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Trade Rumor Thread XIII

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01-28-2014, 12:28 PM
  #676
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
You call Staal's camp and make sure he's leaning on resigning here/ready to do so.

You take Girardi's trade if Staal is in the longterm plan.

You then reference Shane Doan to Callahan's agent and offer a pro-rated contract similar to that. If he then says no, you trade him for veteran leadership in return. Call Torts, try and extract Kessler out of there.

I don't think trading both is wise at all. I think we'll be without an identity for some time if we trade both, especially if we get prospect returns. But if we absolutely must move on from them, one of them needs to be for prospects, the other needs to return veteran leadership with the same fighting mentality.
You're implying we have an identity now? Cause we certainly don't..

Girardi and Callahan are the anti-AV players I'd go as far to say. They're both awful with the puck, Girardi can't push the pace, Callahan has bad offensive hockey IQ.

Part of why so many people want to trade them is so we can move forward and create a new identity. Like it or not, this is still half Torts' team, and this is anything but a Torts coached team.

Weed out the players that don't fit it. Now, that's not to say trade every defenseman that can't move the puck, but we have 4 of the same player (Staal, Klein, Girardi, Stralman), one of them is locked up for 5 years, one of them is a much better defenseman than Girardi, and the other has shown good ability to play in this system, and much likely cheaper. How can we make the changes we need to to move forward if we insist on keeping the same players, for the same team?

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01-28-2014, 12:29 PM
  #677
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Originally Posted by Slick Rick 61 View Post
If that's the best offer, I keep Girardi. I'm not sold on Connolly. I get that the Lightning are stacked on the wings, but it's concerning that he can't get an opportunity there. Not too sure about Nesterov, though. Haven't seen much.

For Callahan, I think that's an overpayment, so I take it and run. Hartman is the kind of guy the Rangers love. Probably a middle-six forward, but a guy with some scoring touch who plays an in-your-face game. Loved him at the WJC.

Clendenning addresses an organizational need as well, and he's already proven at the AHL level. Right-handed shooting offensive dmen are hard to find. I take that deal and run.
Uh, Connolly is well above PPG at the AHL level, is 6' 3", a RH shot, and would compliment our top 6 perfectly. That's an awesome deal for Girardi.

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01-28-2014, 12:29 PM
  #678
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Kiss winning goodbye for 2-3 more years.
Because we're winning so much as currently constructed, right?

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01-28-2014, 12:31 PM
  #679
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Originally Posted by Slick Rick 61 View Post
If that's the best offer, I keep Girardi. I'm not sold on Connolly. I get that the Lightning are stacked on the wings, but it's concerning that he can't get an opportunity there. Not too sure about Nesterov, though. Haven't seen much.

For Callahan, I think that's an overpayment, so I take it and run. Hartman is the kind of guy the Rangers love. Probably a middle-six forward, but a guy with some scoring touch who plays an in-your-face game. Loved him at the WJC.

Clendenning addresses an organizational need as well, and he's already proven at the AHL level. Right-handed shooting offensive dmen are hard to find. I take that deal and run.
I still think Connolly will be a very productive winger in the NHL ala Bobby Ryan. He has legit puck skills and size. Either way, if you aren't enamored with that package, say another team offers up a package with similar value, do you take that?

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01-28-2014, 12:32 PM
  #680
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Signing Engelland in the off season is going to make the drafting of McIlrath even more controversial. Not saying don't attempt to sign Engelland because of McIlrath...but, have to say, from what we saw of McI so far, people pencilling him in as ready starting next season may be in for a bad time.
Engelland is a joke of a hockey player. To say that he would bring what McIlrath brings is laughable.

Glad you formed your opinion on McIlrath after 3 NHL regular season games.

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01-28-2014, 12:33 PM
  #681
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Kiss winning goodbye for 2-3 more years.
Why do you say that so surely? The top-6 would still be pretty much intact. They would still have (4) top-4 d-men. Obviously they take a hit but considering some of the young players they will get will be close to NHL ready most likely, I don't get the feeling of doom and gloom.

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01-28-2014, 12:34 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
You're implying we have an identity now? Cause we certainly don't..

Girardi and Callahan are the anti-AV players I'd go as far to say. They're both awful with the puck, Girardi can't push the pace, Callahan has bad offensive hockey IQ.

