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Trade Rumor Thread XIII

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Old
01-28-2014, 01:25 AM
  #526
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Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
OT but I'm not sold on Tampa at all. Their defense is on and off and Bishop is a one year wonder. There's no way he doesn't come back down to earth. Still, they're scary with Drouin potentially joining them for a playoff push. I'm very confident the Rangers can beat them in a seven game series.

Boston is still the only team in the East that scares me.
We just don't match up well against the Pens. We never have. Fleury will not melt down against our pop gun offense.

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01-28-2014, 01:33 AM
  #527
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Under Torts I never had faith in beating the Pens in a seven game series. Under AV, I do. Teams like the Flyers beat the Pens because they brought the game to Pittsburgh instead of trying to defend Crosby, Malkin and their cronies. If you keep the puck in the Penguin end, you keep the puck away from their skill guys and pressure Fleury into giving up the WTF goals he's known for.

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01-28-2014, 01:38 AM
  #528
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Originally Posted by BrianBoyle View Post
Tampa Bay is right there with Boston

And, oh yeah, they are without Stamkos

So yeah
Tampa is a Ben Bishop slump away from regressing big time. Of course that factors in Stamkos' injury. Even when he does come back, they're still too reliant on offense for my liking. I do think Bishop is the real deal, so this all may be for naught. Still need to see it from him for the rest of the season, though. Then I'll buy what Tampa is selling.

Their group of defenseman are less than impressive, IMO.

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01-28-2014, 01:51 AM
  #529
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Depends what happens with Ryan Miller, but I still think Callahan ends up on the Blues by the deadline.

With Steen's injuries, Morrow being pretty much cooked and Stewart extremely streaky, Callahan would be the ultimate luxury 2nd/3rd line winger for them, and would give their average PK a huge boost.

Callahan for Jaskin, '14 1st, low level prospect and/or pick based on resigning clause.
I could see this happening. I'll mark your words.

Also think girardi will be signing for $5.5M for 4-5 years. Guy thrives on playing time and we cannot afford to lose both Girardi and stralman without sinking the performance of our d by a large margin.(personally I think both should be kept and our d corps left alone)

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Old
01-28-2014, 05:26 AM
  #530
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We just don't match up well against the Pens. We never have. Fleury will not melt down against our pop gun offense.
The Penguins melt down against good defensive teams.

If McDonagh/Girardi/Staal/Stralman keep beasting it against them, the series is over in 6.

Also, if Kreider is doing his thing where he trucks everybody, the series will be over in 5.

The Penguins in the playoffs don't scare me at all.

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01-28-2014, 05:30 AM
  #531
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If Girardi gets 6 mill I will flip my ****ing desk.

THis is ridiculous. If the contract isn't done by now, there's a clear reason why. I don't buy this "contracts are distracting" ********. Brooks writes that Girardi + Callahan and the team aren't even close to a deal. Trade them at the deadline. Because that tells me they want an overpayment, and if anyone's going to give it to them it is Sather. We can't lose them for nothing. It just can't happen.

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01-28-2014, 06:23 AM
  #532
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
If Girardi gets 6 mill I will flip my ****ing desk.

THis is ridiculous. If the contract isn't done by now, there's a clear reason why. I don't buy this "contracts are distracting" ********. Brooks writes that Girardi + Callahan and the team aren't even close to a deal. Trade them at the deadline. Because that tells me they want an overpayment, and if anyone's going to give it to them it is Sather. We can't lose them for nothing. It just can't happen.
Deals aren't done because Slats is fighting for his death to keep contracts as short as possible.

We should focus on two things, AAV and trade restrictions. If a contract can be moved, that contract always has a positive value. One can question if the return we could get now for these guys is higher than what we could get in three years, but as long as they could be moved I have no worries whatsoever.

