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Is EDM a better team than us, now that they have Pronger and Peca?

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08-05-2005, 09:46 AM
  #51
Hunter74
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Originally Posted by OilerOlli
The new rules sure play in the hand of Edmonton!
I think they play in the hand of the FLames who have a very fast skating team aswell. Only Simon, Wiemer and McCarty are slow skaters while everyoen else is either extremly fast or just above average.

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08-05-2005, 10:21 AM
  #52
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Before Edmonton added Pronger and Peca it would have been convincingly in Calgay's favour. All that did was close the gap. I would say neck and neck now.

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08-05-2005, 10:27 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanlambert
i forgot how many cups conklin won with... umm.. oh.

and you're right about wishing we had veteran presence like smith on the blue line. if only we had someone like rhett warrener. man, that'd be sweet

hey how'd the playoffs look on TV, btw?
How'd the playoffs look on TV the last 5 years before you finally made it last year? I give the Flames credit for a nice run last year and I will admit even I was rooting for them, but last time I checked you can finish 2nd or 30th and you still haven't won anything.

Let's stop the bickering and wait and see how it plays out this year!

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08-05-2005, 11:06 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by ryanlambert
i forgot how many cups conklin won with... umm.. oh.

and you're right about wishing we had veteran presence like smith on the blue line. if only we had someone like rhett warrener. man, that'd be sweet

hey how'd the playoffs look on TV, btw?
Playoffs looked just the same as before, flames losing in the finals.

Oh, Conklin's won just as many cups as Kipru-who.

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08-05-2005, 11:09 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanlambert
hey do you guys still have conklin? cuz we've only got this miikka kiprusoff guy.
Really, ... when did he sign?

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08-05-2005, 11:09 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Hunter74
.

Lets just comapre the lineups that they currently have.

Flames

Amonte/Lankow/Iginla
Reinprecht/Lombardi/Kobasew
Simon/Yelle/Donovan
Nilson/Wiemer/McCarty

Regehr/Leopold
Lydman/Warrener
Phaneuf/Ference

Kiprusoff
Krahn

Spares: Ritchie, Montador

Oilers

Smyth/Peca/Hemsky
Torres/Horcoff/Dvorak
Moreau/Chimera/Laraque
Pisani/Stoll/Harvey

Pronger/Staio
Bergeron/Smith
Semenov/Cross

Conklin
Markkenen

Spares: Reasoner, Ulanov



Chimera??

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08-05-2005, 11:32 AM
  #57
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Is the a HF board for flame and oiler fans that act their age, or will I have to write on this one. First I am a big believer in the what have you done lately adage, so in that context calgary is the better team. I do want to point out edmonton has had moderate success for a small market team in the past 6-7 years as calgary has only made it in once. BUt as of last game played, calgary is better. Let's take a look at depth here.

Amonte vs Smyth - Amonte is more of a pure goal scorer and a sniper, Smyth scores but adds a lot of grit and leadership, I would take Smyth.

Lankow vs Peca - Lankow may have more offensive side but Peca is close, but with all the intangibles that Peca brings along with the best defensive forward in the league (Edmonton answer to Iginla) I take Peca

Iginla vs Hemsky - Hemsky shows glimpses of excellence and that he can be a 60 point getter, Iginla is the best player in the league, apples and oranges - Iginla 100 times over.

Rienprecht vs Torres - Rienprecht only played half the season and put up alright numbers, he is a legit second liner in the league and has a lot of up side. But Torres scored 20 goals in his rookie season, he hits like crazy and has a lot of speed. He is an agitator and a scorer, I would expect 25 goals out of him, but more then that he is a momentum guy and is a great young player, I take Torres.

Lombardi vs Horcoff - Both young players in the NHL and both have tremendous up side. Horcoff put up 40 points last NHL season and finished second in SEL scoring during the lock out, Lombardi is younger and may achieve his numbers soon, but for the next couple season I am taking Horcoff.

Kobasew vs Dvorak - D Vo scored 50 points and was +18, Kobasew scored 17 points and was - 12. In a few years this could change, but for now, Dvo is a polished NHLer that is a great second liner. I take D Vo

Third lines - I give this to edmonton, Laraque is on the fourth and we haven't seen Chimera in a couple years. Moreau - Reasoner - Harvey.

