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Kevin Klein to NYR for Michael Del Zotto

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Old
04-26-2014, 06:59 PM
  #226
Byrddog
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Originally Posted by GeauxPreds View Post
That's a lot of doom and gloom for someone who only played 25 games under a new coach that punished him for any mistake he made. Give him some time and a full season before you start ripping into him, jeeze. From what I saw he looked fine defensively, though he had some boneheaded lapses(are we going to pretend klein didn't do this also?). He wasn't an amazing offensive defenseman but he wasn't lauded for his point shot like jones/ellis/weber he's got a great pass more than a great shot, and we saw that quite a bit. It didn't connect always, but with time and chemistry with his new teammates it should really only improve. I think people are expecting too much. If he settles as a decent second pairing guy then it's not bad at all, especially with the money he'll be getting. 3 mil for a second pairing type guy seriously isn't bad. I'm not saying this deal was all good, especially considering it was at best a lateral move for use when I think we were all hoping moving klein would bring back some offensive help, but people are crucifying MDZ before he's even had a real chance to prove himself.
The guy has over 300 NHL games under three different coaches who have all had issues with his play. At some point its not the coaches issue. It is simply amazing that coaches can be held responsible for every little thing but players are given chance after chance and year after year. This has been one issue with the Preds for a few years. Fan favorites have been held here far too long to sell seats when it is very clear they do not bring very much to the table. Tootoo was a perfect example, he really never belonged in the league he leaves here and the Wings catch a case of the dumbass and sign him and hes sent down clearing waivers half way through the year to Grand Rapids where he is still on the roster making bank. These are professional athletes and paid very well. There are far too many on this team that do not deserve the bloated contracts they received. And adding MDZ at 2.9 mil IMO is worse than Gooses contract.

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04-26-2014, 08:42 PM
  #227
Legionnaire11
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
The guy has over 300 NHL games under three different coaches who have all had issues with his play. At some point its not the coaches issue.
MDZ did very well under Tortorella though. Vigneault used him differently (not to his strengths) and we all knew that it wasn't going to work with Trotz. So you're taking 1/5th of his career and saying that he's "had issues" over the entire course of it.

On the salary, $3M isn't a lot for a 2nd pair guy. You're just grasping for anything to prove your argument which is incorrect in every aspect.

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04-26-2014, 09:04 PM
  #228
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The average salary of the 60 defensemen listed as 3/4 on the depth chart last season was $2,942,333. 35 players listed at 3/4 on the depth chart made more than MDZ.

So at $2.9 he's paid as a 4th defenseman in the NHL.

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04-26-2014, 10:13 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
The average salary of the 60 defensemen listed as 3/4 on the depth chart last season was $2,942,333. 35 players listed at 3/4 on the depth chart made more than MDZ.

So at $2.9 he's paid as a 4th defenseman in the NHL.
That is what it is going to cost us for a 2nd pairing D man whether it is Del Zotto or someone else. His contract is not going to break the bank because we'd have to pay someone else that money if it isn't him.

MDZ is the least of our problems. We need forwards who can score.

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04-27-2014, 07:58 PM
  #230
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MDZ will be back IMO. He played just as well as any other d-man not named Weber and Josi for the Pred's.
Those talking about his offense should go back and watch the games a little closer. I remember several several times he made great plays and the person he got the puck to could not do anything with it.

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04-27-2014, 08:41 PM
  #231
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MDZ will be getting atleast a QO imo. As someone else said, he is the least of our problems. His passing was really nice to see. He should be a Pred.

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04-28-2014, 01:30 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
MDZ did very well under Tortorella though. Vigneault used him differently (not to his strengths) and we all knew that it wasn't going to work with Trotz. So you're taking 1/5th of his career and saying that he's "had issues" over the entire course of it.

On the salary, $3M isn't a lot for a 2nd pair guy. You're just grasping for anything to prove your argument which is incorrect in every aspect.
I agree 3 mil is not unreasonable for a 2nd pair guy. The issue is is MDZ a second pair guy? The facts are

1 MDZ in his initial interview on TV when he cam e here indicated he like to be the offensive defenseman.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/4496/

27 goals 99 assists for 126 points over 5 seasons of which he played 3 of the 5 seasons over 70 games in the league. He has a total of 317 games in the league also. This does not indicate he is a offensive defenseman.