These loosers in our front-office must wake up. Long contracts aren't negative, they are positive. Look at the market, everyone want to take on term. The cap is going to sky-rocket and everyone knows it. I saw someone above talking about Staal being "worth 4-5m" since he doesn't score much. In what world are people living in? The cap in two seasons will be 33% higher than what it is today. If Staal is worth 5m today, he is worth 7.5m in two years. I am sorry, but in an adult world, you can pretend real life to be something its not.

This is starting to piss me off.

In 2009, when the cap was 56.8m, Calgary Flames gave Jay Bouwmeester a five year deal worth $6.680.000. That is 11.7% of their cap. When Staal hit the UFA market, the cap will be 80+m. 11.7% of a 80m cap is 9.4m per.

A struggling Jay Bouwmeester was then traded by the Flames, with one year left on his contracts, to STL for a 1st and two pretty decent prospects.

Staal is playing better and better. His concussion has been a hick-up, so far at least. There are a bunch of teams that would want him. There are no players available. He is getting paid. Everyone will get paid. We will need to pay players on our team to be able to ice even a decent team.

I have no doubt that Cally and Girardi want to stay in NY. Especially if we can give them the security of a long-term deal. We should never even discuss anything else than a 8 year deal. With that they secure their living. Than add an extensive limited NTC. 22 teams or whatever. They secure that they will play for a team they want to play for. But we would still be able to move them at any given time. Ie that they always will have a positive value for us and we will always have flexibility. Then aim at an AAV for the both of them totalling no more than 12m per. We can keep just about everyone (Boyle?) with that AAV. Front-load the contracts to the extent possible with max signing bonuses etc. There will be many -- I repeat, many -- budget teams in this league as the cap rise. This gives us even more flexibility. If their actual salary is 3m per after 5 years, they are assets to half the league that wouldn't look at cap hit at all. Heck, many would look at cap hit as something positive...

But knowing Slats, he will want to start with 4 or 5 year contracts. Of course, then the AAV will be 7m, if not more...

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01-28-2014, 06:29 AM
  #533
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A few mantra's many just should repeat over and over again.

1. The cap is going up. 71m next year. 80m after that. In "Y3", as an absolute minimum, 5% raise per year from the PA bumper alone. Calculate on 7% if you want any realistic numbers. Its 100m in a hurry.

2. Long contracts are good contracts. With the cap going up and lack of players on the market, with an guaranteed expansion of the league etc, people will look for players.

3. With the cap going up, salary will matter for half the league, not cap hit. If you can front load a 8-year contract, you got a tremendous asset on your hands after 4-5 years. Imagine to have a salary of 3m per, a cap-hit of 6m per, and 3-4 year left for a veteran like Cally and Girardi, with a cap at 100+m, that is a golden asset for then to be vets like Cally and Girardi. They wouldn't even be +35 at that time.

4. Prepare for the expension draft. Its coming, and you gotta be able to make players available.

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Old
01-28-2014, 06:30 AM
  #534
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We are -- as always -- so stupid on our approch to these things.

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Old
01-28-2014, 06:50 AM
  #535
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post

3. With the cap going up, salary will matter for half the league, not cap hit. If you can front load a 8-year contract, you got a tremendous asset on your hands after 4-5 years. Imagine to have a salary of 3m per, a cap-hit of 6m per, and 3-4 year left for a veteran like Cally and Girardi, with a cap at 100+m, that is a golden asset for then to be vets like Cally and Girardi. They wouldn't even be +35 at that time.
This, people need to read this over and over and over.

The salary cap is going to skyrocket and the bottom teams in the league revenue wise will have an extremly hard time spending anywhere near the mid range of the cap let one getting above the floor.

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Old
01-28-2014, 06:52 AM
  #536
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Im guessing Callahan and Girardi both want north of 6 million. Girardi I would seriously consider it for. I wouldn't give Callahan a dime over 5. I wouldn't be the least bit upset if we lost Callahan for unreasonable contract demands like 6 million++

Give Zucc a 4 x 4 deal. Buy out Richards, let Callahan walk and throw 6+ million at Stastny.
I'm on mobile so it would be a ***** to check, but would we have space for all that without a Richards buyout? The only risk in not buying him out is the cap recapture penalty, but the cap could be over $90M by then.