Part of why so many people want to trade them is so we can move forward and create a new identity. Like it or not, this is still half Torts' team, and this is anything but a Torts coached team.

Weed out the players that don't fit it. Now, that's not to say trade every defenseman that can't move the puck, but we have 4 of the same player (Staal, Klein, Girardi, Stralman), one of them is locked up for 5 years, one of them is a much better defenseman than Girardi, and the other has shown great ability to play in this system. How can we make the changes we need to to move forward if we insist on keeping the same players, for the same team>
I'm in agreement with you about Girardi not fitting the system. It's why I think he's the one who will be traded if either Callahan or Girardi are traded.

We do have an identity. We've been pretty resilient for the last month and a half now. We're not bruisers, but having an identity doesn't mean you need to show it. Having an identity simply means sticking true to who you are and being confident in it. We've accepted the offensive system and are no confident in it... hence we have an identity.

I like Staal more than Girardi, he not only fits the system better, is younger, more physical, but in my opinion he's also better defensively.

That's why you make sure that he has intent to stay. Otherwise, we're looking at trade Staal this offseason/next season too. No bueno.

As for Cally. He needs to weigh his options. Either sign a fair deal - i.e 6 years 5.5 per and remain in the biggest/very attractive city in the US as our captain and face of the franchise... or sell out and go for the money. Neither is wrong. I wouldn't blame him for either. He just needs to weigh his options. And Sather needs to remain firm on his line. If they can't meet eye to eye then... well then he should also be traded. He's not worth 6+ million. We shouldn't lose him, but if that's his line, he doesn't deserve to captain this team any longer.

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01-28-2014, 12:35 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Because we're winning so much as currently constructed, right?
We've looked pretty damn good this last month and a half. Sky is the limit for these guys.

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01-28-2014, 12:35 PM
  #684
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Uh, Connolly is well above PPG at the AHL level, is 6' 3", a RH shot, and would compliment our top 6 perfectly. That's an awesome deal for Girardi.
I'm not the biggest Connolly fan. It's not that he's a big guy that isn't overly physical (hate that big guys are ripped for not putting guys through the boards), but his game is still widely reported as being incomplete and one-dimensional, though little improvement.

Opinions vary greatly on him.

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01-28-2014, 12:37 PM
  #685
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Originally Posted by Slick Rick 61 View Post
I'm not the biggest Connolly fan. It's not that he's a big guy that isn't overly physical (hate that big guys are ripped for not putting guys through the boards), but his game is still widely reported as being incomplete and one-dimensional, though little improvement.

Opinions vary greatly on him.
Let me ask you this, and this is only my opinion, would you take another Kreider on the RW? Because I think Connolly will be a very similar player to what Kredier has been this season when he makes the NHL

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01-28-2014, 12:37 PM
  #686
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
I'm in agreement with you about Girardi not fitting the system. It's why I think he's the one who will be traded if either Callahan or Girardi are traded.

We do have an identity. We've been pretty resilient for the last month and a half now. We're not bruisers, but having an identity doesn't mean you need to show it. Having an identity simply means sticking true to who you are and being confident in it. We've accepted the offensive system and are no confident in it... hence we have an identity.

I like Staal more than Girardi, he not only fits the system better, is younger, more physical, but in my opinion he's also better defensively.

That's why you make sure that he has intent to stay. Otherwise, we're looking at trade Staal this offseason/next season too. No bueno.

As for Cally. He needs to weigh his options. Either sign a fair deal - i.e 6 years 5.5 per and remain in the biggest/very attractive city in the US as our captain and face of the franchise... or sell out and go for the money. Neither is wrong. I wouldn't blame him for either. He just needs to weigh his options. And Sather needs to remain firm on his line. If they can't meet eye to eye then... well then he should also be traded. He's not worth 6+ million. We shouldn't lose him, but if that's his line, he doesn't deserve to captain this team any longer.
I wouldn't call being resilient an identity. Every team in the NHL needs some form of resilience to win.

I'd rather Staal over Girardi 10/10 times, but if Sather is sure Staal wont resign, I'd keep Girardi.

