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Nashville-Edmonton proposal

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Old
10-01-2003, 07:44 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
i'm no more of a homer than every other fan on this board. i'm probably one of the most reasonable posters, and anyone that's discussed something with me will most likely tell you that. i guess i'm a homer because i don't think the preds are going to finish in the cellar this year, though? I personally don't think the oilers are going to make the playoffs this year...and i know that you do. i guess that makes YOU just as much of a homer as i am, huh?
Honestly I dont think the Oilers are going to make the playoffs.... not without Comrie anyway

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10-01-2003, 07:51 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dem
Honestly I dont think the Oilers are going to make the playoffs.... not without Comrie anyway
Blasphemous wretches!!

"phoenix, san jose, la, calgary...and even columbus and nashville...are all just as able to take that spot as edmonton."

ur odds may have increased from previous years but ur r not "just as able" make no mistake bottom-feeders that 8th spot is ours!!.. blah-blah

K now back to the trades, could u plz give me ur explanation as to how Hartnell is better than Comrie?(insight not questioning your judgement)

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10-01-2003, 07:54 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
we came awfully close last year, before injuries killed us

that's beside the point though, because i'm not so much saying that WE'RE going to take the last spot(though i don't rule it out) but i think that a lot of teams that didn't challenge last year...could..this year. phoenix, san jose, la, calgary...and even columbus and nashville...are all just as able to take that spot as edmonton.
you just never know
lol. Everybody has injuries. Edmonton didn't even have one single player that played in every game. They had key players out for extended games. Don't give me the excuse becuase of injuries you were that far behind.

Ryan Smyth - shoulder (missed 16 games)
Mike Comrie - broken thumb (missed 13 games)
Mike York - broken wrist (missed 11 games; played in playoffs with cast on wrist)
Steve Staios - concussion (missed 6 games)
Eric Brewer - shoulder (missed 2 games)
Georges Laraque - sprained wrist, elbow, knee (missed 18 games)
Jason Smith - separated shoulder (missed 14 games)

And there's more. What about Los Angeles, Montreal, Phoenix, NY Rangers, Toronto, Ottawa. They all had injuries.

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Old
10-01-2003, 08:04 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
K now back to the trades, could u plz give me ur explanation as to how Hartnell is better than Comrie?(insight not questioning your judgement)
who said this

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10-01-2003, 08:08 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilers89
lol. Everybody has injuries. Edmonton didn't even have one single player that played in every game. They had key players out for extended games. Don't give me the excuse becuase of injuries you were that far behind.

Ryan Smyth - shoulder (missed 16 games)
Mike Comrie - broken thumb (missed 13 games)
Mike York - broken wrist (missed 11 games; played in playoffs with cast on wrist)
Steve Staios - concussion (missed 6 games)
Eric Brewer - shoulder (missed 2 games)
Georges Laraque - sprained wrist, elbow, knee (missed 18 games)
Jason Smith - separated shoulder (missed 14 games)

And there's more. What about Los Angeles, Montreal, Phoenix, NY Rangers, Toronto, Ottawa. They all had injuries.
the difference is Nashville is an expansion team with little to no depth. Besides that our whole first line went down at the same time.....being a weak scoring team to beging with, it was hard to win games with only 1 goal put in ;( Also, its nice to mention that our capatin missed almost 50 games as well. Its not an excuse, its a reality. Partialy healthy Nashville was within 1 point of the oilers, with Legwand and others out, they fell off the race. Same goes for L.A. who almost undboutedly would have made the playoffs last year if they did not have so many injuries. Everyteam gets injuries, I know, but the quantity and the players injured have a big effect on teams. Also, it is important to note if the injuries were just minor ones that caused players to miss a few games, or an extended injury as AJ and Legwands were last year.

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10-01-2003, 08:08 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
who said this
I believe that would be me. Problem?

