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Trade Weber?

View Poll Results: Should Poile think of trading Weber to add to offense?
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Old
02-18-2014, 12:13 AM
  #176
Iron Duke
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
few things...Bourque isn't the same kind of dman as Weber. Bourque, hall of famer, but not a generational talent.

Blake was the same kind, but again, not a generational talent.

Not saying Weber is, but he very well could be.

as for those talented STL teams, no one was outspending Colorado and Detroit and beating them
I don't really agree with this at all.

Bourque is likely one of the top 10 defensemen of all time. Granted he played in a different era, but nearly PPG production during an over-20 year career, and certainly not a Housely-type "What's defense?" defenseman? Absolutely a generational talent...probably a multi-generational talent.

Blake was every bit as dominant during his peak as Weber currently is, putting up excellent offensive numbers from the blueline (.612 PPG for his career) while also being a dominant physical force. Very similar to Weber in that he was relatively ignored by the hockey media due to playing for the Kings.

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02-18-2014, 12:19 AM
  #177
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I don't really agree with this at all.

Bourque is likely one of the top 10 defensemen of all time. Granted he played in a different era, but nearly PPG production during an over-20 year career, and certainly not a Housely-type "What's defense?" defenseman? Absolutely a generational talent...probably a multi-generational talent.

Blake was every bit as dominant during his peak as Weber currently is, putting up excellent offensive numbers from the blueline (.612 PPG for his career) while also being a dominant physical force. Very similar to Weber in that he was relatively ignored by the hockey media due to playing for the Kings.
Not denying they were very good in an offensively inflated time, but neither sniffed hart consideration, and neither did anything that could be considered part of the evolution of the modern defensemen. Lidstrom and Pronger did that. And I would argue the best dman of their time was Scott Stevens.

I don't want getting lost in this is that I think blake and bourque are all time greats. They are, but they could be replaced because they weren't head and shoulders better than their peers. Comparing it to Weber and todays game, there isn't a dman out there other than Chara that brings the package weber does.

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02-18-2014, 12:56 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
Not denying they were very good in an offensively inflated time, but neither sniffed hart consideration
The same hart Trophy that a defenseman has won once in 40 years?

Bourque and Blake were every bit as good as Weber is now. Bourque didn't have the strength of Weber, but he dictated the game when we was on the ice, in all zones. Just a slight step below Lidstrom.

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02-18-2014, 06:08 AM
  #179
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Bourque was dominant, I don't know that Weber is on his level yet.

Weber is better than Blake.

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02-18-2014, 06:49 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
Not denying they were very good in an offensively inflated time, but neither sniffed hart consideration, and neither did anything that could be considered part of the evolution of the modern defensemen. Lidstrom and Pronger did that. And I would argue the best dman of their time was Scott Stevens.

I don't want getting lost in this is that I think blake and bourque are all time greats. They are, but they could be replaced because they weren't head and shoulders better than their peers. Comparing it to Weber and todays game, there isn't a dman out there other than Chara that brings the package weber does.
In a time where Gretzky and Lemieux played not many guys would sniff Hart consideration. Bourque was easily the second best defenseman I've ever seen play the game, second only to Lidstrom. The guy was solid as a rock defensively and an offensive gem at the same time. The only time I saw him get his jock left behind was from a one on one where Mario basically undressed him. One of the best offensive moves I've ever seen. Basically Lemieux went right through him. It was like magic.

Stevens, while great took time to evolve in to the game changer he was. When he first came in to the league he spend a ton of time in the penalty box because he fought anything that moved. He also wasn't a big contributor offensively. There was also this guy named Chelios that came along that won 3 Norris trophies that was pretty darn good in that time period as well as Niedermayer. Bourque was still the best of all of them. You also have to realize this is high praise coming from a guy who grew up being a Montreal fan. Bourque and Neely were respected by me much like I respected Lidstrom even though I hated the Bruins and Detroit.

Blake was a great player too but his big knock early on was his injury history. Once he learned to stay on the ice, he became one heck of a player. It's a shame he and Bourque toiled on average teams for years, much like Weber is doing right now. Hopefully Poile can build around him because if he can't, at some point, there will be sentiment from many in the game that Weber deserves a shot at the Cup. Luckily we're years away from that happening but at some point, Weber will want to play for a contender, just hope it's for the good guys in gold.

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02-18-2014, 07:48 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Are we talking about Scientology or scenarios of trading Weber?
I love a good nonsequitur as much as the next clam, but WTF.

I was referring more to your evident unwillingness to consider any possibility that things actually might work out and that Poile might actually manage to improve the offense here (among other things). You seem to have completely given up on the possibility, and I surmised that was due to a lack of faith in Poile's abilities. That doesn't necessarily mean, though, that everyone else has, or that it's rational or reasonable to do so.
(Predicted response: blah blah blah thirty years blah blah he sucks blah blah Ryan Suter)

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02-18-2014, 10:37 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Bourque was dominant, I don't know that Weber is on his level yet.

Weber is better than Blake.
I think Blake is being dismissed way too easily. He played the same type of game as Weber, but over 1200 NHL games, and with a better PPG average while playing most of his career during the dead-puck era. They may be close, but I don't see an argument to decisively say Weber is better. I watched Blake throughout his prime, and he was every bit as dominant as Weber currently is.

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02-18-2014, 11:56 AM
  #183
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I liked Blake a lot.

And offensively he was right with Weber, Weber’s numbers will always be lower until we get someone that bury the puck up front to add to his assist totals. Primary assist and goal scoring Weber’s numbers are fine, he gets very few secondary assist if memory serves me correctly and that’s mainly because our forwards suck.

