this team or that you are good enough to play with a talentless grinder who will try but can't make up for his lack of talent and with a worldclass floater who might lead the league in that category; hence, my reference to Sisyphus. Even he might quit if told those two things.

I fail to see how Eller's confidence is in any way connected to the presence of a motionless slug like Parros. He came back nicely from his injury and was doing well until the coach started moving him around, either due to injuries or Therrien's legendary line juggling.

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02-11-2014, 09:38 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Universe View Post
We are a better team without someone who plays less than five minutes a night?
Yes, precisely!
I'm glad you are catching on.

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02-11-2014, 11:33 AM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Nilan View Post
How pray tell did I miss the co text?

You claim that Eller's confidence is affected by having or not having Parros in the lineup.

In response to that specious claim, I offered 3 very obvious things related to the actual game of hockey that would do a much more thorough job of it.

Yes, I sincerely believe that being relegated to the wing or having to play with Bourque and Prust would sap someone's confidence. You are being told effectively that you are either the 5th best centre on this team or that you are good enough to play with a talentless grinder who will try but can't make up for his lack of talent and with a worldclass floater who might lead the league in that category; hence, my reference to Sisyphus. Even he might quit if told those two things.

I fail to see how Eller's confidence is in any way connected to the presence of a motionless slug like Parros. He came back nicely from his injury and was doing well until the coach started moving him around, either due to injuries or Therrien's legendary line juggling.
I did not make the claim about Eller's performance based on Parros. YOU are the one who is trying to imply that I said that.

I simply used Eller as an example that the mental game of hockey is bigger than what you are giving it credit.

Thanks.

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02-11-2014, 11:54 AM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I did not make the claim about Eller's performance based on Parros. YOU are the one who is trying to imply that I said that.

I simply used Eller as an example that the mental game of hockey is bigger than what you are giving it credit.

Thanks.
On that we may be agreed.

Now, pray tell, what does a pylon like Parros have to do with the mental aspect beyond putting excess strain on his linemates, the goalie, the defenceman and the coach every time he is on the ice and wearing them down b/c of the slack that must be taken up by those who have to play extra and extra hard to compensate for the extraordinary shortcomings he brings to the ice to play the actual game of hockey--you know, the one that counts on the scoreboard.

Oh, and by the way, scoring a goal never made a team feel bad.

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02-11-2014, 04:44 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Chris Nilan View Post
On that we may be agreed.

Now, pray tell, what does a pylon like Parros have to do with the mental aspect beyond putting excess strain on his linemates, the goalie, the defenceman and the coach every time he is on the ice and wearing them down b/c of the slack that must be taken up by those who have to play extra and extra hard to compensate for the extraordinary shortcomings he brings to the ice to play the actual game of hockey--you know, the one that counts on the scoreboard.

Oh, and by the way, scoring a goal never made a team feel bad.
Against the Bruins, Leafs or Sens, Parros is not viewed as a strain on the team.

You have a valid argument if Parros is playing against the Canes.

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02-11-2014, 09:13 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
We need a tough guy who can take a semi-regular shift and not lose the game for us during those 8-10 minutes.
Wow. It's so simple. I forgot those guys grow on trees.

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02-12-2014, 10:44 AM
  #218
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Brandon Prust ‏@BrandonPrust8 2h

@GeorgeParros has never seen #Titanic. I showed him my favorite scene! #barbados #notsoviolentrightnow @ViolentGents


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02-12-2014, 10:48 AM
  #219
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Chucky bottom right hand corner? I remember him saying he lived in Florida over the summer


edit: nvm barbados

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02-12-2014, 11:35 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I did not make the claim about Eller's performance based on Parros. YOU are the one who is trying to imply that I said that.

I simply used Eller as an example that the mental game of hockey is bigger than what you are giving it credit.

Thanks.
Yet every single player except Price is having a worse season this year compared to last year when we didn't have an Enforcer. Shouldn't at least some of them become more confident thanks to Parros pugilistic skills?

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02-12-2014, 03:16 PM
  #221
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Yet every single player except Price is having a worse season this year compared to last year when we didn't have an Enforcer. Shouldn't at least some of them become more confident thanks to Parros pugilistic skills?
That's not true.


Moen is also having a better year

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02-13-2014, 08:09 AM
  #222
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what does a pylon like Parros have to do with the mental aspect beyond putting excess strain on his linemates, the goalie, the defenceman and the coach every time he is on the ice and wearing them down b/c of the slack that must be taken up by those who have to play extra and extra hard to compensate for the extraordinary shortcomings he brings to the ice to play the actual game of hockey--you know, the one that counts on the scoreboard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Against the Bruins, Leafs or Sens, Parros is not viewed as a strain on the team.
Both Murray and Parros put a huge strain on their teammates because they are useless as hockey players. Just to stick to Parros, Ken Holland, GM of the best team in the NHL over the last 20 years, had this to say about one dimensional players:

Quote:
I havenít really bought into having fourth-line guys that donít have much skill and are one-dimensional players. I guess I put more of a premium on goals.Ē
Goals win hockey games - not fights.