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10-01-2003, 08:10 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilers89
lol. Everybody has injuries. Edmonton didn't even have one single player that played in every game. They had key players out for extended games. Don't give me the excuse becuase of injuries you were that far behind.
that's nice, but we were up there with LA and phoenix. i thank smokeyclause for doing the work for me, but you could examine this, and tell me how your injuries were as bad as ours were. ours were...absolutely ridiculous. sometimes as many as NINE guys out, including our entire top line

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
Here were our injuries

Preseason -

Hartnell misses almost entire preseason with groin injury
Eaton misses almost entire preseason with broken nose
Grimson missed entire season/preseason with PCS

October -

15th - Scott Walker misses 17 games with torn rib cartilage
15th - Denis Pederson misses 3 games with groin injury
22nd - Greg Johnson misses 44 games with concussion
30th - Yachmenev misses 18 games with broken right thumb

November -

6th - Denis Pederson misses 6 games with torn left bicep tendon
7th - Andy Delmore misses 5 games with shoulder stinger
10th - Dominic Pittis misses 45 games with concussion
10th - Kimmo Timonen misses 2 games with ankle bruise
16th - Wyatt Smith misses 5 with shoulder bruise
27th - Denis Pederson misses 3 games with neck strain
29th - Andreas Johansson misses 3 games with separated shoulder

December -

3rd - Mark Eaton misses 5 games with knee injury
5th - Mike Dunham misses 3 games with strained groin
21st - Brent Gilchrist misses 1 game with ankle injury
23rd - Vitali Yachmenev misses 2 games with strained chest muscle
23rd - Vladimir Orszagh misses 3 games with pulled rib muscle

January -

4th - Scott Walker misses 2 games with neck strain
6th - Denis Pederson misses 24 games with a Mild concussion
6th - Kimmo Timonen misses 7 games with Calf contusion
14th - Tomas Vokoun misses 1 game with flu
14th - Scott Walker misses 3 games with sprained knee
18th - Brent Gilchrist misses 10 games with Back injury
21st - Andreas Johansson misses one game with influenza

February -

15th - Andreas Johansson misses 13 games with Bruised hip/Strained groin
25th - Denis Arkhipov missed 1 game with bruised shoulder

March -

1st - David Legwand misses 18 games with broken collarbone
6th - Reid Simpson misses 12 games with back spasms/shoulder/knee/head
12th - Andy Delmore misses 2 games with wrist injury
20th - Andy Delmore misses 1 game with wrist injury
22nd - Brent Gilchrist misses 5 games with shoulder injuryy
23rd - Todd Warriner misses 2 games with concussion
23rd - Andreas Johansson misses 4 games with wrist/back spasms
31st - Vladimir Orszagh misses 1 game with bruised shoulder


April -

4/1/03 - Wade Flaherty misses 3 games with groin injury
4/4/03 - Andreas Johansson misses 2 games with hip injury
4/6/03 - Todd Warriner missse 1 game with concussion



Bold indicates first line offensive or defensive players and starting goalies and captain.

I created this from various sources so all you plaigarism mongers can just kiss my ass

As a sidenote, notice how many times Gilchrist and Pederson end up on this list. Wonder why they aren't with us anymore

it's not even comparable.

as far as "is scott hartnell better than comrie," i never said that. i said that at the moment, he's worth a bit more than hemsky. now...would *I* rather have comrie than hartnell? no. i'll take a power forward over a small scorer any day. hartnell is only showing signs of getting better, and i think that when all is said and done, he'll be a 25-30 goal guy. He's certainly making a case in preseason, having scored a goal in every game he played in...2 of them were VERY pretty breakaways. but...that's all a matter of opinion.

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Old
10-01-2003, 08:10 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
I believe that would be me. Problem?
u said hartnell is better than comrie and you want an explanation????

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Old
10-01-2003, 08:14 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
u said hartnell is better than comrie and you want an explanation????
where did I say that? Legwand ya. Hartnell no.

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10-01-2003, 08:20 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
that's nice, but we were up there with LA and phoenix. i thank smokeyclause for doing the work for me, but you could examine this, and tell me how your injuries were as bad as ours were. ours were...absolutely ridiculous. sometimes as many as NINE guys out, including our entire top line




it's not even comparable.

as far as "is scott hartnell better than comrie," i never said that. i said that at the moment, he's worth a bit more than hemsky. now...would *I* rather have comrie than hartnell? no. i'll take a power forward over a small scorer any day. hartnell is only showing signs of getting better, and i think that when all is said and done, he'll be a 25-30 goal guy. He's certainly making a case in preseason, having scored a goal in every game he played in...2 of them were VERY pretty breakaways. but...that's all a matter of opinion.
Comrie got 33goals in his first full-season and could be poised to do more u'll exchange that for just a little size? Potential+Time> Actual here and now talent? Who also puts up better numbers?