Fourth Lines - I give the edge to Calgary for their experience (and recent acquisition of McCarty)

Defense -

Pronger, Staios vs Regher Leopold - Oilers take it
Smith, Greene vs Lydman, Warrener - This is dead even, Smith is under rated and if Green plays well he can be as good as Lydman, I give the edge to calgary.
Phanuef, Ference vs Semenov, Ulinov - Surprisingly close, but it is calgarys win.

Goaltending goes to Calgary.

This is all my opinion and I am sure some of you will jump out of your skin because you disagree with me, but this is how I see it. Over all I think Edmonton has more offensive depth but by not having the go to guy, Iginla alone is a huge advantage. Defense favours calgary because of Phaneuf and elevated play of a couple others, but it is closer then most think. Calgary played as a team all year last year and worked way harder then edmonton did, they were consistent and looked good together, if edmonton worked as hard as calgary then I think edmonton could be a better team, for now I take Calgary, but I can't wait to watch the BOA's this year.

I also want to say that both these GM's are great guys and have done a lot for their hockey clubs and with out a doubt, a road trip and back to back games against edmonton then calgary will be the worst trip in the league for any team. I hope to see us both in the top 4 this year in the west, best of luck to you Calgary and I can't wait to watch the first BOA.

P.S. Sorry about the novel. And one more note, who knows how players will react to not playing in a year. They have never done that before.


Last edited by rigger: 08-05-2005 at 11:37 AM.
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08-05-2005, 12:05 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilersTitansFan
Kipru-WHO?
He's won nothing. Bring it on.

Mikka = next Giguere and Kevin Weekes = one hit wonder
I 'd like to correct you
Kipper= NEXT HASEK It's possible, I have faith in the guy

Quote:
Originally Posted by OilersTitansFan
Playoffs looked just the same as before, flames losing in the finals.

Oh, Conklin's won just as many cups as Kipru-who.
When the oilers accomplish something with the team they have, then you can start running your mouth. Who is this guy anyway?

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08-05-2005, 12:23 PM
  #59
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i think jussi markkanen will surprise a lot of people next year

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08-05-2005, 12:47 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by glimradnor
Chimera??
Chimera plays for Phoenix.

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08-05-2005, 01:08 PM
  #61
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I love how Calgary finished 5 points ahead of Edmonton, and someone in the first page says 'Edmonton's just Pronger and Peca with an AHL team'...
I guess Calgary's 2 wins and a tie better than that AHL team last year..

IMO, Conroy and Langkow are equal until proven otherwise.
All they have is the addition of a has-been, whose in his mid to late 30s and score 20 goals tops, as well as a gritty guy ala Ethan Moreau.

Apparently this puts them lightyears ahead of a team who just gained a Hart-Norris Trophy winner and a 2-time Selke winner.

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Old
08-05-2005, 01:23 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by rigger
Is the a HF board for flame and oiler fans that act their age, or will I have to write on this one. First I am a big believer in the what have you done lately adage, so in that context calgary is the better team. I do want to point out edmonton has had moderate success for a small market team in the past 6-7 years as calgary has only made it in once. BUt as of last game played, calgary is better. Let's take a look at depth here.

Amonte vs Smyth - Amonte is more of a pure goal scorer and a sniper, Smyth scores but adds a lot of grit and leadership, I would take Smyth.

Lankow vs Peca - Lankow may have more offensive side but Peca is close, but with all the intangibles that Peca brings along with the best defensive forward in the league (Edmonton answer to Iginla) I take Peca

Iginla vs Hemsky - Hemsky shows glimpses of excellence and that he can be a 60 point getter, Iginla is the best player in the league, apples and oranges - Iginla 100 times over.

Rienprecht vs Torres - Rienprecht only played half the season and put up alright numbers, he is a legit second liner in the league and has a lot of up side. But Torres scored 20 goals in his rookie season, he hits like crazy and has a lot of speed. He is an agitator and a scorer, I would expect 25 goals out of him, but more then that he is a momentum guy and is a great young player, I take Torres.

Lombardi vs Horcoff - Both young players in the NHL and both have tremendous up side. Horcoff put up 40 points last NHL season and finished second in SEL scoring during the lock out, Lombardi is younger and may achieve his numbers soon, but for the next couple season I am taking Horcoff.

