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Darcy Regier seriously calling out the rest of the NHL

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Old
08-05-2005, 01:10 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan_27
Sour grapes is what I say. Maybe instead of having press conferences to whine about the teams signing these players, maybe they should be signing people.
Problem is Buffalo has no draw power. No one wants to play there.
Yeah,look at the Bills.I mean look at who they sign in FA...I mean Takeo Spikes,London Fletcher,Troy Vincent,Lawyer Milloy,Sam Adams,I mean those guys are just pro-bowlers.

Players aren't signing in Buffalo because Regier isn't really giving serious offers.My point about the Bills signing FA's just put your theory no one wants to play in Buffalo is out the window,because in the NFL there is a cap,and players want to play here,and money isn't the main sticking point usually.But on the flipside,who wants to play for the Chicago Bears?

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08-05-2005, 01:21 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
I think the key here is that Edmonton doesn't want to be. They want to be a playoff team, not a welfare recipient. Maybe they won't make the playoffs, but I commend them for trying. It sure as hell beats doing nothing, and crying "woe is me".
Edmonton has higher revenues than Buffalo.... Heck, everyone has higher revenues than Buffalo. What is good for Edmonton is not necessarily good for Buffalo. And while I think that no one in the Sabres organization wants to be 'on welfare' it makes the most sense right now to be so. Regier was not crying 'woe is me.' Listen to the press conference. He questioned the sanity of signing players to contracts of the size and lengths they are in a milieu this uncertain. He doesn't agree with it and thinks it will come back to bite them. That's it. Not one word of "Poor Buffalo." More like, "We're not going to be a part of that. That way leads to the death of this franchise."

Edmonton would have seen a lot lower drop off in revenue, percentage-wise, before the Peca and Pronger deals. Now? Their revenues will probably increase, regardless of the playoffs. Therefore, it makes sense for Kevin Lowe to make these deals. Payroll will be similar to what it was in 2003-04. But, now, his money buys a whole lot more. So, the timing is right for Kevin Lowe and co. to make that move. Regier does not think the timing is right for the Sabres. Period.

I'm not defending Regier here, but I do understand why he's doing things the way he's doing them. I may or may not agree, but, that's irrelevant to the analysis. Last I checked, I'm not a GM in the NHL, unlike some of the people who hang out here.

With Khabibulin gone to the Hawks, I expect Regier's phone to be ringing about one of his goalies. At that point he'll make another studied, careful move that, in his mind, will improve the Sabres chances of long-term success.

There are a lot of very passionate Sabres fans on this forum that are growing impatient, and it's completely understandable. Regier is a patient man, almost to a fault.

Ta,

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Old
08-05-2005, 02:06 PM
  #103
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joechip
His comments about the contracts being given out, I think, are geared more toward the 2nd tier ones than the top tier players...

Spacek @ $2.25
Dandenault @ $1.7
Zhamonv @ $4.0
Malik @ $2.5

Those are the ones that are going to get teams in real trouble, and tie their hands vis a vis their star players.
Oh, no argument. But they aren't just financial decisions, they are hockey decisions as well. A lot of teams (well, all the teams) will continue to make mistakes from time to time. Maybe they gave more than the player was worth, maybe they think more of the player than you (and I) do.

I'm scratching my head at these contracts as well. But apparently Dandenault says he was offered more money elsewhere. I don't even know if I'd offer him 1.7 in the old CBA.

What's clear cut in terms of talent isn't always that obvious. The Foote signing was really a great example of that. I happen to think the contract is GREAT for Columbus. My evaluation of the talent of Foote VS the money was very different from what others thought in the thread.

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08-05-2005, 02:27 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macman
Revenue-sharing isn't a bottomless pit and it isn't a cure-all for teams that were losing money hand over fist under the old system despite limited payrolls. Will a team like Edmonton fall into the bottom 15 payrolls and qualify for revenue-sharing this year with Pronger, Peca and maybe Kariya in the lineup? It's too early to say.

