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Old
01-27-2014, 05:12 PM
  #451
Matt Carle Place
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Originally Posted by Dr. Ogrodnick View Post
If the Rangers end up paying Zuc 4-5 mil per and Girardi 7, Callahan isn't coming back.
Dear god, Girardi at $7 mill AAV would be a joke. I'd give him $5.5-$5.8 mill MAX (assuming he demands at least 6 years).

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Old
01-27-2014, 05:14 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Matt Carle Place View Post
I think it's just the fact that we're the second most valuable team in hockey. Agents know we have the money and will spend it freely.

Also, giving Girardi and Callahan either a NMC or a NTC would make my head explode.
In the cap world,there isn't much money to go around.

Most of the group III free agents get a NMC or NTC. Even if its a limited NTC.

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Old
01-27-2014, 05:18 PM
  #453
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Basically the owners capped the players salaries to create larger profits for themselves. What the players make are fantastic sums to the greatest majority of us--but the idea that this is a free marketplace at work is not exactly a bullseye either. To critique a player for not taking a large financial hit to accommodate his owner who is basically trying to maximize and increase his own and even more outrageous wealth seems to me just a little bit ****ed up.

In any case I haven't said what the Rangers should do in Callahan's or Girardi's case--I've just suggested what they won't do. I have huge doubts they will move either and especially Girardi if the Rangers are still in the playoff picture come the trade deadline. But even in Callahan's case--trading your captain and locker room leader when you're fighting for the playoffs is an extremely unlikely scenario--even if he's dropped down a bit in the food chain.

The suggestion yesterday by one poster that someday we'll look back at Callahan the way we look at Kisio now is on the money. A good player--a hard worker but in no way a special player. I get that and I get that his next contract is probably going to be a bit more than he's worth even by today's standards and that maybe it will be time for him to move elsewhere. The Rangers still are not going to blow off their playoff hopes to pick up a couple prospects/draft picks. It's just not the way they do things. It's not just the money--it's the perception of what the team has done recently--they market on perception. Trading your captain calls for a sales job to the fans. Going to the playoffs doesn't. It's business as usual and Sather and Dolan don't have to go to the trouble of explaining what they're up to to Joe Public.

If Callahan walks--it's saved money that's likely going to go to someone else. Rangers need to work very hard to get their player development back on track but I still don't see this happening. Rangers go on a long hard losing streak and drop out of the playoff picture--then it's a lot more likely.

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Old
01-27-2014, 05:21 PM
  #454
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The Rangers and Newport have touched base on Zuccarello. Stop coaching Pat spoke to Craig Oster of Newport. They will wait. The Rangers have enough issues.

Look at his numbers. 23-34-57 are his on pace numbers. That player is worth $3.5M-$4M. A report from Norway brought up Brad Marchand at $4.5M as a comparable. Who gave them that one?

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Old
01-27-2014, 05:27 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
We're talking about a guy that will have zero idea what hes doing at 37, 38 years old. I never blame pro athletes for milking every dime when their future is very uncertain.

Sooner or later, as a fan, you realize that you care about the players FAR more than they care about you. The notion that Callahan will take some sort of hometown discount because hes "our captain" is a crock.
Although you are right, I don't believe that is what he was implying.

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Old
01-27-2014, 05:28 PM
  #456
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Because Zuccarello is an RFA they can afford to put him off for as long as they need. I think 4 years, 4 million per is the number that has been tossed around.

In a rising cap I think that has the potential to be a really good deal. It's also not a disaster if he doesn't improve after this season. I haven't seen anything to indicate that Zuccarello is overtaxing himself for a contract, or anything in his personality to make me think that he would become complacent.

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Old
01-27-2014, 05:44 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Matt Carle Place View Post
I think it's just the fact that we're the second most valuable team in hockey. Agents know we have the money and will spend it freely.
Also, giving Girardi and Callahan either a NMC or a NTC would make my head explode.
Plenty of examples out there of "hometown" contracts on big market teams.

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Old
01-27-2014, 06:00 PM
  #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Because Zuccarello is an RFA they can afford to put him off for as long as they need. I think 4 years, 4 million per is the number that has been tossed around.