Kobasew vs Dvorak - D Vo scored 50 points and was +18, Kobasew scored 17 points and was - 12. In a few years this could change, but for now, Dvo is a polished NHLer that is a great second liner. I take D Vo

Third lines - I give this to edmonton, Laraque is on the fourth and we haven't seen Chimera in a couple years. Moreau - Reasoner - Harvey.

Fourth Lines - I give the edge to Calgary for their experience (and recent acquisition of McCarty)

Defense -

Pronger, Staios vs Regher Leopold - Oilers take it
Smith, Greene vs Lydman, Warrener - This is dead even, Smith is under rated and if Green plays well he can be as good as Lydman, I give the edge to calgary.
Phanuef, Ference vs Semenov, Ulinov - Surprisingly close, but it is calgarys win.

Goaltending goes to Calgary.

This is all my opinion and I am sure some of you will jump out of your skin because you disagree with me, but this is how I see it. Over all I think Edmonton has more offensive depth but by not having the go to guy, Iginla alone is a huge advantage. Defense favours calgary because of Phaneuf and elevated play of a couple others, but it is closer then most think. Calgary played as a team all year last year and worked way harder then edmonton did, they were consistent and looked good together, if edmonton worked as hard as calgary then I think edmonton could be a better team, for now I take Calgary, but I can't wait to watch the BOA's this year.

I also want to say that both these GM's are great guys and have done a lot for their hockey clubs and with out a doubt, a road trip and back to back games against edmonton then calgary will be the worst trip in the league for any team. I hope to see us both in the top 4 this year in the west, best of luck to you Calgary and I can't wait to watch the first BOA.

P.S. Sorry about the novel. And one more note, who knows how players will react to not playing in a year. They have never done that before.
I'm not going to say Calgary is better than Edmonton (I already expressed my thoughts earlier), but the way you ranked the forwards is absolute garbage. It's about the group as a whole, not taking each forward and comparing them against another. Watch this.

Iginla > Smyth (I love Smyth, but Iginla's arguably the best player in the game)
Langkow >= Peca. (Langkow being younger and better suited for being the #1 center)
Amonte > Dvorak (Amonte having put up 8 straight 20 goal campaigns)
Reinprecht > Torres (Reinprecht has more experience and led the French league in scoring and was the MVP. Torres still has to prove he can bring it on a daily basis)
Hemsky>= Kobasew (Hemsky is more proven thus far, but Kobasew lit it up in the AHL this year. Slight edge to Hemsky)
Horcoff >= Lombardi (Horcoff put up more points last year, but Lombardi has better upside)

So, if you spin it like that Calgary's top 4 forwards are better than Edmonton's. Now i'm not sure how the production of each team's top 6 will look this year, but the point is you need to look at the group as a whole, otherwise you're going to get a biased view of things.

Same goes with the defence. You can spin that however you want too. Granted, Pronger is the best d-man on either clubs...

Point is, that was a really convienient way of looking at things. I do like what Edmonton has done though, they are a much better club than they were 4 days ago.

EDIT: Doesn't it concern you in the least bit that you have Matt Greene slotted in as a top 4 guy? The guy is a rookie yet he is comparable to Toni Lydman? C'mon man, that's a bit unreasonable, no?

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08-05-2005, 01:42 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMA
EDIT: Doesn't it concern you in the least bit that you have Matt Greene slotted in as a top 4 guy? The guy is a rookie yet he is comparable to Toni Lydman? C'mon man, that's a bit unreasonable, no?
With today's signing of Ulanov, the Oilers D will most likely be Pronger, Smith, Staios, Semenov, Bergeron, and Ulanov, with Cross as our #7 guy. If Greene doesn't return to college, he'll probably be going to the AHL for a year of seasoning.

I'm sure some of you will be snickering about Ulanov, but the guy has been great for the Oilers and he should be fine as a 3rd pairing guy who can take a bigger role if one of the young guys struggle. He's been good for Semenov, although I wouldn't mind seeing Pronger play with Semenov to be a mentor or role model or something like that.