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01-28-2014, 08:12 AM
  #537
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What's stopping Callahan or Girardi from using the same argument? Caps going up a bunch in 2-4 years, well we want to be compensated accordingly. It works both ways.

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01-28-2014, 08:35 AM
  #538
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What's stopping Callahan or Girardi from using the same argument? Caps going up a bunch in 2-4 years, well we want to be compensated accordingly. It works both ways.
Agreed. But we are not far from what I predict the "painlimit" on the market is for Cally and G. There is a cap next year too, plenty of players are looking for raises.

I just have a hard time seeing anyone going north of 7m per. At least if they do not finnish the season on an aboslut tear or something. If they are prepared to take the highest offer, some will always outbid us. But if they want to go to an up-and-coming team or contender, you know, it seems like many would go about as high as we. We can offer 8 years, other teams can offer 7.

Slats should come out and give them a take it and leave it offer. 8 years. Max front-loaded. Limited NTC with a number of teams Cally and G feels acceptable with. Maybe try to creep a little south of 6m AAV per over 8 years with Girardi and with Cally, don't go as high as the two combine 12m per in AAV.

Slats should throw Strålman a 6 year 21m deal. Its his best years. Strålman is only getting better, and with his light body he will not break down. He would only be 33-34 y/o at the end of that contract. He would always be an asset for us.

Its those type of deals that will help us in the future, not the opposite. 2-4 years from now, they will be great value.

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Old
01-28-2014, 08:39 AM
  #539
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I'm on mobile so it would be a ***** to check, but would we have space for all that without a Richards buyout? The only risk in not buying him out is the cap recapture penalty, but the cap could be over $90M by then.
Well, the way I see it is the money we gave Richards would essentially go to Stastny. That is a wash.

Girardi's cap hit is 3.3. Callahans is 4.25. Zucc is 1.1 for a total of 8.65 million. Salary cap will be at least 70 million next year (IIRC 71 was confirmed, correct?) That gives you a 6.7 million cap increase from 64.3 to 71. It would be tough but it is doable.

If we give Girardi 6 million, 2.65 would be left for Zucc. That means we would only have to create an additional 1.35 million in cap space for him.

You buy out Richards regardless. He is 33. Stastny is 28. Give Stastny a 6 year deal. He is more likely to play out his contract than Richards would. Richie will be 34 this year putting him at 40 when his deal ends. If you sign Stastny to a 6 year deal, he would only be 34/35 when his deal ends.

You have Stastny as your #1, Stepan as #2 Brass as #3. Next year hopefully Miller will be ready for full time 3C duties and you trade Brass for another asset at the deadline next year. IMO this would be best case scenario for us.

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Old
01-28-2014, 08:41 AM
  #540
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Well that makes more sense.

Zuccarello is easily the player we need to sign the most in my mind as opposed to Callahan and/or Girardi.
That is how i see it as well.

Think of it as a stock market. With Callahan and Girardi, at best they plateau, and more likely, they decline over time. not a good investment. Zucc at worst plateaus, with a slight chance of improvement (maybe not so much in points production, but in other aspects of the game as he learns the NHL more and more).

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01-28-2014, 08:49 AM
  #541
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
A few mantra's many just should repeat over and over again.

1. The cap is going up. 71m next year. 80m after that. In "Y3", as an absolute minimum, 5% raise per year from the PA bumper alone. Calculate on 7% if you want any realistic numbers. Its 100m in a hurry.

2. Long contracts are good contracts. With the cap going up and lack of players on the market, with an guaranteed expansion of the league etc, people will look for players.