Maybe I read you wrong, but I understood you to say the cap system makes perfect sense.
What I'm saying is that the kind of moves we are seeing in the NHL right now are not really surprising. It's pretty much what I expected and makes sense to me. Yeah, I don't agree with all the signings. You've got your bargains, you've got your overpaid. But I don't see anything surprising.

I agree with you that revenue sharing is not a miracle cure, 100%! I just don't understand your surprise at seeing former "poor" markets jump in the pool and grab guys. The CBA makes this a logical next step.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Macman
I disagree and I didn't make up a non-issue to make my point. Under the cap, the maximum for a salary is 20 per cent for one person. The last time I checked a fifth is "almost a quarter."
The difference between a fifth and a quarter is still 7.8M, though

That's 15 players at the minimum salary. That's 7 players at $1,000,000, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macman
No, nobody is at the limit yet, but it will happen. Maybe not this year, but maybe next if guys like Thornton enter the mix. And with guys like Niedermayer and Pronger making more than $6 mil a season now, those salaries move closer to the max when the cap falls next year as it is expected.
Yeah, some guy is bound to get the max one day. I don't see it as bad. As for the cap falling, I dunno. Too early to say but I like where the NHL is going and think they can successfully bring back hockey to the level it was very quickly. But I am not an expert in such things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macman
I don't have a problem with great players making big money. I have a problem with good or even average players make $4 and $5 mil a season. We saw it with no cap and we're seeing it again with one.
How many such players signed for $4M and $5M. though? I think it's about a dozen and a couple of them I'd qualify as good signings while others I think received too much. I think it cancels out. Yeah, I wouldn't give Zhamnov that much money but I'd give Foote more to lure him!

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08-05-2005, 02:58 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmoneyflyguy
If there was an all star team for GM's this year, he'd be captain
Why? Because he overpaid for an aging, slow defenseman named Hatcher and lost three respectable forwards in LeClair, Roenick, and Amonte and he's allready over the cap less than a week after the signings began? Philly still won't win the cup this year, sorry to disappoint you.

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08-05-2005, 03:45 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
What's clear cut in terms of talent isn't always that obvious. The Foote signing was really a great example of that. I happen to think the contract is GREAT for Columbus. My evaluation of the talent of Foote VS the money was very different from what others thought in the thread.
Vlad, I'm with you on the Foote signing. He was worth $4.25 mil [i]to Columbus at that moment in time[i], obviously so, or they wouldn't have bought him. My opinion, as irrelevant as it may be, is that this is a great move for Columbus.

Value is a purely subjective thing. It is one of the great failings of managed economic systems to think that value can be assigned a particular number. Some of these decisions may turn out to be mistakes, as you say, and only time will tell.

Obviously, he wasn't worth that much to Darcy Regier or many of the posters here on HF. Their opinions, like mine, are irrelevant. Only percieved value as defined by the actions (buying a player) of those paying the prices are relevant. That's what determines the market. Regier is smart enough to know this, he is one of the shrewdest GM's in the league, sometimes to his team's detriment.

Ta,

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Old
08-05-2005, 03:57 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futurcorerock
Well it looks like we've found the first firing of the 2005-2006 season.

His hands must be numb from sitting on them all week. Does he realize the Sabres are reeling from a bankruptcy? Wonder why the Senators didn't go out and buy Peter Forsberg or Scott Niedermayer? The only FA's who are getting the big longterm deals are the best ones available.... OMG Peter Forsberg is making over 6 million. What a surprise!!! Oh wait, Pronger is an Oiler, i thought they were in trouble too.... The Bluejackets signed ADAM FOOTE for how much?!?!?!