Blake was a big guy, and a good skater but he didn’t hit like Weber or play the body as well as Weber. I don’t think he was as good in the shutdown role as Weber either.

Stevens, early in Washington actually put up good numbers offensively.

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02-18-2014, 12:55 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
I liked Blake a lot.

And offensively he was right with Weber, Weber’s numbers will always be lower until we get someone that bury the puck up front to add to his assist totals. Primary assist and goal scoring Weber’s numbers are fine, he gets very few secondary assist if memory serves me correctly and that’s mainly because our forwards suck.

Blake was a big guy, and a good skater but he didn’t hit like Weber or play the body as well as Weber. I don’t think he was as good in the shutdown role as Weber either.

Stevens, early in Washington actually put up good numbers offensively.
Come on, seriously?



Guy was a fantastic hip checker, and certainly played with an extremely nasty edge until his body started breaking down later in career. It will be a treat if Weber maintains his level of play for as long as Blake did.

And just to be clear, I loathe Rob Blake. He is Ryan Suter and Paul Kariya (for any Ducks followers) rolled into one. ******* basically ripped the C off his sweater and bailed to an already-loaded Avs team, so I'm not being blinded by Kings loyalty of any kind.


Last edited by Iron Duke: 02-18-2014 at 01:01 PM.
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Old
02-18-2014, 02:08 PM
  #185
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I can put a video up of big hits from Smithson, it still doesn't mean he's as physical as Weber.

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02-18-2014, 02:32 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
I can put a video up of big hits from Smithson, it still doesn't mean he's as physical as Weber.
Hey, it's just a sampling, but have it your way.

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02-18-2014, 02:48 PM
  #187
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I never really saw Blake as a dominant player. He was great and put up great #'s, but I don't think you ever approached a game as an opponent or as spectator having to really key on that guy. He was never a guy that was a game-changer by himself.

He gets the nod over Weber, IMHO, for longevity, but if you want one guy to make a difference for one game - it would be hard not to pick Weber in his prime now over Blake in his prime.


Bourque, on the other hand, was a dominant dynamic force on the ice.

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02-18-2014, 03:42 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
I liked Blake a lot.

And offensively he was right with Weber, Weberís numbers will always be lower until we get someone that bury the puck up front to add to his assist totals. Primary assist and goal scoring Weberís numbers are fine, he gets very few secondary assist if memory serves me correctly and thatís mainly because our forwards suck.

Blake was a big guy, and a good skater but he didnít hit like Weber or play the body as well as Weber. I donít think he was as good in the shutdown role as Weber either.

Stevens, early in Washington actually put up good numbers offensively.
100% agreement Sakic, Forsberg, and Henrik >>>>>>>> Legwand, Hornqvist, ect..

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02-19-2014, 01:25 PM
  #189
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Weber's stock won't get much higher. Canadian teams will give everything for him right now after that goal over Latvia.

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02-19-2014, 01:44 PM
  #190
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Weber with the GWG over Latvia. Oh captain, my captain.

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02-19-2014, 02:10 PM
  #191
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Weber with the GWG over Latvia. Oh captain, my captain.

'Better trade him while he's hot then.....hurrr durrr!!!!!!'

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02-19-2014, 02:14 PM
  #192
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02-19-2014, 04:49 PM
  #193
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Weber's stock won't get much higher. Canadian teams will give everything for him right now after that goal over Latvia.
What Kadri and 2014/2015 1sts..lol

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02-19-2014, 04:53 PM
  #194
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Weber with the GWG over Latvia. Oh captain, my captain.
But was it even strength?!?!?!?

Weber is the best defenseman in the NHL. Love seeing him on the big stage dominating.

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02-19-2014, 06:38 PM
  #195
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Weber's play continues at the level we saw starting just after Christmas. Hopefully he keeps it up once he hangs up the Team Canada jersey.

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02-19-2014, 07:16 PM
  #196
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Weber's play continues at the level we saw starting just after Christmas. Hopefully he keeps it up once he hangs up the Team Canada jersey.
When did Josi get up to speed after his concussion? Do you think having Josi instead of Jones as a linemate improved Weber's numbers?

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02-19-2014, 07:18 PM
  #197
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But was it even strength?!?!?!?

Weber is the best defenseman in the WORLD. Love seeing him on the big stage dominating.
Ftfy

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02-19-2014, 07:21 PM
  #198
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When did Josi get up to speed after his concussion? Do you think having Josi instead of Jones as a linemate improved Weber's numbers?
I'm sure the chemistry between Josi and Weber helped Weber's numbers. It taking until after Christmas doesn't match Josi's injury timeline nor does it explain the switch flip in Weber's effectiveness in all situations.

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02-20-2014, 05:50 AM
  #199
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You're telling me Weber didn't put, up great 5-5 numbers when playing with a 19 year old rookie for 26 minutes a night? That's shocking, really.

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02-20-2014, 07:42 AM
  #200
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You're telling me Weber didn't put, up great 5-5 numbers when playing with a 19 year old rookie for 26 minutes a night? That's shocking, really.
Shea Weberism is not a religion (yet) although it is hard to tell with the reaction when a poor stretch of situational play is mentioned.

Weber simply failed to perform at expected levels at ES through the first 36+ games of the season. The rookie had just as many GWGs, one fewer ES goal, and more ES assists than Weber through New Year's. Truly generational talents don't need excuses made for them ... they perform. This season, it took Weber almost half the season to start performing at ES ... twice as many ES goals in January as he had in the three months prior combined while maintaining his PP goal scoring pace of two PPG per month.

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