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Why Tinordi isn't on this yet?

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Old
01-22-2014, 07:58 AM
  #26
Komarov47
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Originally Posted by Tyson View Post
Speed, ability to move the puck and brings help to the power play, three things Jarred does not bring.
Excepted the Hawks, which team have 4/5 puck moving dman in their team?

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01-22-2014, 07:59 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Komarov47 View Post
kYLE Clifford, Lapierre, Cleary, Morrow, Penner...
i thought you were a little confused, now i know it's just you haven't a clue on what a powerforward is.

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01-22-2014, 08:00 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by IceDaddy View Post
the only one that could have made a difference is penner and he wanted to stay in So Cal and he was not available when the habs signed Murray.

Clifford - 5 point this year
Lapiere - 9 points this year
Cleary - 8 point this year
Morrow - 17 points this year
Penner - 26 points this year

They got Briere because their first pick chose to play in Philly. They did try to get their big forward, it just didnt work out....
I'm not talking about points, it's about energy, hits ... Prust is the perfect exemple and he's 6'0.

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01-22-2014, 08:03 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by drakaar10iemechx2012 View Post
i thought you were a little confused, now i know it's just you haven't a clue on what a powerforward is.
Call it grinder, or whatever it is... The defenition of power forward for me is guys like Lucic, Perry.... I know CLifford or Lapierre aren't that kind of player, it's a globality, now if you want to fight with me about words, i'm not gonna play pal

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01-22-2014, 08:03 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Komarov47 View Post
Excepted the Hawks, which team have 4/5 puck moving dman in their team?
Columbus, St. Louis, Phoenix, Vancouver.

Those guys you named don't even hit that much.

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01-22-2014, 08:07 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
Columbus, St. Louis, Phoenix, Vancouver.

Those guys you named don't even hit that much.
Which is very few, you can be a good team with 2/3 good puck moving dman as well.

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01-22-2014, 08:17 AM
  #32
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Agree we should be giving icetime to one of our big young defencemen rather than Cube and Murray. Would promote Pateryn over Tinordi or Beaulieu though, he's 6'2" 220lbs and leads the Dogs in defenceman scoring and +/- and can fight. He'll be 24 years old this summer we're wasting him.
He needs to be brought up and given ice-time.

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01-22-2014, 08:24 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by sventington View Post
Tinordi did not look ready at all when we had him up at the beginning of the year. He was slow, and he wasn't playing very physical at all. Has he improved in Hamilton? If not, no sense in bringing him up just because our other defensemen aren't doing a good job.
I would have liked Therrien and co. the be patient with Tinordi. He showed good things in preseason and looked average in the grand total of 6 games he took part this season. Looking back, none of Bouillon, Diaz or Murray showed they played better than Tinordi.

Also, Tinordi being slow is false. He's actually quite fast for a guy his size.

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01-22-2014, 08:40 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Uber Coca View Post
I would have liked Therrien and co. the be patient with Tinordi. He showed good things in preseason and looked average in the grand total of 6 games he took part this season. Looking back, none of Bouillon, Diaz or Murray showed they played better than Tinordi.

Also, Tinordi being slow is false. He's actually quite fast for a guy his size.
Oh I thought he looked great in the preseason! I was excited to have him up and see what he could do. Ultimately though he seemed to forget what it was that made him successful before. He wasn't hitting anyone, and players seemed to simply skate by him as he kind of reached and poked and failed to do anything useful. I think they were right to send him down when they did. Don't they have a window of something like 7 games before they have to eat a year of his contract or something along those lines? Maybe take a cap hit? I can't remember how these things work. In any event they did not have the same option with Bouillon, Diaz or Murray, unfortunately. As you said, it isn't as if they were outplaying him.

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01-22-2014, 08:42 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Uber Coca View Post
I would have liked Therrien and co. the be patient with Tinordi. He showed good things in preseason and looked average in the grand total of 6 games he took part this season. Looking back, none of Bouillon, Diaz or Murray showed they played better than Tinordi.

Also, Tinordi being slow is false. He's actually quite fast for a guy his size.
And faster than Murray
I mean what's the deal of recalled Beaulieu? Some will say that he can hit sometimes, move the puck well and skate well, but do we really need those kind of qualities right now? I'm not taking anything off Nathan, he's a great prospect, but right now it's Tinordi we need.