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08-05-2005, 01:46 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie
With today's signing of Ulanov, the Oilers D will most likely be Pronger, Smith, Staios, Semenov, Bergeron, and Ulanov, with Cross as our #7 guy. If Greene doesn't return to college, he'll probably be going to the AHL for a year of seasoning.

I'm sure some of you will be snickering about Ulanov, but the guy has been great for the Oilers and he should be fine as a 3rd pairing guy who can take a bigger role if one of the young guys struggle. He's been good for Semenov, although I wouldn't mind seeing Pronger play with Semenov to be a mentor or role model or something like that.
Fair enough. I think it was just the Lydman - Greene comparison that caught me off guard.

Like I said, I like what the Oilers have done. But I still think there are still issues that need to be adressed. Another top 6 forward (a center..) would probably be good. Another guy that can play top 4 minutes to shore up that defence. And I know you guys are really high on Conklin up north, but I'm a little unsure about him. It could be that I haven't seen enough of him though....

But it's a better club no doubt. Looks like a team that *should* be playoff bound.

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08-05-2005, 01:51 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Rakiet
I 'd like to correct you
Kipper= NEXT HASEK It's possible, I have faith in the guy


When the oilers accomplish something with the team they have, then you can start running your mouth. Who is this guy anyway?

Kipper = Next Hasek? Sure he is. Enough said, go back to your coke joint.

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08-05-2005, 02:09 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by slats432
Chimera plays for Phoenix.
Sorry I must of forgot he was moved and when I checked there roster he was still on it. The Oilers official site is not showing a roster so I had to use TSN's and they are obvioulsy not that interested in hockey these days.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/roster.a...ame=nhl-oilers

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08-05-2005, 02:10 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Bergeron47
I love how Calgary finished 5 points ahead of Edmonton, and someone in the first page says 'Edmonton's just Pronger and Peca with an AHL team'...
I guess Calgary's 2 wins and a tie better than that AHL team last year..
An AHL team who got Nedved for a late season stretch

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08-05-2005, 02:13 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMA
Fair enough. I think it was just the Lydman - Greene comparison that caught me off guard.
understandably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMA
Like I said, I like what the Oilers have done. But I still think there are still issues that need to be adressed. Another top 6 forward (a center..) would probably be good.
Wouldn't hurt. There's some question marks, for sure: Peca rebounding; Horcoff continuing to improve; Hemsky making progress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMA
Another guy that can play top 4 minutes to shore up that defence.
Not too worried about this one. I'm pretty confident in Semenov. He's coming along pretty well. Physically he's a horse, and he'll be paired with a veteran. He can play 20 minutes a game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMA
And I know you guys are really high on Conklin up north, but I'm a little unsure about him. It could be that I haven't seen enough of him though....
I'm not 100% sure about Conklin either, but I do know he's better than Salo. I'm actually more confident in Markkanen, and I think by the end of the season he'll be the Oilers' #1 guy. I think Markkanen is pretty underrated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMA
But it's a better club no doubt. Looks like a team that *should* be playoff bound.
I'm hoping. This should be a great time to be a hockey fan in Alberta. Remember when teams used to call a road trip through Alberta "Death Valley"? Remember when Oilers-Flames games meant something? It's been a while. It seems like it's about 15 years since both of these teams have been good at the same time. I hope that's where we're headed again. It'll be like the good old days again.

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08-05-2005, 02:22 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMA
I'm not going to say Calgary is better than Edmonton (I already expressed my thoughts earlier), but the way you ranked the forwards is absolute garbage. It's about the group as a whole, not taking each forward and comparing them against another. Watch this.
Quote:
Iginla > Smyth (I love Smyth, but Iginla's arguably the best player in the game)
No disagreements here. This one is pretty obvious.

Quote:
Langkow >= Peca. (Langkow being younger and better suited for being the #1 center)
Here's where it gets dicey. In this one, Langkow is better because he is younger, but lower Reinprecht is better because he has more experience... I can't follow that.

Langkow and Peca had very similar roles on their respective former teams. The main difference is that Langkow had better PP time with better players. That's about the extent of their scoring differences. ES they are a wash. PK Peca is one of the better players in the league, so for me it's:

Peca >= Langkow.

