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Rick Nash: Proving his doubters wrong

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Old
01-20-2014, 03:40 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by The Perfect Paradox View Post
He's been injured twice this year, one of which was a concussion that left him out for a while in the beginning of the season. While making Team Canada may have given him a confidence boost, that is really only part of the story.

Injuries, especially concussions, are detrimental to a player maintaining a level of consistent high play throughout a full season. Considering Nash suffered a concussion at the beginning of the season (and not to mention under a totally different coaching philosophy), the fact that it took him this long to play to the level we know he is capable of is hardly a surprise.
Or he's riding a hot streak, something that occurs a few dozen times a year in the NHL and results in exactly the same number of main board threads on HFB.

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01-20-2014, 03:58 PM
  #77
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Again, CBJ fan here to say that Nash ALWAYS goes on a hot streak before the Olympics.

He then ALWAYS tapers off after.

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01-20-2014, 04:02 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
Everyone truly enjoyed kicking this guy while he was down (and I agree leaving Martin St. Louis off the roster is a complete travesty) but ever since he was named to the Men's Canadian Olympic Team he was been on fire!

The timeline:
-On January 7th he was named to the Canadian Olympic Team.

-Since then he has scored 5 goals (7 games) which include 4 GWG in his last 6 games! During this span the New York Rangers have gone 6-1-0 and have distanced themselves from the mess that is the Eastern Conference playoff race.

As a huge fan of Team Canada it's good to see Rick Nash find his game leading into the games.. Here's to hoping he continues proving his doubters wrong and helps us win Olympic Gold!
consistency has always been a problem for rick and I think many will look at his career and say man he could have been much better.

that's the perception that seems to follow him around.

I would have taken MSL at this time although rick has always answered the call for playing for Canada and loyalty will be rewarded.

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01-20-2014, 04:17 PM
  #79
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Let's hope he isn't on the ice against Ovechkin at the Olympics


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01-20-2014, 05:04 PM
  #80
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Again, CBJ fan here to say that Nash ALWAYS goes on a hot streak before the Olympics.

He then ALWAYS tapers off after.
hes been to 2 olympics. in 2010 he had 10 points in 13 games following the olympics. in 2006 he had 26 points in 24 games following the olympics. what are you talking about?

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01-20-2014, 05:14 PM
  #81
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Let's hope he isn't on the ice against Ovechkin at the Olympics
Why he scored a sweet goal with Ovie on the ice last night...he's no dman

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01-20-2014, 06:32 PM
  #82
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it's hard not to get hype about this guy when you see him play. He's got size, strength, speed, stick handling, shot, hands... just all so impressive. can't seem to put it together though. except when he plays for Canada. always seems to be a beast in red.

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01-20-2014, 06:39 PM
  #83
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Nash has the exact same physical tools as Mario Lemieux. Same frame, same build, similar hands (Lemieux's obviously better), same deceptively fast skating stride and dangling abilities. If Nash had even 1/10 the vision of Lemieux, he'd be right up their with Crosby and Malkin as one of the best in the world. A perfect example of a player relying purely on physical gifts--such as height, stride, overall frame--and cashing in a huge cheque because of it. If I were a casual hockey fan and I seen Nash for the first time pulling off some of the driving to the net plays he seldom uses, I would have thought him to be one of the absolute best players in the world.

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01-20-2014, 06:56 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by goolia View Post
Nash has the exact same physical tools as Mario Lemieux. Same frame, same build, similar hands (Lemieux's obviously better), same deceptively fast skating stride and dangling abilities. If Nash had even 1/10 the vision of Lemieux, he'd be right up their with Crosby and Malkin as one of the best in the world. A perfect example of a player relying purely on physical gifts--such as height, stride, overall frame--and cashing in a huge cheque because of it. If I were a casual hockey fan and I seen Nash for the first time pulling off some of the driving to the net plays he seldom uses, I would have thought him to be one of the absolute best players in the world.
Imagine Crosby on a 6'4 225lbs frame.

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01-20-2014, 06:57 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by meenamjah View Post
it's hard not to get hype about this guy when you see him play. He's got size, strength, speed, stick handling, shot, hands... just all so impressive. can't seem to put it together though. except when he plays for Canada. always seems to be a beast in red.
maybe blues just not his color

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01-20-2014, 06:59 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by goolia View Post
Nash has the exact same physical tools as Mario Lemieux. Same frame, same build, similar hands (Lemieux's obviously better), same deceptively fast skating stride and dangling abilities. If Nash had even 1/10 the vision of Lemieux, he'd be right up their with Crosby and Malkin as one of the best in the world. A perfect example of a player relying purely on physical gifts--such as height, stride, overall frame--and cashing in a huge cheque because of it. If I were a casual hockey fan and I seen Nash for the first time pulling off some of the driving to the net plays he seldom uses, I would have thought him to be one of the absolute best players in the world.
he still is one of the best players in the world. its just frustrating because he could be so much better. he absolutely has the gifts to be a dominant player in the league, but doesnt pull it all together. hes still one of the best wingers, a bit overpaid, but hes still good.