3. With the cap going up, salary will matter for half the league, not cap hit. If you can front load a 8-year contract, you got a tremendous asset on your hands after 4-5 years. Imagine to have a salary of 3m per, a cap-hit of 6m per, and 3-4 year left for a veteran like Cally and Girardi, with a cap at 100+m, that is a golden asset for then to be vets like Cally and Girardi. They wouldn't even be +35 at that time.

4. Prepare for the expension draft. Its coming, and you gotta be able to make players available.
This is another angle at looking at it and there's a lot to be said for this. If not $80 mil two summer from now it will be close. Other teams are making sure that their best players don't reach free agency. Very little in the way of first line or first pairing material available this summer. Of the best of those who do leave it's mainly the same things--they're either very old or they haven't been with their teams long enough and want out or they're playing for losing teams.

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Old
01-28-2014, 08:54 AM
  #542
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The more I think about it, the more it doesn't seem crazy far fetched for the Rangers to pull a Stastny for Girardi UFA swap.

I would hate it. I think Stastny is doomed to be a huge UFA bust. He's just not that good.

But I could see the Rangers doing it. They desperately need another C for next season. Given their current place in the standings I have 0 doubt they want some NHL ready talent back for UFAs, much as I disagree. Colorado can shift ROR back to C and shore up their D for a playoff push.

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01-28-2014, 08:58 AM
  #543
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That is how i see it as well.

Think of it as a stock market. With Callahan and Girardi, at best they plateau, and more likely, they decline over time. not a good investment. Zucc at worst plateaus, with a slight chance of improvement (maybe not so much in points production, but in other aspects of the game as he learns the NHL more and more).
To be fair, as good as Zucc has been you have to include some risk that this season is an outlier as well. He has far from a long track record. Still, they need to sign him clearly.

On the stock market analogy: it's not so black and white. What if the money supply is drastically increasing (Cap rising aka "NHL QE")? Then it makes sense to lock in assets at today's values.

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01-28-2014, 09:00 AM
  #544
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The more I think about it, the more it doesn't seem crazy far fetched for the Rangers to pull a Stastny for Girardi UFA swap.

I would hate it. I think Stastny is doomed to be a huge UFA bust. He's just not that good.

But I could see the Rangers doing it. They desperately need another C for next season. Given their current place in the standings I have 0 doubt they want some NHL ready talent back for UFAs, much as I disagree. Colorado can shift ROR back to C and shore up their D for a playoff push.
Seeing as we asked form a 1st round pick for DZ, I'm not so sure about that. Maybe we're asking for a 1st and Barrie for Girardi? Seems odd we're still scouting the Avs. They played Dallas last night. They have a few pieces that would make sense for this team.

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01-28-2014, 09:07 AM
  #545
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Barrie and a 1st for Girardi is a good deal, me thinks. Colorado will be out in the 1st round anyway. So that's a mid round first .

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01-28-2014, 09:21 AM
  #546
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
The more I think about it, the more it doesn't seem crazy far fetched for the Rangers to pull a Stastny for Girardi UFA swap.

I would hate it. I think Stastny is doomed to be a huge UFA bust. He's just not that good.

But I could see the Rangers doing it. They desperately need another C for next season. Given their current place in the standings I have 0 doubt they want some NHL ready talent back for UFAs, much as I disagree. Colorado can shift ROR back to C and shore up their D for a playoff push.
Mentioned it before, but I could see the team flipping Brassard for Chris Stewart, hoping that Stewart would help entice Stastny as a UFA. I don't see it before the trade deadline though. Unless of course the Rangers did acquire Stastny before hand.

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01-28-2014, 09:31 AM
  #547
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Trade Callahan.
No way around it at this point. From all accounts, his contract demands are simply too much. He can't stay healthy. Let some other team give him a fat contract.

Trade one of Girardi or Stralman, depending on contract demands.
I would try and keep Girardi, if there's any way you can come to a mutually beneficial contract. If so, get what you can for Stralman, and give Klein his minutes. If not, lock Stralman into a 3-4 year deal around $3.5M.