He's going to have enough players left over in the next week or so to build a good team and on the Sabres' budget. It sounds like he just wants to complain because he can't find a better reason why he's such a terrible GM

Shut up Regier and swallow your pill. You make me sick


No He's exactly correct!!! All these Teams that were whining before are the ones signing and spending more now....It's a friggin Joke and Darcy is correct in saying that....

I applaud him for doing so ..... All these Teams will be riding the coat tails of the Major market teams......The ones who DESERVE to spend more because they have fan support......

This new CBA will not create a balanced NHL.....It'll just be different Teams dominating......


Personally I hate Bobby Clarke....However, what he has done has impressed me!!

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Old
08-05-2005, 04:14 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane
Yeah, and Dan McGillis is making $4.1 million, Vladimir Malakhov is making $3.6 million, Marek Malik is making $2.5 million. Those contracts are an absolute joke.
I totally agree that those contracts are a complete joke. HOWEVER, why isn't Regier HAPPY about this ??? I mean, $4.1M to Dan McGillis is horrid but it's also going to prevent Boston from signing another quality player...one that Regier may end up getting in the end. The playing field IS LEVEL NOW...so if his counterparts are making mistakes, he should laugh at them. They'll be stuck with these contracts...not him...so what's his problem ?

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08-05-2005, 04:15 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Platapie
Things will work themselves out, that's the great thing about a hard cap.

I must admit though it's really ironic to see all of these small market teams, which lambasted the bigger ones for giving up youth or paying too much for players in the past, do the EXACT same thing once they are capable of it. Amusing? Yes. A problem? Nah.
I can't blame the small market teams for experiencing a little gold fever at the
start of this cba, they couldn't even dream of signing some of these players
under the old cba. IMO its going to take several years for all teams to get
straightened out under the cap.

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Old
08-05-2005, 06:31 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Bob
Oh, OK. It's the city. Thanks for clarifying.
You lost me. Are you being condesending or agreeable?

You mentioned Edmonton signing Pronger to a contract, I noted that if they didnt do something like that, the whole frenzy would have ended with no significant improvement to the d-corps. Some dolts talk that Edmonton should have just signed Neids and not given up anyone, but Edmonton was down on his list of teams to sign with.

Cities like Edmonton and Columbus are not preferred destanations, compared to LA and NY, so they have to go a little further to entise talent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Bob
Yes, on occasion, it's entertaining to read posts from teenagers cooing over all of his posts, as if he's the holder of the mysteries of The Force, like an HF Boards Obi Wan Kenobi.
I dont know. I dont really pay all that much mind to who is posting. All I know is I read his post and it was more outside-the-box than 95% of people on here.

It just annoys me when people seem to think that signing free agents is as easy as pushing buttons on a video game controller (not directed at you).

If the Oilers waited for Neids, he would have hummed and hawed and most likely signed in Cali, the Oil would have missed out on all the other FAs while pursuing the brass ring, and ended up not improving their d, which was their weakest link.

Thats why signing Pronger was a terrific deal, thats why I respnded to your original post. Sorry about diverting from the Buffalo thread.

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Old
08-05-2005, 06:33 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
I agree with you that revenue sharing is not a miracle cure, 100%! I just don't understand your surprise at seeing former "poor" markets jump in the pool and grab guys. The CBA makes this a logical next step.
I'm not surprised at all by former small-market teams signing guys. Good for them. Foote was a great signing for Columbus. I am surprised, though, by the size and length of a lot of the contracts, including Pronger's. As good as he is, it's a lot of money over too long a duration for a small-market team, for a guy who has had his share of injuries, and under a cap system that will magnify every little financial mistake. Unless you win the Cup soon, paying one guy anywhere near 20 per cent of a team's cap has to come back to bite you in the ass and I don't see how it's going to be good for the game or the fans. I guess we'll see.