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02-13-2014, 08:38 AM
  #223
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Quote:
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We are a better team without someone who plays less than five minutes a night?

Wasn't Parros a -2 or a -3 one night while he only played 4 minutes? lol

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02-13-2014, 08:54 AM
  #224
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Ya, it's not like Parros has time to be on the ice for 3 goals against or anything...



It also means you're playing with 12 forwards, and so killing any good shift a 4th line can have giving your top 9 a break. Instead you have to do some juggling and double shift players at time. But even that isn't as big a deal as putting Parros on the ice.

The myth of the enforcer..
They used to have a role. That was killed by the rules set in place. The NHL keeps putting new rules in order to make fighting more and more difficult. It's come to the point where most fights are staged. They are utterly useless. Contrary to popular belief, nobody is intimidated on the ice, because they are all protected. You can talk crap at someone or clean hit any star player all you want, if the opponent decides to drop the gloves, they'll get a penalty. You always have people refusing to accept reality, too stubborn to realize the obvious. Enforcers have been made useless 99%. So no, they are not a need.
And yet people, who are paid large sums of money and whose job security is tied to the teams success keep signing these players. Why is that ? is there a secret cabal of enforcers with compromising pictures of all of the GMS using this as leverage ?

You can keep repeating that enforcers are useless, go right ahead. But repating the same lie over and over does not make it true. GM's ( and by extension team owners) have a fundamentally different opinion than you do. should we invoke that not only are the overwhelming number of players somehow morons with less of an understanding of the game than some random internet poster but the people, whose very job it is to assemble the most competitive teams they can under the restrictions of the cap, that they ALSO should simply defer to your vision of the game ?

Yeah the NHL would be so much better if it simply defered to the people who proclaim to have some unique insight into the game that has excaped the people who actually are involved in player selections. The fact that many might not be able to tell the difference between a wristwatch and a wristshot can be excused, just listed to them profess their self-awarded authority.

Thanks. I'll pass.

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02-13-2014, 10:14 AM
  #225
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And yet people, who are paid large sums of money and whose job security is tied to the teams success keep signing these players. Why is that ? is there a secret cabal of enforcers with compromising pictures of all of the GMS using this as leverage ?

You can keep repeating that enforcers are useless, go right ahead. But repating the same lie over and over does not make it true. GM's ( and by extension team owners) have a fundamentally different opinion than you do. should we invoke that not only are the overwhelming number of players somehow morons with less of an understanding of the game than some random internet poster but the people, whose very job it is to assemble the most competitive teams they can under the restrictions of the cap, that they ALSO should simply defer to your vision of the game ?

Yeah the NHL would be so much better if it simply defered to the people who proclaim to have some unique insight into the game that has excaped the people who actually are involved in player selections. The fact that many might not be able to tell the difference between a wristwatch and a wristshot can be excused, just listed to them profess their self-awarded authority.

Thanks. I'll pass.
So, you're the type that despite all presented facts, you'd still believe the world is flat until completely proven round?

There is absolutely zero way for you to prove that having an enforcer impacts the end result of a game. None. Today, it's nothing more than a belief. Can I prove it?? Of course I can. Goals is what determines which team wins a game. I could argue that ice time will determine the level of importance of a player as well. Enforcers are so unimportant that they are purposely taken out of a line even if they had their best hockey game of the season. They have no impact on the game, and I'd argue their impact is more negative than positive seeing how putting them in the line up could mean scratching a much more useful player like White or Moen.

The NHL also believed wearing a helmet wasn't necessary. Heck, you still have players making fun of others because they wear a damn visor. You expect the people with that line of thinking to be in touch with reality?? I don't.
The same people that can't even give out suspensions that actually would make a difference. Ya, no, I don't expect these old school morons to understand much.

I don't need to be working in the industry to watch a freaking game and know that when Parros is in the line up, it hurts our team more than it helps it. 16GP 0pt -5 barely averaging 4min of ice time?? Ya, really freaking important to have let me tell you!

Enforcers were never brought in to make your team win. They used to be around to protect your players and so let the skilled players skate more freely, so ya you could make a correlation between having an enforcer and your skilled players performing better (therefore helping you win). Now, however, there are rules in place and the league has evolved. If someone looks at your captain, you cannot just drop the gloves and pound the crap out of him. Nobody is scared of hitting any Bruins player even if there's a crazy ass giant that will hunt you down for it. Heck, some skilled players even try to hit that neanderthal. Things have changed buddy, wake da fak up. Remove the rules set in place, and sure, their importance will rise again, but that's not today's reality.

GMs keep bringing in enforcers because that's the way things were before and everybody has one. But is their team worse without one?? Of course not, it's actually better, and they're usually only dressed when the opposing team dresses one. Shows you how ridiculous things are.
A guy like Prust or White? No issues. A pure enforcer that will play 3-4min? Useless.

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