Trade one of Boyle or Moore.
This probably depends on what Boyle's contract demands are going to be, to be honest. If you can keep Boyle for under $2M, I lock him into a 3-4 year deal. Either way, you should be able to get a team to pony up a 2nd round draft pick (or equivalent value) for either player.

Re-sign Pouliot (only if he comes cheap)
Very inconsistent offensively, but what 3rd liner isn't? If he's not looking for much of a raise, I would keep him for quality depth.

Re-sign Zuccarello
Zucc is an integral part of our team now, and has to be retained. Try to keep the cap hit down by giving him term.

Re-sign Kreider
No brainer.

Make a decision on Brassard
Is he part of our team moving forward? With Richards almost certainly getting bought out, we really can't afford to lose him unless we have a replacement. If we do manage to trade/acquire the heir apparent for the 2C slot, maybe swap his RFA rights for a RFA wing's rights.

Re-sign John Moore
Another no brainer. Still has loads of potential, and should come cheap.

Re-sign Justin Falk
Cheap depth.

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01-28-2014, 09:34 AM
  #548
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Would it be so bad...

I'm not in love with the idea, but feel its worth considering:
Would it be so bad to keep C+G for the play-off run (they have value to this team, would be tough to replace, hurt locker room to have them leave), and then trade their negotiating rights in the off-season?

The standard for such deals seems to be a 4th rounder, but perhaps we could trade both rights for a 1st, like that NSH-PHI deal.

Sure, a 4th rounder isn't great, but keep in mind ---

"The Rangers were busy moving veterans around in the summer of 2003, having also traded Brian Leetch’s negotiating rights to the Edmonton Oilers for Jussi Markkanen and a 2004 fourth round draft choice. Leetch eventually re-signed in New York, while that fourth rounder would eventually become Ryan Callahan."

- http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2011/0...iating-rights/

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01-28-2014, 09:36 AM
  #549
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I'm not in love with the idea, but feel its worth considering:
Would it be so bad to keep C+G for the play-off run (they have value to this team, would be tough to replace, hurt locker room to have them leave), and then trade their negotiating rights in the off-season?

The standard for such deals seems to be a 4th rounder, but perhaps we could trade both rights for a 1st, like that NSH-PHI deal.

Sure, a 4th rounder isn't great, but keep in mind ---

"The Rangers were busy moving veterans around in the summer of 2003, having also traded Brian Leetch’s negotiating rights to the Edmonton Oilers for Jussi Markkanen and a 2004 fourth round draft choice. Leetch eventually re-signed in New York, while that fourth rounder would eventually become Ryan Callahan."

- http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2011/0...iating-rights/
Would you rather MAYBE getting two fifth round picks while we lose in the second round of the playoffs?

Or, knowing full well were not in a position to be buyers, sell off Girardi and Callahan, let some other team give in to their stupid contract demands, and recoup a ton of useful assets?

Unless every offer for Callahan/Girardi is totally underwhelming, one or both should be traded.

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01-28-2014, 09:36 AM
  #550
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I'm not in love with the idea, but feel its worth considering:
Would it be so bad to keep C+G for the play-off run (they have value to this team, would be tough to replace, hurt locker room to have them leave), and then trade their negotiating rights in the off-season?

The standard for such deals seems to be a 4th rounder, but perhaps we could trade both rights for a 1st, like that NSH-PHI deal.

Sure, a 4th rounder isn't great, but keep in mind ---

"The Rangers were busy moving veterans around in the summer of 2003, having also traded Brian Leetch’s negotiating rights to the Edmonton Oilers for Jussi Markkanen and a 2004 fourth round draft choice. Leetch eventually re-signed in New York, while that fourth rounder would eventually become Ryan Callahan."

- http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2011/0...iating-rights/
Bad asset management. Old man Glen needs to man up and make tough decisions, for once.

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