[quote]Amonte > Dvorak (Amonte having put up 8 straight 20 goal campaigns)[quote]

Power play wise, definitely. 5 on 5 not so much. Amonte ahead on the PP, but Dvorak is better 5 on 5 and on the PK.

Amonte >= Dvorak.

Quote:
Reinprecht > Torres (Reinprecht has more experience and led the French league in scoring and was the MVP. Torres still has to prove he can bring it on a daily basis)
French league in scoring? The only problem with Rhino is that he is always hurt. Torres for 80 games >>> Reinprecht for 45-50.

Reinprecht >= Torres

Quote:
Hemsky>= Kobasew (Hemsky is more proven thus far, but Kobasew lit it up in the AHL this year. Slight edge to Hemsky)
Hemsky was also the MVP of the Czech League's playoffs, plus he won a spot on their gold medal winning world championship team ahead of Marian Hossa. I mean if Reinprecht's French league feats are so impressive, what does that make Hemsky's?

Hemsky > Kobasew.

Quote:
Horcoff >= Lombardi (Horcoff put up more points last year, but Lombardi has better upside)
Upside isn't really the point. Horcoff and Smyth always drew the tough matchups and Horcoff was very good for the Oilers, outside his hip injury early in the season which really hampered him.

Horcoff > Lombardi

Quote:
So, if you spin it like that Calgary's top 4 forwards are better than Edmonton's. Now i'm not sure how the production of each team's top 6 will look this year, but the point is you need to look at the group as a whole, otherwise you're going to get a biased view of things.
Again, it depends on your criteria. One player is better because he's younger, the other because he has more experience?

Not very consistant. The other fact is that the Oilers will roll 4 lines, and their 3rd line of Moreau-Reasoner-Pisani is another line that does nothing but get results. Heck, even their 4th lines come out on top against other 3rd/4th lines in the NHL.

Quote:
Same goes with the defence. You can spin that however you want too. Granted, Pronger is the best d-man on either clubs...
I think they are a lot closer than most people think on defense. Pronger, Smith, Staois is a very good top 3 (based on outscoring results), while Cross and Ulanov have been very good for the Oilers as well. The two young guys in Semeonv and Bergeron have been very effective when paired with the right guy (Ulanov in both cases, but Pronger will help them out as well).

Goaltending is by far the biggest difference between the 2 clubs. Conklin/Markkanen provide about league average goaltending, while Kipper provided top of the league goaltending.

Calgary will benefit from their moves and having Kipper full time (even if he doesn't put up insane numbers like he did).

The Oilers will be a better 5 on 5 team (top 5 in the league last year), and better on special teams (really bad there last year).

It's going to be a fun 8 games...

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08-05-2005, 02:37 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by dawgbone

Again, it depends on your criteria. One player is better because he's younger, the other because he has more experience?
That was my exact point. The poster who I was replying to didn't have any fixed criteria either. He took players at his own will and compared them to other players with out any real criteria to evaluate them on. You can take those players and make evaluations on them and justify them any way you want. Plus when you have an Oiler fan comparing a Calgary roster to an Oiler roster there's going to be some bias as you will probably hedge towards your players a bit, no? (Nothing wrong with that.. its' the nature of sports... I'd probably do the same thing!!)

Personally, I think the top 6 forwards on each team are pretty similar. I'd say Calgary has 4 legit top 6 players (Iginla, Langkow, Amonte and Reinprecht) while Edmonton has 3 (Smyth, Peca and Dvorak). So based on that I'd say that Calgary has more of an edge, BUT Edmonton has 3 youngsters that could very well sway it in their direction in Hemsky, Torres and Horcoff. Calgary has two in Kobasew and Lombardi.

Is that better? Calgary might have a more secure top 6 but Edmonton's has the potential to ice a better top 6 if they can get good production out of their youngsters?

As for the defence, I'm convinced that Calgary has one of the best crews in the eintire league. Call me biased, but I don't think many clubs can touch Regehr, Leopold, Lydman, Warrener, Ference and Phaneuf.

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08-05-2005, 02:51 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Bergeron47
I love how Calgary finished 5 points ahead of Edmonton, and someone in the first page says 'Edmonton's just Pronger and Peca with an AHL team'...
I guess Calgary's 2 wins and a tie better than that AHL team last year..