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01-20-2014, 07:11 PM
  #87
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he still is one of the best players in the world. its just frustrating because he could be so much better. he absolutely has the gifts to be a dominant player in the league, but doesnt pull it all together. hes still one of the best wingers, a bit overpaid, but hes still good.
30-40 goals a season roughly over the last 10 years. 2nd only to Ovechkin in goals over that time span. And he has done that with some of the weakest 1st line centers in the game. You know exactly what you are getting from Nash.

I'd love to have seen him with Thornton over that period of years.

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01-20-2014, 08:51 PM
  #88
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hes been to 2 olympics. in 2010 he had 10 points in 13 games following the olympics. in 2006 he had 26 points in 24 games following the olympics. what are you talking about?
I am saying he elevates his game before, during, and after the Olympics. Then disappears. It is Classic Nash, one of the most common refrains is "why can't he ALWAYS play like the Olympics?"

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Old
01-20-2014, 09:18 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Again, CBJ fan here to say that Nash ALWAYS goes on a hot streak before the Olympics.

He then ALWAYS tapers off after.
He also performed at nearly a PPG level last season. A year without the Olympics. But, right, that doesn't play into your agenda so we'll ignore it.

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01-20-2014, 09:28 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
30-40 goals a season roughly over the last 10 years. 2nd only to Ovechkin in goals over that time span. And he has done that with some of the weakest 1st line centers in the game. You know exactly what you are getting from Nash.

I'd love to have seen him with Thornton over that period of years.
He's scored 40 twice and the last time was 2008-2009. The statistics you've given manipulate the viewpoint of Nash somewhat. The 10 year synopsis, whilst showing his consistency, overstates his achievements relative to the competition.

Lets put it this way. Nash has never hit 80 points in his career. He's hit 70+ once (Sure, he's missed some games). He's played exactly 16 playoff games to date. Nash has never been an elite NHL producer and probably never will be. He's an extremely talented but ultimately fustrating player who has yet to prove he is capable of being an important cog in an NHL team.

Furthermore, high quality players playing on bad teams see large amounts of ice time. The fallacy that it hurts production significantly has been disproven time and time again. Good players put up significant points anywhere.

Rick Nash isn't proving his doubters wrong, unless you're moronic enough to take a 6 or 7 game sample size as gospel over years of data.

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01-20-2014, 09:30 PM
  #91
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Since the conversation on this page shifted to his great combination of size and ability and the kind of player he could be if he put it all together, I just wanted to post my thoughts again since they're right in line with that topic. I have a strong dislike for Nash, and have since long before we acquired him, but it's not because I deny how skilled he is; it's almost the opposite. I fully acknowledge his talent. The very reason I dislike him so much and think of him as being a lazy, unengaged player is because of his size and undeniable talent.

With his size and skill, it is completely within his grasp to be a dominant 90+ point player and force of nature. The only thing missing is the motor; the drive to BE that player. And that's a shame. Teammates are not an excuse; Ovechkin and Crosby were on dreadful teams when they came into the league putting up 100 points annually. Nash has the tools to do that. He's one of the few players in the world who has the size and ability to be that dominant. Nash has the size and the skill but simply not the motor.

To me, he's a guy who has all the tools and the natural gifts of size and athleticism, to be absolutely dominant but only the will/desire to be very good. He could have a Girardi/Callahan work ethic or Crosby's commitment to improving and be a top five forward in the world. It's easier to not put in that effort, collect his 7.8M annually and hope that some of the other guys on the team do most of the heavy lifting. Imagine if Zucc was blessed with Nash's size? 6'4 216lbs? This is why I dislike Rick Nash. I am convinced that with Nash you simply NEVER get a 110% effort and it's pretty damn rare to even see 100%. That's why I say he's lazy. That's why I say he's a floater. That's why I say he's unengaged. I never have questioned his skill for a second. I question him for being content to be a passenger when he really, really should be the driver.

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01-20-2014, 09:42 PM
  #92
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30-40 goals a season roughly over the last 10 years. 2nd only to Ovechkin in goals over that time span. And he has done that with some of the weakest 1st line centers in the game. You know exactly what you are getting from Nash.
Even using that timeframe (which is fairly convenient, because it selects his first good season and everything after), he's 4th to Ovechkin (100 goals ahead), Kovalchuk (43 goals ahead despite not playing in the NHL this year), and Iginla, and 8th in goals-per-game (behind those three and also Stamkos, Crosby, Malkin, and Gaborik).

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I'd love to have seen him with Thornton over that period of years.
So to put up superstar numbers he has to hypothetically play with one of the top 3 playmakers of the last decade?

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01-20-2014, 09:46 PM
  #93
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Since the conversation on this page shifted to his great combination of size and ability and the kind of player he could be if he put it all together, I just wanted to post my thoughts again since they're right in line with that topic. I have a strong dislike for Nash, and have since long before we acquired him, but it's not because I deny how skilled he is; it's almost the opposite. I fully acknowledge his talent. The very reason I dislike him so much and think of him as being a lazy, unengaged player is because of his size and undeniable talent.