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01-22-2014, 08:46 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by sventington View Post
Oh I thought he looked great in the preseason! I was excited to have him up and see what he could do. Ultimately though he seemed to forget what it was that made him successful before. He wasn't hitting anyone, and players seemed to simply skate by him as he kind of reached and poked and failed to do anything useful. I think they were right to send him down when they did. Don't they have a window of something like 7 games before they have to eat a year of his contract or something along those lines? Maybe take a cap hit? I can't remember how these things work. In any event they did not have the same option with Bouillon, Diaz or Murray, unfortunately. As you said, it isn't as if they were outplaying him.
i think it was the right move to send him down, but it's a matter of make the Habs better, or wait for a player to develop in the farm. Tinordi have around 100 games in AHL, that's fair enough?

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01-22-2014, 08:51 AM
  #37
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No, I think now, Habs need more of what Beaulieu can bring than what Tinordi does, especially since Tinordi isn't ready to be physical in the NHL yet. You need that 1/2 second for that, and Tinordi doesn't have it now, not even consistently in the AHL. Those kind of D takes longer to develop.

And Habs do need more puck-moving and passing ability from the D. Diaz "look" like he's good at it, but it isn't true. His decision rarely serve the transition game, and he has to fight so much in the D-zone to have the puck that he's rarely in a situation to make something else than throwing it on the board. Same with Bouillon, and he's not even good enough to play everyday. And Gorges doesn't have any move or offense to speak of, anywhere on the ice. And Emelin is ok sometimes, but still below average in that department.

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01-22-2014, 08:54 AM
  #38
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would surely be an upgrade over bouillon or murray

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01-22-2014, 08:55 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
No, I think now, Habs need more of what Beaulieu can bring than what Tinordi does, especially since Tinordi isn't ready to be physical in the NHL yet. You need that 1/2 second for that, and Tinordi doesn't have it now, not even consistently in the AHL. Those kind of D takes longer to develop.

And Habs do need more puck-moving and passing ability from the D. Diaz "look" like he's good at it, but it isn't true. His decision rarely serve the transition game, and he has to fight so much in the D-zone to have the puck that he's rarely in a situation to make something else than throwing it on the board. Same with Bouillon, and he's not even good enough to play everyday. And Gorges doesn't have any move or offense to speak of, anywhere on the ice. And Emelin is ok sometimes, but still below average in that department.
Damn... too bad we can't sit Murray and Diaz and see what can Tinrodi/Beaulieu do both righ now. I guess you right, Diaz is often entitled as a offensive dman or good puck moving dman, but the more i see him play, the more i doubt about his capablity of doing so.

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01-22-2014, 08:59 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Komarov47 View Post
Damn... too bad we can't sit Murray and Diaz and see what can Tinrodi/Beaulieu do both righ now. I guess you right, Diaz is often entitled as a offensive dman or good puck moving dman, but the more i see him play, the more i doubt about his capablity of doing so.
...Diaz is underrated here; sure, his offensive game has taken a step back since his concussion last year, but he's picked it up alot defensively, as seen by his #13 ranking (as of Tuesday) in the NHL in blocked shots...plus, he's a righty, something we are sorrily lacking right now...

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01-22-2014, 09:02 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Komarov47 View Post
Damn... too bad we can't sit Murray and Diaz and see what can Tinrodi/Beaulieu do both righ now. I guess you right, Diaz is often entitled as a offensive dman or good puck moving dman, but the more i see him play, the more i doubt about his capablity of doing so.
...and Tinordi and Beaulieu are both Left D. It wouldn't be fair to have them play on their wrong side when the D is already a mess.

Signing or trading for a RD is and will be an absolute priority for Bergevin, me thinks.

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01-22-2014, 09:03 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by sventington View Post
Tinordi did not look ready at all when we had him up at the beginning of the year. He was slow, and he wasn't playing very physical at all. Has he improved in Hamilton? If not, no sense in bringing him up just because our other defensemen aren't doing a good job.
A few days ago some were claiming Beaulieu was "not NHL ready". Yet he played well and was fine for a young player. Now people are saying the same about Tinordi. Amazing.

Let the young guys play.

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01-22-2014, 09:04 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
...and Tinordi and Beaulieu are both Left D. It wouldn't be fair to have them play on their wrong side when the D is already a mess.

Signing or trading for a RD is and will be an absolute priority for Bergevin, me thinks.
i wouldn't be against Bergevin claiming Oleksy, righ handed dman, can hit, can fight, block shot...

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01-22-2014, 09:06 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
...Diaz is underrated here; sure, his offensive game has taken a step back since his concussion last year, but he's picked it up alot defensively, as seen by his #13 ranking (as of Tuesday) in the NHL in blocked shots...plus, he's a righty, something we are sorrily lacking right now...
I would say underrated by some, overrated by others.