In a rising cap I think that has the potential to be a really good deal. It's also not a disaster if he doesn't improve after this season. I haven't seen anything to indicate that Zuccarello is overtaxing himself for a contract, or anything in his personality to make me think that he would become complacent.
i'm thinking a bit over 4... 4.25-4.8... i don't think 5 is realistic. he's got some ammo in that the organization didn't handle him so well, and he's arguably been our biggest difference-maker for awhile now.

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Old
01-27-2014, 06:12 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by Matt Carle Place View Post
Dear god, Girardi at $7 mill AAV would be a joke. I'd give him $5.5-$5.8 mill MAX (assuming he demands at least 6 years).
Giving Girardi more than McDonagh is a huge long term mistake.

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Old
01-27-2014, 06:14 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by Savant View Post
Giving Girardi more than McDonagh is a huge long term mistake.
You can't compare UFA and RFA contracts. McDonagh makes a lot more come UFA years, just like Staal did.

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Old
01-27-2014, 06:21 PM
  #461
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g imo will get between 5-5.5 AAV for 5-6year

Cally imo if we dont move him will get prob 5.5-5.75 for 4-5 years

i honestly hope with limited center by trade and bare to the bone FA crop, Rangers brass don't decide to keep richards around..

with that said adn limited trade market with us not wanting to give our big names..

would you guys be open to Vanek and what would you give him as FA this summer..

Kreider-Step-nash
Vanek-brass-MZA
hags-Miller-X/Callahan

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Old
01-27-2014, 06:23 PM
  #462
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Giving Girardi more than McDonagh is a huge long term mistake.
With Girardi it is all about term. He will get the $$$ being a impending UFA. The question is how long of a deal does he sign? I don't mind him at 6 million if it is only for another 4 years. I don't want him at 6 million if it is another 6-7 years.

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Old
01-27-2014, 06:27 PM
  #463
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I think there is way too much optimism about what Girardi and Callahan will sign for. Both would be among the best players to hit the market at their positions in what is shaping up to be a thin FA market with a Cap that's going up. Plus you are talking about players with intangibles that will be financially overrated by GMs around the league. It is also looking like neither is too interested in much of a home town discount.

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Old
01-27-2014, 06:28 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
g imo will get between 5-5.5 AAV for 5-6year

Cally imo if we dont move him will get prob 5.5-5.75 for 4-5 years

i honestly hope with limited center by trade and bare to the bone FA crop, Rangers brass don't decide to keep richards around..

with that said adn limited trade market with us not wanting to give our big names..

would you guys be open to Vanek and what would you give him as FA this summer..

Kreider-Step-nash
Vanek-brass-MZA
hags-Miller-X/Callahan
Let me get this straight. You want to sign Girardi and Callahan to behemoth contracts, give raises to Brassard and Zucc. And then sign Vanek. And then put a 5.75 million dollar player on the third line.

Yeah, OK.

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Old
01-27-2014, 06:29 PM
  #465
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6 million is too much for a blueliner who doesn't provide any offense. For any term, honestly. Staal's UFA number of about 5.5 million, that's the high number I'd pay for a shutdown guy.

I'd offer 7 years, 5 million. Girardi gets his term, Rangers get a good cap hit, and by the time Girardi is a third pair guy at age 36, the cap hit is small relative to the higher cap number.

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Old
01-27-2014, 06:43 PM
  #466
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6 million is too much for a blueliner who doesn't provide any offense. For any term, honestly. Staal's UFA number of about 5.5 million, that's the high number I'd pay for a shutdown guy.
I'd offer 7 years, 5 million. Girardi gets his term, Rangers get a good cap hit, and by the time Girardi is a third pair guy at age 36, the cap hit is small relative to the higher cap number.
If it's long term, then $6m is a bit high. However, I really don't think a $6m salary is high for a first-pair blueliner without offense. The ones that do are worth $7m+ on the open market.

In 2010, when Staal signed his deal, 5.45m was about 9% of the $59.4m cap. I don't know of any contracts designed to take into account a rising cap. Staal's deal fell in line with other contracts regarding the raise in UFA years. 9% of next year's Cap will be a little over $6m. Girardi deserves that kind of deal. Whether or not it works for the Rangers is a different story, but that's what market is.