I wouldn't blame him for taking big money either. He's got a family that he needs to feed, he can make his own decisions. But if he wants a ludicrous contract, that he's absolutely entitled to want, I don't want this team giving it to him,

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01-28-2014, 12:38 PM
  #687
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Why do you say that so surely? The top-6 would still be pretty much intact. They would still have (4) top-4 d-men. Obviously they take a hit but considering some of the young players they will get will be close to NHL ready most likely, I don't get the feeling of doom and gloom.
I do. Generally, when teams go through turnover, they take a hit. We kept our top 6 in tact when we turned the depth guys we thought we could replace easily... we took a hit last year and this year.

We're not only losing depth guys, we're now losing 2 core components to our locker room. It'll take at least a couple years to get back to where we want to be. For Chicago... it took 4 years for them to get back to their level of success.

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01-28-2014, 12:39 PM
  #688
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
We've looked pretty damn good this last month and a half. Sky is the limit for these guys.
I definitely think this is a good group, at it's core. However, they're missing a few important pieces.

Top 6 winger with size.
#1 or #1A center
Puck moving OFD

I'm perfectly fine with handing over the reigns to McDonagh + Stepan + Kreider + Nash + Staal + Henrik. Gotta get them players to help them out though.

This is a good group, that can definitely go far soon. But they're missing pieces.

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01-28-2014, 12:40 PM
  #689
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
I wouldn't call being resilient an identity. Every team in the NHL needs some form of resilience to win.

I'd rather Staal over Girardi 10/10 times, but if Sather is sure Staal wont resign, I'd keep Girardi.

I wouldn't blame him for taking big money either. He's got a family that he needs to feed, he can make his own decisions. But if he wants a ludicrous contract, that he's absolutely entitled to want, I don't want this team giving it to him,
Why do they HAVE to keep one or the other?

If Girardi wants too much money he has to be dealt. Same with Staal. There will be other players available via trade or call-up or UFA. Sometimes you have to look elsewhere. Maybe they let Girardi walk and John Moore starts to step up and becomes a solid top-4 d-man with Klein as his partner? Maybe someone like Yandle becomes available and the Rangers are able to swing a deal for him? Maybe they return a player like Barrie who has a high ceiling to be an offensive d-man and he gels really well with McDonagh pushing others down the depth chart.

It's too early to say, well if they lose Girardi, they HAVE to re-sign Staal if he wants to leave or wants too much.

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01-28-2014, 12:41 PM
  #690
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
I do. Generally, when teams go through turnover, they take a hit. We kept our top 6 in tact when we turned the depth guys we thought we could replace easily... we took a hit last year and this year.

We're not only losing depth guys, we're now losing 2 core components to our locker room. It'll take at least a couple years to get back to where we want to be. For Chicago... it took 4 years for them to get back to their level of success.
They were also coming off a Stanley Cup which is difficult for any team and went through A LOT more turnover than what losing Callahan and Girardi would be to this team.

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01-28-2014, 12:42 PM
  #691
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Why do they HAVE to keep one or the other?

If Girardi wants too much money he has to be dealt. Same with Staal. There will be other players available via trade or call-up or UFA. Sometimes you have to look elsewhere. Maybe they let Girardi walk and John Moore starts to step up and becomes a solid top-4 d-man with Klein as his partner? Maybe someone like Yandle becomes available and the Rangers are able to swing a deal for him? Maybe they return a player like Barrie who has a high ceiling to be an offensive d-man and he gels really well with McDonagh pushing others down the depth chart.

It's too early to say, well if they lose Girardi, they HAVE to re-sign Staal if he wants to leave or wants too much.
I think you need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. What you're suggesting is radical. No successful organization does this while they're able to consistently go to the playoffs and remain competitive.

They need to keep one or the other because they need veteran leadership on this team for the new guys. They need players that have grown with the locker room. It just needs to happen.

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01-28-2014, 12:42 PM
  #692
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Why do they HAVE to keep one or the other?

If Girardi wants too much money he has to be dealt. Same with Staal. There will be other players available via trade or call-up or UFA. Sometimes you have to look elsewhere. Maybe they let Girardi walk and John Moore starts to step up and becomes a solid top-4 d-man with Klein as his partner? Maybe someone like Yandle becomes available and the Rangers are able to swing a deal for him? Maybe they return a player like Barrie who has a high ceiling to be an offensive d-man and he gels really well with McDonagh pushing others down the depth chart.

It's too early to say, well if they lose Girardi, they HAVE to re-sign Staal if he wants to leave or wants too much.
I didn't say they HAD to keep anyone or do anything. If Staal isn't going to resign, and we're sure of it, I might give Girardi a little extra money to keep him here.

