HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Trade Rumor Thread XIII

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-26-2014, 06:37 PM
  #376
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,283
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
I guess we'll see how replaceable they are if/when they are all gone.
I'm with you. I think it would be a huge mistake to trade both.

__________________
"Here we can see the agression of american people. They love fighting and guns. when they wont win they try to kill us all." -HalfOfFame
HatTrick Swayze is offline  
Old
01-26-2014, 06:48 PM
  #377
Raspewtin
MayDeathNeverStopYou
 
Raspewtin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Howard Beach, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,326
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
You may think so. Not in reality. Lose Callahan, lose Girardi, lose Staal, lose Richards... it will take years to recover.
I didn't say anything about those players.

I said Callahan isn't worth the money he's going to get.

I still trade Girardi. Unless Sather is sure Staal isn't going to resign.

__________________

Thank you boys
Raspewtin is offline  
Old
01-26-2014, 08:03 PM
  #378
Lindberg Cheese
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: VA
Posts: 666
vCash: 500
We'll be small buyers if we hold the 5-6 playoff position or better, no one is going anywhere until the offseason. Right or wrong. I still advocate a retool however for some guys who we know can't or don't want to resign.

Lindberg Cheese is offline  
Old
01-26-2014, 08:05 PM
  #379
haohmaru
#bdwyblueshirts
 
haohmaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fleming Island, Fl
Country: United States
Posts: 5,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
So one season of relative success puts us on a higher level? Not buying it. We've seen this team barely squeak into the playoffs more often than not, and we've advanced beyond the 2nd round once. We're on the exact same level as teams like the Predators. Good enough to make it, but never good enough to really win anything of significance.

Average. It's good enough for Rangers fans.
Making the playoffs every season except one since the lockout is waaaaay above average. Two teams have done better in the entire NHL.

The Preds have never been to the Conference Finals, have never finished 1st in the West, and were never really considered a real threat to win the Cup. The '11-12 Rangers had a lot of people believing.

haohmaru is offline  
Old
01-26-2014, 08:08 PM
  #380
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuckera1 View Post
What's our problem in the playoffs? Goals. Spezza can help with that. Staal is likely off to Carolina after next year too.
Likely? Who told you that? It's more likely he is extended.

broadwayblue is offline  
Old
01-26-2014, 09:26 PM
  #381
BobMarleyNYR
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Alphabet
Country: Iraq
Posts: 2,914
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BobMarleyNYR
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuckera1 View Post
Not for nothing, but I don't believe JT will ever be a 2C. I think his ceiling is a solid 3C, but I hope I'm wrong.
I agree.

BobMarleyNYR is offline  
Old
01-27-2014, 12:21 AM
  #382
BBKers
Registered User
 
BBKers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: South Koster, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 5,653
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to BBKers
Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Making the playoffs every season except one since the lockout is waaaaay above average. Two teams have done better in the entire NHL.

The Preds have never been to the Conference Finals, have never finished 1st in the West, and were never really considered a real threat to win the Cup. The '11-12 Rangers had a lot of people believing.
So does Santa Claus for every kid
But then reality sets in...

BBKers is offline  
Old
01-27-2014, 04:57 AM
  #383
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,439
vCash: 500
I think the team is looking at adding more size. I heard, while watching another game but I don't remember which, one expert refering to the diffrence between the West and the East primarely being that the West-teams just are bigger than the Eastern teams. Harder to contain. This guy also referred to AV saying just this.

I had a discussion on size with RB a few weeks, maybe a month or more who remembers, back. I've tried to follow the topic a bit when watching other teams play. And I have changed my mind a bit.

A few thoughts:

- There is definitely room for smaller players in the game, no doubt.

- If you are to be able to carry bigger players, you more or less "need" smaller players. There are a bunch of big players and teams out there that are just very ineffective. The diffrence between the effective big players and ineffective big players are their environment. Hence why someone like S Gionta got a job in NJ. A team like ANA with a great transition game and a really mobile blueline get great use of their bigger forwards. And so forth. For the less teams, a bunch of bigger players can just be completely and utterly ineffective for long periods, several games etc. Mathias in FLA, Ladd in Winnipeg and so forth. Sometimes you don't see them at all.

- The good size, besides a few really rare exceptions, is found on the wing and not center ice.

- The bigger forwards really does not need to be able to fight nor be very punative to be effective. Its when they have the puck, can bulldose their way to the net, circle it around the boards, they are effective. It doesn't hurt to have hitting power up front too -- of course not -- but its definitely not like just a big factor. Boston get to use a punative side, but like Anaheim don't have it at all. Nor many other teams in the west. STL and so forth.

- Its always a balance. The bigger forwards are useful up ice, but a burden in the transition game. In a game between two good teams, if you end up on the back you are screwed. You end up on your back if you can't transit.