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Old
01-27-2014, 06:46 PM
  #467
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i'm thinking a bit over 4... 4.25-4.8... i don't think 5 is realistic. he's got some ammo in that the organization didn't handle him so well, and he's arguably been our biggest difference-maker for awhile now.
I think 4's even too much. He's given us half of a good season so far (also think he's really playing over his head/getting a lot of puck luck this season) and his current AAV is $1.15mil. I think something around $2.8-3mil/2-3 years would be his next step.

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Old
01-27-2014, 06:50 PM
  #468
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Let me get this straight. You want to sign Girardi and Callahan to behemoth contracts, give raises to Brassard and Zucc. And then sign Vanek. And then put a 5.75 million dollar player on the third line.

Yeah, OK.
who said anything about giving raises to Brass? zucc will obviously.. but i dont see a long term deal to brass prob 2-3yr deal max..

so 5m cap hit and 5.5 for them are behemoth contracts? and its called depth and evening out the lines.. AV rolls 4 lines a game anyway, and top 3 lines range 15-20min, cally gets his PP and PK.. so whats the issue with that? i am only seeing what people would think about Vanek..bc FA and on the trade block its bleak..

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Old
01-27-2014, 06:51 PM
  #469
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who said anything about giving raises to Brass? zucc will obviously.. but i dont see a long term deal to brass prob 2-3yr deal max..

so 5m cap hit and 5.5 for them are behemoth contracts? and its called depth and evening out the lines.. AV rolls 4 lines a game anyway, and top 3 lines range 15-20min, cally gets his PP and PK.. so whats the issue with that? i am only seeing what people would think about Vanek..bc FA and on the trade block its bleak..
There's this thing called the salary cap.

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Old
01-27-2014, 06:51 PM
  #470
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I think the Rangers are making a big mistake by going after another winger at a high caphit. They need to address their center depth as I believe Brassard and Richards aren't viable long term options. The problem is, #1Cs are never available so the Rangers will have it tough to be considered true contenders.

Stepan can be that guy, but ideally you'd need a 2nd option.

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01-27-2014, 06:52 PM
  #471
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I saw AV on the NHL Network on Saturday. He said the major difference btwn the east and west is size at center. Backes,Berglund,Thornton, Getzlaf,Kopitar,Richards,Kesler,etc. The Rangers have Stepan,Richards and Brassard. The Rangers really need more size at center. Miller has to be that guy because there's no one else. He is more than a point per game player in the AHL this season. Miller played well in his third stint at center before Callahan returned from his latest injury. The Rangers need more size on the wings too. Besides Kreider and Nash,where's the beef? If you look at players in the system such as Fast and Kristo,more small wingers. Now both of them are righties which the Rangers need. Fast had a great weekend. He needs to stay away from the injuries.
That's why we should have given Mashinter a chance.....Paging Chris Stewart....

Speaking of size and Jagr, I love that post move he has where he backs you up with that big ole but of his and gets off a turnaround shot (insert joke here)...

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01-27-2014, 06:56 PM
  #472
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Let me get this straight. You want to sign Girardi and Callahan to behemoth contracts, give raises to Brassard and Zucc. And then sign Vanek. And then put a 5.75 million dollar player on the third line.

Yeah, OK.
6 Bickels on D and the cap works!!

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Old
01-27-2014, 07:14 PM
  #473
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There's this thing called the salary cap.
oh really? i had no idea until you mentioned that.. thanks for letting me know..

im just asking if for some amazing reason we have cap or callahan doesn't resign would Vanek be someone you want to target..

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Old
01-27-2014, 07:16 PM
  #474
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oh really? i had no idea until you mentioned that.. thanks for letting me know..

im just asking if for some amazing reason we have cap or callahan doesn't resign would Vanek be someone you want to target..
If he was a center. But he's not, and that's our weakest position. The rangers can't keep ignoring the most or second most important position on the ice.

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Old
01-27-2014, 07:18 PM
  #475
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Who else besides Anaheim really wants Girardi?
Drive up the price.
Boston? SJ?

at this point, is there a clear consensus on who will pay TOP dollar?

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