2 He has had difficulty in the defensive end the entire time he has been in the league. I have read countless opinions from NYR fans that back this up. Also watching his play for the Preds in his limited role he was often out of position and using the streach pass he loves so much creating turnovers due to few players being able to control the pass or players intercepting the thin in neutral ice. Now I know that is subjective but that's what I noticed. His role was very limited on the PK and non existent on the PP.


Now I tend to think he may be qualified just for DP to save face on such a pitiful trade. But it makes little sense from the team standpoint. Like it or not he does have a history of trouble with three coaches now and that is significant. While his performance under Torts was better he still had issues and Torts is really a more wide open offense type coach than Vigneult and for sure more than Trotz. So if the guy did not have decent numbers under Torts and had a big drop under more defensive coaches how does he fit in here. With the Preds defense and goaltending being the strength of the team it is not reasonable that there is s total turnaround in the system. Also a consideration is the number of D that are offensive Weber, Josi and Ellis fit that description for sure even Jones to a point. Leaving Eckholm and Bartly and the defensivly responsible guys. Now a case can be made that this one of the reason for the defense decline. So I guess my point is that MDZ's game does not meet the teams need in top 4 and even Ellis shot him out of PP time so I can't see 2.9 mil for him. But he will likely get it, and I fully expect if he does he will be the new whipping boy here.

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04-28-2014, 02:17 PM
  #233
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From what I've seen in his time with New York and Vancouver, "wide open offense" is not at all something I would use to describe John Tortorella's system. Purely from this years playoffs, Vigneault's system looks a lot more offense based, lots of quick transitions and stretch passes.

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04-28-2014, 02:39 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Kamikazepants View Post
From what I've seen in his time with New York and Vancouver, "wide open offense" is not at all something I would use to describe John Tortorella's system. Purely from this years playoffs, Vigneault's system looks a lot more offense based, lots of quick transitions and stretch passes.
My reference is more to the point that the teams MDZ played on were more "Wide open Offensivley" Than the players here have experienced in the NHL on the Nashville Predators team.

And I have to disagree with your evaluation of the NYR under Torts and Vig. all one has to do is look at the type players that were traded since Vigneault took the reins. I would suggest that he has tighted the team up defensively.


But back to the issue at hand. What is the indication that MDZ improves this team? And I do not mean the touchy feely aspects.

Is MDZ an offensive defenseman like he and everyone indicated he is? His numbers say no.

Is MDZ defensively competent the verdict is out on that but its a good bet that the answer is no since he was scratched toward the end of the season here and his same experience under Vingneault for sure and Torts to a point. If there is any coach in the league that can evaluate defensive talent its Trotz.

So any of you who can provide proof numbers wise feel free to. But please no emotional feel good stuff like he has not been given a chance. I contest 300 games in the NHL is a pretty good body of work to prove otherwise.

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04-28-2014, 03:13 PM
  #235
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I think MDZ's biggest problem is he has not been able to adjust to the speed of the game defensively. He seems a step behind on his reaction time especially at our own blueline during a transition. Something I think Jones also struggled with, so together they were a trainwreck at times. Klein actually struggled in this area too but was fast enough to recover.

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04-28-2014, 03:38 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
I think MDZ's biggest problem is he has not been able to adjust to the speed of the game defensively. He seems a step behind on his reaction time especially at our own blueline during a transition. Something I think Jones also struggled with, so together they were a trainwreck at times. Klein actually struggled in this area too but was fast enough to recover.
Don't feint Trigg because I agree with you again. And I think even deeper it has a lot to do with the maturation of there game. KK did adjust and get better and I think Jones will as well. Im not convinced MDZ will. To this point as much heat as he took in NY you would think he would have made adjustments. Another player that comes to mind is Zanon he seemed to always be just a step behind and out of position. Therefore he would throw his body to block shots.

I would much prefer the money that would be paid to MDZ be taken to sign a veteran Dman to help Jones. Josi gets better by the game while playing with Weber but I don't see Jones improving much playing with MDZ.

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04-28-2014, 04:20 PM
  #237
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Yeah, I think Ekholm will likely be Jones's long time partner, and I don't seen MDZ being stable enough to use Ellis/MDZ pairing. I despite all prior years have more faith in Ellis now, and would like a more stay at home guy to play on the left of Ellis, would be wonderful if that guy also had some speed and size to his game. That's where I'm hoping Diaby comes in but it's too early for that.