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Old
08-05-2005, 07:01 PM
  #112
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macman
I'm not surprised at all by former small-market teams signing guys. Good for them. Foote was a great signing for Columbus. I am surprised, though, by the size and length of a lot of the contracts, including Pronger's. As good as he is, it's a lot of money over too long a duration for a small-market team, for a guy who has had his share of injuries, and under a cap system that will magnify every little financial mistake. Unless you win the Cup soon, paying one guy anywhere near 20 per cent of a team's cap has to come back to bite you in the ass and I don't see how it's going to be good for the game or the fans. I guess we'll see.
Yeah, you'll see a variety of good and bad decisions. Even if you add a nice player, if he doesn't work well with your team , the decision can haunt you.

It's certainly not going to be good for that team. But league-wide, shouldn't have too many consequences, don't you think? The cap is set. Whoever makes a costly mistake is just clearing room for another team. Next year, out of all the teams that have the cap room, more will bid and outbid each others.

Obviously there will be market adjustments too. Right now there is not set price but over time, there should be one (unless there are wild fluctuations in yearly revenue for the league)

Personally, I like some of the signings and not others. Rutherford miraculously gets Stillman to play in Carolina (really not an attractive market) for 1.7. Not bad. Meanwhile Nashville gets a brand name in Kariya that basically does the same job as Stillman, is injury prone and commands three times as much. In a market that logically, is more attractive (just went in the playoffs, roster fairly intact)

I have mixed feelings about the Pronger contract, man. Yeah, I'm with you with the injury issues and all that. But he's Chris Pronger. It's really tempting to lock him up considering his unique bland of skills/size, his market value and his age.

To tell you the truth, I prefer this signing to Niedermayer's, although I'd respect someone who disagrees.

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08-05-2005, 07:26 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
It's certainly not going to be good for that team. But league-wide, shouldn't have too many consequences, don't you think? The cap is set. Whoever makes a costly mistake is just clearing room for another team. Next year, out of all the teams that have the cap room, more will bid and outbid each others. up considering his unique bland of skills/size, his market value and his age.
That's exactly my beef about a cap system. Teams become clearing houses. There is no continuity, no dynasties, no Yzermans and Lemieuxs playing their entire careers with one team, and a playing field that becomes so level we might never see another truly great team. I'm a traditionalist, I guess.

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08-05-2005, 07:29 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macman
That's exactly my beef about a cap system. Teams become clearing houses. There is no continuity, no dynasties, no Yzermans and Lemieuxs playing their entire careers with one team, and a playing field that becomes so level we might never see another truly great team. I'm a traditionalist, I guess.
No doubt. Continuity is dearly missed by myself but I kind of gave up on that over 10 years ago

I think tradition went in the crapper long before this new CBA. This is why I don't root for any team. The concept of a "team" barely exists compared to what it used to be 20 years ago.

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08-05-2005, 07:35 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
No doubt. Continuity is dearly missed by myself but I kind of gave up on that over 10 years ago

I think tradition went in the crapper long before this new CBA. This is why I don't root for any team. The concept of a "team" barely exists compared to what it used to be 20 years ago.
Bring back indentured servitude, I say. Screw free agency!

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08-05-2005, 07:39 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cawz
You mentioned Edmonton signing Pronger to a contract, I noted that if they didnt do something like that, the whole frenzy would have ended with no significant improvement to the d-corps. Some dolts talk that Edmonton should have just signed Neids and not given up anyone, but Edmonton was down on his list of teams to sign with.

......

If the Oilers waited for Neids, he would have hummed and hawed and most likely signed in Cali, the Oil would have missed out on all the other FAs while pursuing the brass ring, and ended up not improving their d, which was their weakest link.

Thats why signing Pronger was a terrific deal, thats why I respnded to your original post. Sorry about diverting from the Buffalo thread.
These subjects are being discussed in great detail here:

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.p...0&page=1&pp=15

The comments about Pronger in Edmonton were only two sentences. It was just questioning whether it was the right decision to sign him to that length of a contract, only a relatively short while after there was question if he career would even continue, due to his wrist injury. Risk does exist with this transaction.