You realize I'm on your side here, right? I've been calling for a future replacement coming back in a trade this whole time.

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01-28-2014, 12:44 PM
  #693
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Let me ask you this, and this is only my opinion, would you take another Kreider on the RW? Because I think Connolly will be a very similar player to what Kredier has been this season when he makes the NHL
I would definitely take another Kreider, but I would need to see that he's made improvements in the defensive zone like he has (though still room for improvement). He's gotten better but there have definitely been some blown assignments by Kreider.

As for Connolly, I'll say my opinion on him is a bit biased because I went to college in the Tampa area before moving back home. Made friends with some big Lightning fans and we paid deep attention to his development (at NHL level when going to games/on TV, going to prospect camp, etc.).

I throw away his rookie year, when he played the bulk of his games. Tough place for an 18 year old. I do think he was harmed in a similar way Neiderreiter was.

Even if his brief stints the past 2 years, not enough utilization of his size and strength. Even a guy like Kreider gets in on the forecheck with that closing speed, and he's actually pretty good along the wall. I didn't see that from Connolly. Add in the defensive zone gaffes, and my friends and I were mostly in agreement that his development has not gone smoothly. Add in a lack of any semblance of offense, his biggest weapon, and that's why I stand where I do.

Do I think he'll have an NHL career? Yes. But he won't be a top line impact player.

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01-28-2014, 12:44 PM
  #694
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I think you need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. What you're suggesting is radical. No successful organization does this while they're able to consistently go to the playoffs and remain competitive.

They need to keep one or the other because they need veteran leadership on this team for the new guys. They need players that have grown with the locker room. It just needs to happen.
What is your definition of remaining competitive? Getting killed in the playoffs every year?

Well, what this organization is doing now sure as hell isn't successful.

Maybe it's time to try the :radical: option?

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01-28-2014, 12:46 PM
  #695
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What is your definition of remaining competitive? Getting killed in the playoffs every year?

Well, what this organization is doing now sure as hell isn't successful.

Maybe it's time to try the :radical: option?
Getting killed? We tend to overperform every year and play surprisingly well in the playoffs. A hot Henrik will likely take us to the ECF, especially with the offense we've found lately.

We make it past the first round more often than not. Clearly we need to take the next step but it's there for the taking.

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01-28-2014, 12:50 PM
  #696
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
I think you need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. What you're suggesting is radical. No successful organization does this while they're able to consistently go to the playoffs and remain competitive.

They need to keep one or the other because they need veteran leadership on this team for the new guys. They need players that have grown with the locker room. It just needs to happen.
I know it's radical. But it is what a good organization would do in order to remain competitive for the long haul.


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I didn't say they HAD to keep anyone or do anything. If Staal isn't going to resign, and we're sure of it, I might give Girardi a little extra money to keep him here.

You realize I'm on your side here, right? I've been calling for a future replacement coming back in a trade this whole time.
I do, I wasn't attacking you, just stating I don't think they would have to sign Staal if Girardi was dealt.

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01-28-2014, 12:51 PM
  #697
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Getting killed? We tend to overperform every year and play surprisingly well in the playoffs. A hot Henrik will likely take us to the ECF, especially with the offense we've found lately.

We make it past the first round more often than not. Clearly we need to take the next step but it's there for the taking.
What's there for the taking if the players you have to re-sign take up the remainder of the cap space needed to improve the team? How does a team improve if they have no cap space?

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01-28-2014, 12:52 PM
  #698
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01-28-2014, 12:54 PM
  #699
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I do, I wasn't attacking you, just stating I don't think they would have to sign Staal if Girardi was dealt.
I hope they at least have an idea of what Staal's intentions are at this point. I'd like to keep him.

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01-28-2014, 12:54 PM
  #700
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I still think Connolly will be a very productive winger in the NHL ala Bobby Ryan. He has legit puck skills and size. Either way, if you aren't enamored with that package, say another team offers up a package with similar value, do you take that?
For Callahan yes. Without hesitation. For Girardi? No. I consider resigning him at 6.5 per. What would hurt this thing more than anything would be to lose Girardi and Staal in back to back years. The package we would get for Girardi would not contribute on defense like he does unless we some how get a guy like Vatanen back for him from Anaheim.

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