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10-01-2003, 08:36 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
Comrie got 33goals in his first full-season and could be poised to do more u'll exchange that for just a little size? Potential+Time> Actual here and now talent? Who also puts up better numbers?
can you guarantee that comrie will ever score 33 goals again? no. likewise, i can't guarantee that hartnell will ever score in any great numbers, but as we both(should) know, there's more to hockey than scoring. there's an "if" attached to both players, but at the moment, i'd rather have hartnell. he's bigger, cheaper, younger...and isn't currently causing a national scene by demanding trades\more money. in fact, hartnell accepted his qualifying offer, which was a very modest amount.

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10-01-2003, 08:41 PM
  #62
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No one bites on the blockbuster....?

Comrie, Torres, Rita ---------- for --------- Hartnell, Arkhipov, Stehlik

** Can you imagine Torres and Tootoo on the same team... better yet the same line (Here comes the pain).

** If Stehlik doesn't turn out, Nash wins this trade. If he does...well, I guess it depends on whether or not Rita develops into a second or third liner.

Here's how I rate these players' CURRENT trade value:

Comrie
Hartnell
Arkhipov
Torres
Rita
Stehlik

Here's how I rate their FUTURE worth and career potential:

Hartnell
Comrie
Torres
Arkhipov
Stehlik
Rita

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10-01-2003, 08:45 PM
  #63
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one of the big factors, though...and being in edmonton, it's impossible for you to know this, but Hartnell is a fan favorite. Probably just behind Tootoo as the current most popular predator, right up there with Legwand. There would be an uproar if he were traded. You have to wait until he falls out of grace with the fans, like Dunham did

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10-01-2003, 08:49 PM
  #64
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Hartnell>Comrie You guys are hilarious. Did Nashville get a different Hartnell or are you talking about the same "Scott" Hartnell: You know the one who has scored 28 goals in 232 games(fact). The guy who scored 1 point in his first 16 games last year.(fact) We have names for these kind of guys in Edmonton that are praised for there character and hard work and leadership(which Hartnell has): ETHAN MOREAU!!!

What makes this even funnier is that Moreau is cheaper than Hartnell, and has been in the playoffs the 6 of the last 7 years.(which is where are the leadership and character are supposed to get you) They were also both high first round draft picks.

Now seriously, I think Hartnell will be a good 3rd or at best 2nd line player who scores 20-25 goals and is your captain. But you guys make him sound like one of the best young prospects in Hockey and he's not even close.

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10-01-2003, 08:53 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
can you guarantee that comrie will ever score 33 goals again? no. likewise, i can't guarantee that hartnell will ever score in any great numbers, but as we both(should) know, there's more to hockey than scoring. there's an "if" attached to both players, but at the moment, i'd rather have hartnell. he's bigger, cheaper, younger...and isn't currently causing a national scene by demanding trades\more money. in fact, hartnell accepted his qualifying offer, which was a very modest amount.
I would say that its far more likely that Comrie will reproduce what hes already done then what some think Hartnell can possibly accomplish even though he's played more games and has failed to get even close to somewhat similair numbers to Comrie. All your reasons for liking Hartnell are acceptable and valid and I think its great he took the qualifying offer but I think ur just a tinsy bit homerish for thinking Hartnell's the better player.Yes there is more to hockey than scoring and Hartnell will be a great player. Just not better than Comrie . I haven't seen Hartnell in pre-season maybe he's a re-invented player but only time will tell.

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10-01-2003, 08:57 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
I would say that its far more likely that Comrie will reproduce what hes already done then what some think Hartnell can possibly accomplish even though he's played more games and has failed to get even close to somewhat similair numbers to Comrie. All your reasons for liking Hartnell are acceptable and valid and I think its great he took the qualifying offer but I think ur just a tinsy bit homerish for thinking Hartnell's the better player.Yes there is more to hockey than scoring and Hartnell will be a great player. Just not better than Comrie . I haven't seen Hartnell in pre-season maybe he's a re-invented player but only time will tell.

haha, man...
for the third time...i never said that hartnell was a better player than comrie. i said...at this moment...he's better than HEMSKY. i think comparing comrie and hartnell is a case of apples and oranges. they're two completely different types of players, and so you'd have to look at a different scale to compare their progress.

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10-01-2003, 08:58 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter orange
No one bites on the blockbuster....?

Comrie, Torres, Rita ---------- for --------- Hartnell, Arkhipov, Stehlik

** Can you imagine Torres and Tootoo on the same team... better yet the same line (Here comes the pain).

** If Stehlik doesn't turn out, Nash wins this trade. If he does...well, I guess it depends on whether or not Rita develops into a second or third liner.