IMO, Conroy and Langkow are equal until proven otherwise.
All they have is the addition of a has-been, whose in his mid to late 30s and score 20 goals tops, as well as a gritty guy ala Ethan Moreau.

Apparently this puts them lightyears ahead of a team who just gained a Hart-Norris Trophy winner and a 2-time Selke winner.

First off the comment about the Oilers being an AHL team is obvioulsy just to make some people mad. So lets not wear our keyboards out over that.

You are right we only finished 5pts ahead of you guys. But that doesn't give any real insight on how closly these two clubs are matched. The Flames out performed your team despite being severly handicapped by multiple injuries to key players over teh season and the only reason teh Oilers even got close to us in the standings is b/c were given Nedved for vitually nothing by Sather(trade should of been shot down by the NHL but i wont complain to much since we got a pretty good deal on Simon aswell).

But it doesn't matter how you accomplished what you did the fact of teh matter is you were only 5pts out right. So i wont bother wiht that.

Comparisons This upcoming season.

Forwards- Flames Win - Flames have the best forward out of the group which ultimatly gives them the edge in a rather close contest. Each teams group of forwards have different strengths with the Oilers being more offensive and the Flames being more defensive. The Oilers offense from ther forwards at first glance seems to be more spread out but the Flames have 6 players who scored 15+ goals while the Oilers have 8. Not much of a difference. Now with the subtration of York and the addition of Peca it strengthens the Oilers forward groups overall game and leadsership but does not improve on there offense or there need for a suitable #1 center who can put up points. The Flames on the other hand have improved there forward group by adding Amonte who is a slight improvement on Gelinas and McCarty who is another improvement on Clark.

Defense - Flames Win - Even thought the Oilers have the best defenseman out of the two teams the Oilers lack of quality depth and the Flames abundance of very good defenseman makes up for this. As a whole teh Flames boast Regehr, Leopold, Lydman, Warrener, Ference and Montador with Phaneuf looking to play in the NHL this season. While the Oilers have Pronger, Staois(how overrated can someon be?), Smith, Bergeron, Semenov, Ulanov and Cross. Pronger is a great defenseman but you need more than 2 above average defenseman and a youngster with potential sprinkled with some veteran journey men. If the Oilers Bergeron and Semenov can take large steps forward this year they will be able to possible over take Calgary's defense core in overal quality. Calgary's core is just to good at what they do and there depth is right up there with the best in the league. 1 star defenseman and some 3rd pairing guys doesn't catapoult a team taht far.

Pronger/Staios greater than Regehr/Leopold
Smith/Bergeron less than Warrener/Lydman
Semenov/Ulanov less than Ference/Phaneuf or even Montador
Only 2 of the Oilers defenseman would be considered to have upward potnetial while 5 of the Flames woudl still be considered to upward potential.

Goaltending - Flames win easily - Yes Kipper needs to prove himself over a full seaosn but so does Conklin. Kippers accomplishments and performacen over hte past 2 years speaks for itself I would assume.

Coaching - Flames easily again - Even Oilers fans dont like MacT.

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08-05-2005, 02:54 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMA
I'm not going to say Calgary is better than Edmonton (I already expressed my thoughts earlier), but the way you ranked the forwards is absolute garbage. It's about the group as a whole, not taking each forward and comparing them against another. Watch this.

Iginla > Smyth (I love Smyth, but Iginla's arguably the best player in the game)
Langkow >= Peca. (Langkow being younger and better suited for being the #1 center)
Amonte > Dvorak (Amonte having put up 8 straight 20 goal campaigns)
Reinprecht > Torres (Reinprecht has more experience and led the French league in scoring and was the MVP. Torres still has to prove he can bring it on a daily basis)
Hemsky>= Kobasew (Hemsky is more proven thus far, but Kobasew lit it up in the AHL this year. Slight edge to Hemsky)
Horcoff >= Lombardi (Horcoff put up more points last year, but Lombardi has better upside)

So, if you spin it like that Calgary's top 4 forwards are better than Edmonton's. Now i'm not sure how the production of each team's top 6 will look this year, but the point is you need to look at the group as a whole, otherwise you're going to get a biased view of things.

Same goes with the defence. You can spin that however you want too. Granted, Pronger is the best d-man on either clubs...