A bigger forwards that can make decision with the puck helps a ton if you don't have a world class transition game, and so forth. The balance is very delicat. For NJ its essential that their bigger forwards can play the game with the puck too so that they can get up, for example.

Ola is online now  
Old
01-27-2014, 05:15 AM
  #384
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,439
vCash: 500
I like the moves NJ did for a while as some kind of measurestick rather than the the sell-off moves CHI and Boston did when all their players had great value after a ton of exposure after Cup-runs etc. Every move can be discussed, but in principle I like them.

Acquring:
Jamie Langenbrunner and Joe Nieuwendyk for Jason Arnott and Randy McKay.

Alexander Mogilny for Brendan Morrison and Denis Pederson.

Vladimir Malakhov for Josh DeWolf, Sheldon Souray and 2001 2nd round pick

Claude Lemieux for Brian Rolston 2001 conditional pick Devils option to swap 2000 1st round picks

Jason Arnott and Bryan Muir for Bill Guerin and Valeri Zelepukin

Dave Ellett, Doug Gilmour and 1998 4th round pick or 1999 3rd round pick for Jason Smith, Steve Sullivan and Alyn McCauley

Dave Andreychuk for 1996 2nd round pick option of 1998 4th round pick or 1999 3rd round pick

Phil Housley and Dan Keczmer for Tommy Albelin, Cale Hulse and Jocelyn Lemieux

Hockey trades. Made to fill actual needs in every instance. To build a team. Very few "gamble" trades, they are getting a player that isn't on the verge to break into the league, no lottery tickets, they are getting players that was more established. Some young and up coming, sure, but still known values. Every trade made to fill a need, the ability of a player to accomplish something in a very specific role is always premiered over intanglibles etc. Its very obvious that they think: "we know that we can provide X and Y for this player, can he provide Z for us? Ok lets do it." I don't care if the player we are getting has the intanglibles of Mike Green or Ales Hemsky on one side or Andrew Ladd or Chris Philips on the other, we should get the player that fills our need on the ice. IE, just for example of course, I think Andrew Ladd and Mike Green would fill a need on the ice, I think we could support them, while I do no think Chris Philips or Ales Hemsky fill a need for us at all and I don't think we could support either...


Last edited by Ola: 01-27-2014 at 05:21 AM.
Ola is online now  
Old
01-27-2014, 06:42 AM
  #385
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,746
vCash: 500
The Rangers beat the Devils in an outdoor game and they're winning the Cup.

The Rangers have tough choices to make. Pay or trade. It's not keep and let them leave as free agents in July.

If you trade Girardi and/or Callahan,you gets assets back in return. The alternative is paying them or letting them leave as free agents.

How are the Rangers getting the players to actually win something? The pro-keep Girardi and Callahan crowd will blame Vigneault for the team not winning when the reality is the Rangers will have $12M combined in them for the next 6-7 years.

Same thing with Staal. Be pro-active. Can the Rangers afford to keep him if they re-sign Girardi and/or Callahan if Staal wants to stay? The Rangers fans have trouble letting go.

Its a business. The Rangers have Girardi and Callahan as group IIIs along Stralman and Boyle this summer. Arbitration with Kreider,Zuccarello and Brassard. Moore is a group II. Next summer Staal is a group III. Stepan and Hagelin as the arb eligibles.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
01-27-2014, 06:42 AM
  #386
haohmaru
#bdwyblueshirts
 
haohmaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fleming Island, Fl
Country: United States
Posts: 5,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
So does Santa Claus for every kid
But then reality sets in...
The difference is that the Rangers were real. Santa Claus isn't.

haohmaru is offline  
Old
01-27-2014, 06:46 AM
  #387
haohmaru
#bdwyblueshirts
 
haohmaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fleming Island, Fl
Country: United States
Posts: 5,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post

Hockey trades. Made to fill actual needs in every instance. To build a team. Very few "gamble" trades, they are getting a player that isn't on the verge to break into the league, no lottery tickets, they are getting players that was more established. Some young and up coming, sure, but still known values. Every trade made to fill a need, the ability of a player to accomplish something in a very specific role is always premiered over intanglibles etc. Its very obvious that they think: "we know that we can provide X and Y for this player, can he provide Z for us? Ok lets do it." I don't care if the player we are getting has the intanglibles of Mike Green or Ales Hemsky on one side or Andrew Ladd or Chris Philips on the other, we should get the player that fills our need on the ice. IE, just for example of course, I think Andrew Ladd and Mike Green would fill a need on the ice, I think we could support them, while I do no think Chris Philips or Ales Hemsky fill a need for us at all and I don't think we could support either...
That's what I liked about the MDZ trade: Klein fills a need on the back end and the Rangers had too many L D and had to make a choice. I've always liked MDZ and feel like he's young enough to still have a good upside. Problem is that John Moore does, too, and he looked a lot more confident yesterday with a steady D on his pair.

haohmaru is offline  
Old
01-27-2014, 07:12 AM
  #388
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,357
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I think the team is looking at adding more size. I heard, while watching another game but I don't remember which, one expert refering to the diffrence between the West and the East primarely being that the West-teams just are bigger than the Eastern teams. Harder to contain. This guy also referred to AV saying just this.

