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Old
02-14-2014, 01:30 PM
  #726
flyershockey
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Nah, Edmonton fans should definitely be questioning their drafting ability. They've taken several easy, obvious picks...and outside of those they've done nothing. Their drafting outside of their annually high 1st rounders is completely miserable.

If their team starts doing better to the point where they have mid round picks instead of early picks there's zero reason to believe they'll be able to make worthwhile picks.
Lol. Edmonton hasn't drafted a full-time NHL'er outside of the first round in over 10 years.

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Old
02-14-2014, 01:45 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by sharpeye97 View Post
A team may ask for one of LA's stay at home defenders in a package for a scoring winger. That's when the Flyers can offer Grossmann.
who do the Flyers take back in return, I still think it will have to be a hockey trade. another words you are going to have take salary back from LA. not just a pick or one of the kids in Manchester.

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Old
02-14-2014, 01:46 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
They will only have about $6m to spend on free agents after resigning Gus, Schenn and Raffl and a $1m or less backup goalie.

Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.000m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Michael Raffl ($1.000m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Matt Read ($3.625m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) / Scott Laughton ($0.894m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m) / Chris Pronger ($4.941m)
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Cal Heeter ($0.874m)
BUYOUTS
Daniel Briere ($0.000m)
Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,209,720; BONUSES: $212,500
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $5,890,280
Hall and a d-man like Lauridsen or Alt leaves the team with about 4 mil. That's enough to look for another d-man and if need be they could put Pronger on LTIR. I know everyone *****es every year about how that's not a good idea and every year that's what the team does and it never seems to cause a problem.

My original point stands, Hartnell for Hemsky is a stupid trade.

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02-14-2014, 01:53 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I don't know about that. Eberle is on his way to being stud, as is RNH. Given where Eberle was chosen (22nd) and the fact that he has the fourth most points of anyone in that draft despite playing between 40 and 150+ games less than the three guys ahead of him, one of which is Stamkos, you can't really question that pick. Same thing with RNH. He was very well deserved to be a #1 pick that year and I don't think you can really argue that, and he has outscored anyone else in the draft (even while playing in less games than some of the closest guys to him like Landeskog). The only real questionable pick they made was Magnus Pajaarvi a couple years back, a guy that a lot of people thought was going to be a great player. Really too early to call Yakupov or Nurse questionable picks, though Yak is certainly trending down.
Unless you consider first to third overall picks anything besides an easy pick to make there's really been nothing notable to Edmonton's drafting for a long time now. There's Eberle (who was also a 1st rounder anyhow) and not much else anyone can remember.

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Old
02-14-2014, 01:57 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Hall and a d-man like Lauridsen or Alt leaves the team with about 4 mil. That's enough to look for another d-man and if need be they could put Pronger on LTIR. I know everyone *****es every year about how that's not a good idea and every year that's what the team does and it never seems to cause a problem.

My original point stands, Hartnell for Hemsky is a stupid trade.
They will put Pronger on LTIR right after they submit their roster at the end of training camp. At that point all the good free agents will be signed, but they will be able to call up players who cleared waivers like they did with Hall this season. And players not subject to waivers like Alt.

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Old
02-14-2014, 02:02 PM
  #731
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I would honestly be interested if the Islanders would want to make a trade for Chris Pronger after next year. He is getting paid 575K the last two years of the deal, but with a cap hit of almost 5 million. They are always a team who never spends and would like to have that extra wiggle room at the floor. Just something I would explore.

We could even pay the 575K each year, so they don't have to pay him anything.

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Old
02-14-2014, 02:17 PM
  #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Unless you consider first to third overall picks anything besides an easy pick to make there's really been nothing notable to Edmonton's drafting for a long time now. There's Eberle (who was also a 1st rounder anyhow) and not much else anyone can remember.
Meh. You can't fault a team for picking that high because the picks were "obvious." As far as the later round picks go, yes it is true that they haven't hit on many later round picks in recent years, so is the case with a lot of the league. The stats have been discussed ad nauseum on here about the percent chance to draft a regular NHLer outside of the first round. I don't have time to look back over every draft from the past ten years, but I imagine that there are players in the NHL (maybe not on EDM any more) that were chosen by EDM after the first round. Maybe someone else can do that or I will later.

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02-14-2014, 02:18 PM
  #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I would honestly be interested if the Islanders would want to make a trade for Chris Pronger after next year. He is getting paid 575K the last two years of the deal, but with a cap hit of almost 5 million. They are always a team who never spends and would like to have that extra wiggle room at the floor. Just something I would explore.

We could even pay the 575K each year, so they don't have to pay him anything.
I can see that happening. I wonder what the flyers would get in return.