Here's how I rate these players' CURRENT trade value:

Comrie
Hartnell
Arkhipov
Torres
Rita
Stehlik

Here's how I rate their FUTURE worth and career potential:

Hartnell
Comrie
Torres
Arkhipov
Stehlik
Rita
I can't believe u put Stehlik above Rita in career potential. As for Torres and Tootoo I would rather have a line of Torres-Sutherby-Upshall now that's a great line

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10-01-2003, 09:00 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
haha, man...
for the third time...i never said that hartnell was a better player than comrie. i said...at this moment...he's better than HEMSKY. i think comparing comrie and hartnell is a case of apples and oranges. they're two completely different types of players, and so you'd have to look at a different scale to compare their progress.
How is comparison to Hemsky anymore valid? Maybe u should compare him to other power forwards like Isbister or Thorton

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10-01-2003, 09:02 PM
  #69
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Hemsky! Come on!

Yes, the guy has played over 200 games, but he's 21 (the same age as Torres). Three seasons ago Nashville did not have the luxury it has now of a deep prospect system. Hartnell would have benefited greatly from a year or two in the minors.

Now, at age 21/22 he will probably net 20 goals this season and finish with around 50-55 points. Pretty good for a power forward at age 22. Most high tier power forwards don't put up those kinds of numbers until they're 25-27.

Nashville fans comparing Hartnell's worth to Hemsky's is of course ridiculous. But your comparison of Hartnell and Moreau is equally as silly.

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10-01-2003, 09:11 PM
  #70
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Nashville fans comparing Hartnell's worth to Hemsky's is of course ridiculous. But your comparison of Hartnell and Moreau is equally as silly.[/QUOTE]

If you'll read me post you will see that the first 2 paragraghs were a joke, but I was not nearly as far off as you were with comparing Hartnell with Hemsky or Comrie and I had facts to prove it.

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10-01-2003, 09:21 PM
  #71
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Hemsky01-"Moreau is cheaper than Hartnell"

actually Hartnell makes $1,182,500 which is highway robbery as far as I am concerned and Moreau makes $1.5 million. Though Hartnell will make substansially more in the future and man I can't believe Ethan took such a large pay cut to stay longer.

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10-01-2003, 09:24 PM
  #72
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As far as Nashville is concerned, I would be willing to say Hartnell probably equals Comrie. We need a PF much moreso than a well-paid undersized scorer. We won't pay Comrie and if he has a good year this year, will likely price the Preds out completely. So, using this, I would say Hartnell exceeds Comrie in value TO NASHVILLE.

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10-01-2003, 09:33 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
As far as Nashville is concerned, I would be willing to say Hartnell probably equals Comrie. We need a PF much moreso than a well-paid undersized scorer. We won't pay Comrie and if he has a good year this year, will likely price the Preds out completely. So, using this, I would say Hartnell exceeds Comrie in value TO NASHVILLE.
Your considering Hartnell a Powerforward? That is where we disagree. I agree he plays a power game but I always thought a power forward was supposed score more than 20-25 goals/year.(30-40 at least) Hartnell has now played 3 full years in the league and hasn't shown any resemblance to having the hands to score 30 goals.(28 goals in 232 games)(fact).

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10-01-2003, 09:33 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
haha, man...
for the third time...i never said that hartnell was a better player than comrie. i said...at this moment...he's better than HEMSKY. i think comparing comrie and hartnell is a case of apples and oranges. they're two completely different types of players, and so you'd have to look at a different scale to compare their progress.
Missed your post on the 4th page sorry got kind of frantic for a little while posts flying everywhere.

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10-02-2003, 04:17 AM
  #75
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This isnt a piss fight here. Comrie probably is the better player than Hartnell. Although its hard to judge between players when they are so young and have totally different games. My point has not been that a player is better than others, but his value to the predators. THe Predators place a lot of value in grit, character, strong two way game, and leadership qualities. All of these Hartnell has shown, and he has the potential to be a monster PF. I'm not saying he will reach this potential, but he could. Hartnell is one of our first round picks that fans love. I can't see management moving any of them unless a really sweet deal as in monster overpayment occurs b/c of this fact. You do not understand how fragile hockey is in TN, and it is finally starting to gain a fanbase. I say wait a few years before the Preds start making in big trades. Right now, they simply can't afford the shock to the fans, especially if one of the players we trade for doesn't pan out.

Hope this helps. I'm not being a homer, just pointing out some basics. Tennessee fans are not as informed as Edmonton's. Although I will say, this year things are beginning to change drastically. THe newspaper is covering the team quite well, and lots of media marketing is going on.

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