I had a discussion on size with RB a few weeks, maybe a month or more who remembers, back. I've tried to follow the topic a bit when watching other teams play. And I have changed my mind a bit.

A few thoughts:

- There is definitely room for smaller players in the game, no doubt.

- If you are to be able to carry bigger players, you more or less "need" smaller players. There are a bunch of big players and teams out there that are just very ineffective. The diffrence between the effective big players and ineffective big players are their environment. Hence why someone like S Gionta got a job in NJ. A team like ANA with a great transition game and a really mobile blueline get great use of their bigger forwards. And so forth. For the less teams, a bunch of bigger players can just be completely and utterly ineffective for long periods, several games etc. Mathias in FLA, Ladd in Winnipeg and so forth. Sometimes you don't see them at all.

- The good size, besides a few really rare exceptions, is found on the wing and not center ice.

- The bigger forwards really does not need to be able to fight nor be very punative to be effective. Its when they have the puck, can bulldose their way to the net, circle it around the boards, they are effective. It doesn't hurt to have hitting power up front too -- of course not -- but its definitely not like just a big factor. Boston get to use a punative side, but like Anaheim don't have it at all. Nor many other teams in the west. STL and so forth.

- Its always a balance. The bigger forwards are useful up ice, but a burden in the transition game. In a game between two good teams, if you end up on the back you are screwed. You end up on your back if you can't transit.

A bigger forwards that can make decision with the puck helps a ton if you don't have a world class transition game, and so forth. The balance is very delicat. For NJ its essential that their bigger forwards can play the game with the puck too so that they can get up, for example.
AV was asked the differences between the East and West a couple games ago. He said stylistically pretty much the same but that the West tended to have bigger teams. It's a question that's come up before between him and various beat writers.

Looking at yesterday's game. The Rangers had lots of problems getting the puck away from the Devils in the first period. The Devils are not a fast team but they have big forwards. They try to slow the game down by clogging the neutral zone--sticking it deep in our end and working the puck around the boards and corners. Get a line or defense pairing out to long and wear them down. They've done this before against us with some success and it's a style that lesser teams often use successfully against more talented teams in the playoffs.

eco's bones is offline  
Old
01-27-2014, 08:19 AM
  #389
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,434
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Making the playoffs every season except one since the lockout is waaaaay above average. Two teams have done better in the entire NHL.

The Preds have never been to the Conference Finals, have never finished 1st in the West, and were never really considered a real threat to win the Cup. The '11-12 Rangers had a lot of people believing.
I think what's missing here is the difference between squeaking into the playoffs and being a legitimate playoff team. One trip beyond the 2nd round since the lockout might be "way" above average to some, but I expect more out of this team. That 11-12 team rode it's good fortune as long as it could, but the playoffs proved that it was a very flawed group. Outside of the hot start, we were pretty much a bubble team all season long.

I'm just going to leave it at that. Agree to disagree.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
01-27-2014, 08:34 AM
  #390
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,185
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
AV was asked the differences between the East and West a couple games ago. He said stylistically pretty much the same but that the West tended to have bigger teams. It's a question that's come up before between him and various beat writers.

Looking at yesterday's game. The Rangers had lots of problems getting the puck away from the Devils in the first period. The Devils are not a fast team but they have big forwards. They try to slow the game down by clogging the neutral zone--sticking it deep in our end and working the puck around the boards and corners. Get a line or defense pairing out to long and wear them down. They've done this before against us with some success and it's a style that lesser teams often use successfully against more talented teams in the playoffs.
The difference between the Devils and Western teams is that the Western teams have size AND speed. Not just size.

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
01-27-2014, 09:42 AM
  #391
mschmidt64
Registered User
 
mschmidt64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 828
vCash: 500
We have a couple guys with size and speed like Nash and Kreider.

FWIW, if New Jersey falls out of the race, would a guy like Jagr be available for cheap?

mschmidt64 is offline  
Old
01-27-2014, 09:48 AM
  #392
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,185
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschmidt64 View Post
We have a couple guys with size and speed like Nash and Kreider.

FWIW, if New Jersey falls out of the race, would a guy like Jagr be available for cheap?
Not cheap, I'm sure. Probably looking at a 2nd + very good prospect at the very least, and they wouldn't deal him to the Rangers most likely.