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04-28-2014, 04:35 PM
  #238
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I think we qualify him, but if Poile thinks he can find someone better for roughly the same money it wouldn't shock me to see him traded. I think it really comes down to how much face he tries to save. I also think it depends on if he wants to just take the easy route and not worry about it this year, that wouldn't shock me either.

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04-28-2014, 05:42 PM
  #239
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Don't get me wrong Byrddog, I think it was a bad trade. Klein was a good piece to have on a fantastic contract. But I do think MDZ still has upside and can make the trade okay in the long term.

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04-28-2014, 05:48 PM
  #240
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Klein's problem is that he couldn't play well on the left side and his inability to transition the puck consistently.

On the right side he's competing with Weber, Jones and Ellis, our 3 best at transitioning the puck or 3 of the 4 best.

If he could have effectively played his role on the left side, he would not have been traded.

As soon as next year, Jones will be better all around.

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04-28-2014, 06:11 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
Don't get me wrong Byrddog, I think it was a bad trade. Klein was a good piece to have on a fantastic contract. But I do think MDZ still has upside and can make the trade okay in the long term.
I do understand and yes I didn't like the trade from the beginning but that's done. Now to move forward. I am not comfortable taking a chance on MDZ. We are already looking for upside on Jones, Ekholm, and for that matter Ellis still. Really the entire forward future is that way as well. That is really why the team in in its current state, filling the roster with hopefuls instead of a few hopefuls and some solid veterans.The whold situation is wonky.

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04-28-2014, 07:48 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
I do understand and yes I didn't like the trade from the beginning but that's done. Now to move forward. I am not comfortable taking a chance on MDZ. We are already looking for upside on Jones, Ekholm, and for that matter Ellis still. Really the entire forward future is that way as well. That is really why the team in in its current state, filling the roster with hopefuls instead of a few hopefuls and some solid veterans.The whold situation is wonky.
Generally every team in the NHL goes through the same thing at some point though. What makes ours worse is that alot of problems are from guys on crappy contracts so you can't do anything with them. Its one reason I don't see how Poile has any chance in hell of saving his job, he's between a rock and hard place with no room to move.

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05-03-2014, 06:18 PM
  #243
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does he stay in nashville or do they trade him or let him walk.? i would like to see him in san jose. with a potential "selling mode in s.j" couple of their vets will be ufas.

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05-03-2014, 09:18 PM
  #244
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does he stay in nashville or do they trade him or let him walk.? i would like to see him in san jose. with a potential "selling mode in s.j" couple of their vets will be ufas.
I'm thinking there is no way we let him walk after trading Klein for him.

If SJ offered something decent we might trade his rights but more likely he signs an extension with us… this is especially true if Housley ends up being named HC

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05-06-2014, 10:43 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
I'm thinking there is no way we let him walk after trading Klein for him.

If SJ offered something decent we might trade his rights but more likely he signs an extension with us… this is especially true if Housley ends up being named HC
What do you think it would take?

Would an RFA swap like Sheppard or Wingels get it done?
How about a vet under contract like Kennedy?

Thoughts

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05-06-2014, 11:30 AM
  #246
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I'd much rather keep him than sell low.

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05-06-2014, 12:45 PM
  #247
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Im betting that MDZ is not too excited about the new coach

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05-06-2014, 01:32 PM
  #248
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Im betting that MDZ is not too excited about the new coach
I would think the opposite. He'll play in a system that thrives off of the transition game. Wouldn't his stretch pass become a staple exiting the defensive zone?? Defensemen pinching more to generate offense. Of course if he lollygags backchecking he'll find himself in the doghouse quickly.

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05-06-2014, 01:34 PM
  #249
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I would think the opposite. He'll play in a system that thrives off of the transition game. Wouldn't his stretch pass become a staple exiting the defensive zone?? Defensemen pinching more to generate offense. Of course if he lollygags backchecking he'll find himself in the doghouse quickly.
This is my thought, too. In the D-zone, he's a risk, but under Lavi, at least he can feel free to play the way that made him great that one year. Maybe now he'll be allowed to do the cross ice passes and pinch more.

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05-06-2014, 01:42 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
Im betting that MDZ is not too excited about the new coach
I can't imagine why. Pushing the defense to contribute more seems to me like it'd be right up his alley.

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