To get him, they did give up Brewer, who is very good. Opinion is mixed on Woywitka, but he impressed me in a game for Manitoba against the Rochester Amerks. Admittedly, that's not much to base on, but he seemed to have more composure than most of the rest of the d-men (from both teams) on the ice. Dunno enough about the other guy to judge, but have heard some postive things.

Who knows how serious Niedermayer was about signing with Edmonton, Calgary or Vancouver? Yeah, any of them would've been closer to Cranbrook, but a good agent will attempt to entice the maximum potential suitors to increase the bidding ("14 teams have made offers!"). Maybe he preferred to play with his brother all along or re-sign just with the Devils, while still pocketing at least $6 mil/year. Who knows? Anaheim isn't exactly a day's drive to the hometown.

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08-05-2005, 09:36 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Bob
These subjects are being discussed in great detail here:

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.p...0&page=1&pp=15

The comments about Pronger in Edmonton were only two sentences. It was just questioning whether it was the right decision to sign him to that length of a contract, only a relatively short while after there was question if he career would even continue, due to his wrist injury. Risk does exist with this transaction.
Ya, that thread got annoying when I looked at it last night. maybe it got better today.

As an Oiler fan, ya the length of the contract is a concern. Any long contract should be. Stability sometimes leads to complacancy, health is alway an issue, signing someone for that long who hasn't played a game for you yet is questionable...

But if the choice is between risking 5 years on arguably the best defenseman in the world, or risking going into the season with the same sad defense as the previous year, I'll take the former.

Oilers (and Columbus) needed help on defense. They could have waited to see what the market was going to do, or take the bull by the balls and make a deal that works for them regardless of what others are paying. Good on em for having bull balls.

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08-05-2005, 09:44 PM
  #118
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I'm almost forced to believe that the Sabres will be the worst team in the East this year. This is a franchise, despite having a good farm, that just can't get it together.

He seems to be more frustrated with his own inaction that upset with others. Edmonton has made some big moves all the while commiting to $28 million in salaries. There is no reason Buffalo couldn't have done the same thing.

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08-06-2005, 12:27 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE
I'm almost forced to believe that the Sabres will be the worst team in the East this year. This is a franchise, despite having a good farm, that just can't get it together.
Taken a look at the Hurricanes or Capitals roster lately?

Quote:
His comments about the contracts being given out, I think, are geared more toward the 2nd tier ones than the top tier players...

Spacek @ $2.25
Dandenault @ $1.7
Zhamonv @ $4.0
Malik @ $2.5

Those are the ones that are going to get teams in real trouble, and tie their hands vis a vis their star players.
Agreed...somewhat. Like Vlad said, those players are percieved to be worth those amounts by the teams that signed them, not you or I. Wouldn't be surprised if a player like Zhamnov ends up being worth every penny of that for the Bruins.

Anyhoot, this thread has been a strange trip. No one really knows how this will all work out. The one thing that bothers me is the simple fact some are over reacting. Ponder this:

1. Maybe some small markets feel now that it will only take one or two decent FA signings to make them more competitive in the new NHL.
2. Maybe some teams are just waiting to see how some teams cap issues resolves. Looks like Anaheim will be willing to make some sweet deals already.
3. The FA market is dictating some of the spending.
4. With a year off from hockey, alot of the fans want some of this spending.
5. If you actually look at the deals, these guys would have probably garnered so much more via the old system and they would have been signed by the usual suspects.
6. Revenue sharing won't save teams. Let's be honest. So why are some people like to throw the fact they will receive a "welfare check" in anyone's face? I never see these sort of complaints in other sports.

So far, I'm not really bothered by what's going on. Darcy Reiger may have a point, but then again he may be dead wrong. How are we to know? I want to see how this works out long-term, maybe by the summer of 2007.


Last edited by HughJass*: 08-06-2005 at 12:34 AM.
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