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
01-27-2014, 09:54 AM
  #393
Raspewtin
MayDeathNeverStopYou
 
Raspewtin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Howard Beach, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,326
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Not cheap, I'm sure. Probably looking at a 2nd + very good prospect at the very least, and they wouldn't deal him to the Rangers most likely.
The Rangers aren't in a position to deal assets for rentals, anyway.

Raspewtin is offline  
Old
01-27-2014, 10:49 AM
  #394
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,746
vCash: 500
I saw AV on the NHL Network on Saturday. He said the major difference btwn the east and west is size at center. Backes,Berglund,Thornton, Getzlaf,Kopitar,Richards,Kesler,etc. The Rangers have Stepan,Richards and Brassard. The Rangers really need more size at center. Miller has to be that guy because there's no one else. He is more than a point per game player in the AHL this season. Miller played well in his third stint at center before Callahan returned from his latest injury. The Rangers need more size on the wings too. Besides Kreider and Nash,where's the beef? If you look at players in the system such as Fast and Kristo,more small wingers. Now both of them are righties which the Rangers need. Fast had a great weekend. He needs to stay away from the injuries.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
01-27-2014, 10:51 AM
  #395
Rust Heisenberg
Registered User
 
Rust Heisenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,467
vCash: 50
Something being kind of left behind - the knock on AV and his alleged inability to manage a game, during the game. I remember when we signed him we would hear stories of how stubborn he was and how ineffective he was to changing his game plan during the course of the actual game.

He's definitely managed in game this season and we've been better because of it. Think its worth praising. The guy may have his faults but i've been pleasantly surprised by him this season.

Rust Heisenberg is offline  
Old
01-27-2014, 10:52 AM
  #396
Rust Heisenberg
Registered User
 
Rust Heisenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,467
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
The Rangers aren't in a position to deal assets for rentals, anyway.
Oh they're in perfect striking position, in Glen's book.

Rust Heisenberg is offline  
Old
01-27-2014, 10:55 AM
  #397
Rust Heisenberg
Registered User
 
Rust Heisenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,467
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Not cheap, I'm sure. Probably looking at a 2nd + very good prospect at the very least, and they wouldn't deal him to the Rangers most likely.
I wouldn't mind signing Jagr to a 1 year deal in the offseason and retiring him as a Ranger.

He's making 4 mill this year. 3.5 wouldn't be out of the picture. Trade Brassard, substitute with Jagr.

Rust Heisenberg is offline  
Old
01-27-2014, 10:58 AM
  #398
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,185
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
I saw AV on the NHL Network on Saturday. He said the major difference btwn the east and west is size at center. Backes,Berglund,Thornton, Getzlaf,Kopitar,Richards,Kesler,etc. The Rangers have Stepan,Richards and Brassard. The Rangers really need more size at center. Miller has to be that guy because there's no one else. He is more than a point per game player in the AHL this season. Miller played well in his third stint at center before Callahan returned from his latest injury. The Rangers need more size on the wings too. Besides Kreider and Nash,where's the beef? If you look at players in the system such as Fast and Kristo,more small wingers. Now both of them are righties which the Rangers need. Fast had a great weekend. He needs to stay away from the injuries.
Agreed. But those big guys have to be able to skate well.

It's a big issue being so undersized at the center ice position. Speed is a strength of this team but come playoff time, the games get clogged up. You need the size and strength to break down defenses. I don't think the Rangers have that yet.

Miller will help. I actually think McIlrath will help dole out some punishment when he makes it as well. But besides them, and this has been a point I have been harping on for years, where is the size with any sort of nastiness to it? Someone who will go out there and make opposing defenses take notice because they are legitimately afraid of being steamrolled.

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
01-27-2014, 11:02 AM
  #399
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,185
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
I wouldn't mind signing Jagr to a 1 year deal in the offseason and retiring him as a Ranger.

He's making 4 mill this year. 3.5 wouldn't be out of the picture. Trade Brassard, substitute with Jagr.
Brassard is a center. Jagr is a winger. Trade Brassard, buyout Richards, Moore and Boyle walk. That leaves Stepan and Miller, possibly Lindberg.

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
01-27-2014, 11:07 AM
  #400
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Agreed. But those big guys have to be able to skate well.

It's a big issue being so undersized at the center ice position. Speed is a strength of this team but come playoff time, the games get clogged up. You need the size and strength to break down defenses. I don't think the Rangers have that yet.

Miller will help. I actually think McIlrath will help dole out some punishment when he makes it as well. But besides them, and this has been a point I have been harping on for years, where is the size with any sort of nastiness to it? Someone who will go out there and make opposing defenses take notice because they are legitimately afraid of being steamrolled.
The only way to get those guys is in the draft or if you trade Simmonds and Schenn for Richards like LA did.

RangerBoy is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:47 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.