I would be comfortable with him on the thrid pairing as a RD, if he's playing with a better player than Murray or Bouillon.

That's why I think Habs should target a top 4 RD. It could allow them to move Emelin back on the left side, and then lower Gorges on the third pairing.

A third pairing of Gorges-Diaz would be very fine, IMO.

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01-22-2014, 09:42 AM
  #45
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I would say underrated by some, overrated by others.

I would be comfortable with him on the thrid pairing as a RD, if he's playing with a better player than Murray or Bouillon.

That's why I think Habs should target a top 4 RD. It could allow them to move Emelin back on the left side, and then lower Gorges on the third pairing.

A third pairing of Gorges-Diaz would be very fine, IMO.
Well Diaz was mainly bring in Montreal because of his offensive ability... let's just say it's not a good deak here..

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01-22-2014, 09:47 AM
  #46
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Bourray are on one way contracts. Even though he played his way on to the team at the start of the year he was only kept up because Murray injured himself during training camp. I would imagine Bergevin plans for him being on the team next year and hopefully moves Bourray at the trade deadline for anything to accommodate Tinordi or Pateryn for the rest of the season.

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01-22-2014, 10:03 AM
  #47
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Tiniori will be a hab next year. He needs more seasoning and you get that by playing every day. He is down in Hamilton working on the things he still needs to work on. MB is still stuck with a few contracts that will expire in July. Or at the trade deadline (maybe) which ever comes first.
Lets NOT forget the money, meaning if he come NOW habs burn 1 year off the Entey level contract. MB is just doing what he MUST.

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01-22-2014, 10:05 AM
  #48
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Tiniori will be a hab next year. He needs more seasoning and you get that by playing every day. He is down in Hamilton working on the things he still needs to work on. MB is still stuck with a few contracts that will expire in July. Or at the trade deadline (maybe) which ever comes first.
Lets NOT forget the money, meaning if he come NOW habs burn 1 year off the Entey level contract. MB is just doing what he MUST.
He burns a year off his ELC regardless. ELC's don't slide for players older than 19.

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01-22-2014, 10:08 AM
  #49
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Its pretty simple actually... This team can't keep possession of the damn puck. Possession starts with the D. If the D is not able to move the puck up the ice and/or feed the forwards, the opposing team will regain possession. That is why our team scores so many goals with Subban on the ice and why our team gives up so many goals with Murray on the ice.

Tinordi, I love the guy, is not a PMD. In no way would he help our offense, possession, and PP woes. He'd be grst on the PK, but our PK is already doing well enough.

As for Pateryn, the biggest positive people are raving about is the fact that he's right handed. Seriously? We might as well have kept Diaz's kinsmen then. Beaulieu's skillset and skating can actually help this team score goals and get back on track. I don't care which way Pateryn shoots. He may become a solid 3rd pairing D, but his ceiling is nowhere near Beaulieu's, nor is the positive impact he'd bring to the Habs as of now.

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01-22-2014, 10:17 AM
  #50
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Its pretty simple actually... This team can't keep possession of the damn puck. Possession starts with the D. If the D is not able to move the puck up the ice and/or feed the forwards, the opposing team will regain possession. That is why our team scores so many goals with Subban on the ice and why our team gives up so many goals with Murray on the ice.

Tinordi, I love the guy, is not a PMD. In no way would he help our offense, possession, and PP woes. He'd be grst on the PK, but our PK is already doing well enough.

As for Pateryn, the biggest positive people are raving about is the fact that he's right handed. Seriously? We might as well have kept Diaz's kinsmen then. Beaulieu's skillset and skating can actually help this team score goals and get back on track. I don't care which way Pateryn shoots. He may become a solid 3rd pairing D, but his ceiling is nowhere near Beaulieu's, nor is the positive impact he'd bring to the Habs as of now.
Bingo.

When we look at it, it is a no brainer that bergevin will have to make a move for a true top 4 RD sooner than later.

Let's see:

Left D:
Markov
Gorges
Emelin
Bouillon
Murray
Beaulieu
Tinordi

Right D:
Subban
Diaz
Drewisky
Pateryn

That right side is simply horrible and without any dept. Of course, Emelin is playing on the right side, but it is a no brainer that he would be better on the left.

Habs should trade from those LD, in a package to bring a top 4 RD. Such a move would have a domino effect that would make the whole defense way better, and more ready to include a youngster. And it could mean sacrificing one of Tinordi or Beaulieu, and one of Gorges or Emelin.

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