With his size and skill, it is completely within his grasp to be a dominant 90+ point player and force of nature. The only thing missing is the motor; the drive to BE that player. And that's a shame. Teammates are not an excuse; Ovechkin and Crosby were on dreadful teams when they came into the league putting up 100 points annually. Nash has the tools to do that. He's one of the few players in the world who has the size and ability to be that dominant. Nash has the size and the skill but simply not the motor.

To me, he's a guy who has all the tools and the natural gifts of size and athleticism, to be absolutely dominant but only the will/desire to be very good. He could have a Girardi/Callahan work ethic or Crosby's commitment to improving and be a top five forward in the world. It's easier to not put in that effort, collect his 7.8M annually and hope that some of the other guys on the team do most of the heavy lifting. Imagine if Zucc was blessed with Nash's size? 6'4 216lbs? This is why I dislike Rick Nash. I am convinced that with Nash you simply NEVER get a 110% effort and it's pretty damn rare to even see 100%. That's why I say he's lazy. That's why I say he's a floater. That's why I say he's unengaged. I never have questioned his skill for a second. I question him for being content to be a passenger when he really, really should be the driver.
Well put. An even simpler summation: if a European player played the way Nash does, complete with the seeming (based on production) emphasis on international tournaments, he'd be one of the most reviled players in NHL history. Such a player would be decried as lazy, soft, a floater, someone who's only playing for the money, and a player that cares more about the Olympics and World Championships than the Stanley Cup. You'd probably also hear that repeated every week by Cherry, Milbury, and similar media blowhards.

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01-20-2014, 10:14 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
I am saying he elevates his game before, during, and after the Olympics. Then disappears. It is Classic Nash, one of the most common refrains is "why can't he ALWAYS play like the Olympics?"
disappears for the summer?

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01-20-2014, 10:18 PM
  #95
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Well put. An even simpler summation: if a European player played the way Nash does, complete with the seeming (based on production) emphasis on international tournaments, he'd be one of the most reviled players in NHL history. Such a player would be decried as lazy, soft, a floater, someone who's only playing for the money, and a player that cares more about the Olympics and World Championships than the Stanley Cup. You'd probably also hear that repeated every week by Cherry, Milbury, and similar media blowhards.
Yep. I said earlier in the thread that if his name was Nastenko we wouldn't be having this conversation and he'd be universally considered the most overrated player in town and very unpopular.

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01-20-2014, 10:39 PM
  #96
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Well put. An even simpler summation: if a European player played the way Nash does, complete with the seeming (based on production) emphasis on international tournaments, he'd be one of the most reviled players in NHL history. Such a player would be decried as lazy, soft, a floater, someone who's only playing for the money, and a player that cares more about the Olympics and World Championships than the Stanley Cup. You'd probably also hear that repeated every week by Cherry, Milbury, and similar media blowhards.
Like Alexander "Contract Year" Mogilny?

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01-21-2014, 12:14 AM
  #97
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Even using that timeframe (which is fairly convenient, because it selects his first good season and everything after), he's 4th to Ovechkin (100 goals ahead), Kovalchuk (43 goals ahead despite not playing in the NHL this year), and Iginla, and 8th in goals-per-game (behind those three and also Stamkos, Crosby, Malkin, and Gaborik).



So to put up superstar numbers he has to hypothetically play with one of the top 3 playmakers of the last decade?


I use that timeframe because the guy has only played 10 seasons in the NHL.

I'll take your word for it that Nash is 4th in goals over the last 10 years. GPG are a completely different stat. I don't really care that a guy is gpg stud if he's fragile and missing 30 games a year (Havlat). You know Nash is going to give you 30+ goals damn near every season. He's had one high ankle sprain and besides that has played through or missed only a game here or there.

I'd love to see the extra drive from Nash that others are saying is lacking. I do think he has another level he can take his game to, but that doesn't change the fact that he is a consistent top scorer and 40 goal scorers get paid.


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01-21-2014, 12:17 AM
  #98
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Good for him

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01-21-2014, 12:54 AM
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Nash has been playing really well. But in no way should MSL have been left off of the roster (twice in a row). I have no idea what they're thinking. I know he's old: but the guy just won the Art Ross last year. He's far from washed up.

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01-21-2014, 12:59 AM
  #100
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I use that timeframe because the guy has only played 10 seasons in the NHL.

I'll take your word for it that Nash is 4th in goals over the last 10 years. GPG are a completely different stat. I don't really care that a guy is gpg stud if he's fragile and missing 30 games a year (Havlat). You know Nash is going to give you 30+ goals damn near every season. He's had one high ankle sprain and besides that has played through or missed only a game here or there.

I'd love to see the extra drive from Nash that others are saying is lacking. I do think he has another level he can take his game to, but that doesn't change the fact that he is a consistent top scorer and 40 goal scorers get paid.
He did say 8th behind Ovie, Kovy, Iggy, Sid, Geno, Gaborik and Stammer. Aside from Gaborik, and I guess Crosby, the only reason the ones who aren't ahead of him in totals aren't ahead is because they're younger, not fragile. He's a top 10 goal scorer. No doubts about it. He's like a top 30 overall offensive player. I agree he has the tools to take it to another level where that wouldn't be the case, but I don't think he has the drive to do so.

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