Point is, that was a really convienient way of looking at things. I do like what Edmonton has done though, they are a much better club than they were 4 days ago.

EDIT: Doesn't it concern you in the least bit that you have Matt Greene slotted in as a top 4 guy? The guy is a rookie yet he is comparable to Toni Lydman? C'mon man, that's a bit unreasonable, no?

I agree dog. Good comparisons btw.



OFFENSE: CALGARY - MORE DEPTH AND MORE PROVEN
DEFENSE: CALGARY - TOP 5 D IN THE NHL, CANT SAY SAME FOR OILERS, AGAIN DEPTH.
GOAL-BALANCE EDM, BUT OVERALL CGY. KIPPER IS ON THE RISE.
COACHING: CALGARY

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08-05-2005, 02:56 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by OMA
I'm convinced that Calgary has one of the best crews in the eintire league. Call me biased, but I don't think many clubs can touch Regehr, Leopold, Lydman, Warrener, Ference and Phaneuf.

I agree. id rather have Cgys insane depth on D than Edms "one" superstar and the rest considerably lower than him. Ulanov? who cares if they Oil re-signed him. he wouldnt even crack the flames lineup.

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08-05-2005, 03:15 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBear
I agree. id rather have Cgys insane depth on D than Edms "one" superstar and the rest considerably lower than him. Ulanov? who cares if they Oil re-signed him. he wouldnt even crack the flames lineup.
Do you have any actual clue about what you are talking about, or do you just like to ramble?

Pronger > Regehr... no questions.
Smith = Lydman... Lydman brings a touch more offense, Smith brings more physical play.
Warrener = Staois... Very comparable defencemen
Leopold > Bergeron... Both can put up points, but Leopold is the better defenceman
Ulanov > Montador... wouldn't crack the lineup my ass...
Semenov = Phaneuf... here comes the flak... but here me out. For whatever potential Phaneuf has, he hasn't done it agaisnt an NHL player. Semenov has 90 NHL games under his belt by the age of 24 (Which is above average). This is not potential, this is talking about this upcoming season.

To be honest, these defenses stack up rather well...

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08-05-2005, 03:30 PM
  #75
OMA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Do you have any actual clue about what you are talking about, or do you just like to ramble?

Pronger > Regehr... no questions.
Smith = Lydman... Lydman brings a touch more offense, Smith brings more physical play.
Warrener = Staois... Very comparable defencemen
Leopold > Bergeron... Both can put up points, but Leopold is the better defenceman
Ulanov > Montador... wouldn't crack the lineup my ass...
Semenov = Phaneuf... here comes the flak... but here me out. For whatever potential Phaneuf has, he hasn't done it agaisnt an NHL player. Semenov has 90 NHL games under his belt by the age of 24 (Which is above average). This is not potential, this is talking about this upcoming season.

To be honest, these defenses stack up rather well...
Pronger > Regehr (No argument here.. Pronger might be the best in the league)

Leopold >= Smith. Smith is a better shutdown defender, but personally I think that Leopold's a better overall d-man.

Lydman >= Staios. Again Staios is a good defensive defenceman with some offensive upside (he actually outscored Lydman this year due to Lydman's injuries) but Lydman plays a better overall game.

Warraner > Ulanov. Ulanov is a guy that can play top 4 minutes if need be. Warraner is a 2nd pair d-man right now. Like you said... comparable to Staios

Ference > Semenov. Ference is a year and a half older and has a 150 more games to his credit. Semenov likely has higher upside, but "This is not potential, this is talking about this upcoming season."

Phaneuf = Bergeron. We'll keep this equal for arguments sake. Bergeron has NHL experience. Phaneuf is considered the best d-man not playing in the NHL.

So here's my point. When you compared players you had 2 Oiler players better than Calgary defender, one Calgary player better than an Edmonton defender and three comparables. I've got 3-4 Calgary players that are better (Give or take on Leopold and Smith), 1 Oiler defenceman and a tie.

And yet it's the exact six same d-men that will start on the opening day roster.... Gotta look at the players as a whole.. not individually. Edmonton has the best d-man no doubt... but Calgary looks to have more depth (for this year anyway.. I know that Edmonton has d prospects in the system)

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