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Old
02-14-2014, 02:19 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by MRxBLACK View Post
I can see that happening. I wonder what the flyers would get in return.
A conditional second rounder if he ever plays for the Islanders....

Same as the Thomas trade to them.

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Old
02-14-2014, 02:25 PM
  #735
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Still don't understand how that trade and the Thomas trade aren't considered cap circumvention.

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Old
02-14-2014, 02:37 PM
  #736
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Byfuglien is Flyers Main Target

From Eklund's Blog:

On Byfuglien...

This is the Flyers main target I am told, but the Bruins are going to be involved as well...and the price is still too high for either team....



_____________________________________

When he was with the Hawks in 2009-10 and a LW I was all for him being a Flyer... he seemed made for being a Flyer... But now, a few years later, as an expensive D-man ($5.2M Cap next two seasons) once again, and requiring much assets going back the other way to obtain him... plus that fact that he would be a major cog in a Flyers' D, where a new #1 will be needed... he is no longer attractive to me.

I'd love to hear what other Flyers fans here think... and I know; the fact that it is Eklund will bring pooh poohs from many here... but as has been said before on here, he is a lot closer to the Flyers and more credible when talking about the Flyers. Of course this is certainly speculation, and is not new news... Just sayin'

Should the Flyers work him in going forward... and is he worth the Cap Hit and the assets? And; do you believe that he is the Flyers' main target?

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Old
02-14-2014, 02:40 PM
  #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
From Eklund's Blog:

On Byfuglien...

This is the Flyers main target I am told, but the Bruins are going to be involved as well...and the price is still too high for either team....



_____________________________________

When he was with the Hawks in 2009-10 and a LW I was all for him being a Flyer... he seemed made for being a Flyer... But now, a few years later, as an expensive D-man ($5.2M Cap next two seasons) once again, and requiring much assets going back the other way to obtain him... plus that fact that he would be a major cog in a Flyers' D, where a new #1 will be needed... he is no longer attractive to me.

I'd love to hear what other Flyers fans here think... and I know; the fact that it is Eklund will bring pooh poohs from many here... but as has been said before on here, he is a lot closer to the Flyers and more credible when talking about the Flyers. Of course this is certainly speculation, and is not new news... Just sayin'

Should the Flyers work him in going forward... and is he worth the Cap Hit and the assets? Plus; d you believe that he is the Flyers' main target?
keep him away

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Old
02-14-2014, 02:41 PM
  #738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I would honestly be interested if the Islanders would want to make a trade for Chris Pronger after next year. He is getting paid 575K the last two years of the deal, but with a cap hit of almost 5 million. They are always a team who never spends and would like to have that extra wiggle room at the floor. Just something I would explore.

We could even pay the 575K each year, so they don't have to pay him anything.
The "cap floor" trades never come to fruition. The Islanders aren't going to be in a position where they need to make some trade to get $5 million closer to the cap floor. They are already on the hook for Yashin's $2 million that gets tossed down the tubes. Not to mention the fact that having Pronger around could be a positive on this team.

I also don't think his being on LTIR has impacted this team in the way people think it has. The Flyers have made trades, signings, etc., and pursued the highest level UFAs while Pronger has been on LTIR. It is hard to argue that the team has been hindered from making the moves it wanted to make when they signed Weber to a monster deal and tried to do the same with Suter and/or Parise. They have also made a number of deadline deals involving some relatively big cap-hits (I think Kubina was making around $4 mil wasn't he?). It doesn't make sense to say his presence on LTIR has stopped the team from making moves, unless you are going to suggest with a straight face that there were other, bigger moves that would have been made, which in theory is possible, but would be pretty ridiculous.

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Old
02-14-2014, 02:41 PM
  #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
From Eklund's Blog:

On Byfuglien...

This is the Flyers main target I am told, but the Bruins are going to be involved as well...and the price is still too high for either team....



_____________________________________

When he was with the Hawks in 2009-10 and a LW I was all for him being a Flyer... he seemed made for being a Flyer... But now, a few years later, as an expensive D-man ($5.2M Cap next two seasons) once again, and requiring much assets going back the other way to obtain him... plus that fact that he would be a major cog in a Flyers' D, where a new #1 will be needed... he is no longer attractive to me.

I'd love to hear what other Flyers fans here think... and I know; the fact that it is Eklund will bring pooh poohs from many here... but as has been said before on here, he is a lot closer to the Flyers and more credible when talking about the Flyers. Of course this is certainly speculation, and is not new news... Just sayin'
I don't want to see Byfuglien here. At all. We have too many 1 dimensional players as is - and we'd have to give up too much in return to get him, I feel. Although with Scheifele playing the way he is, it might be possible to swing a deal that doesn't include Couts...

And it's Eklund. So there's that.

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Old
02-14-2014, 02:47 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
They will put Pronger on LTIR right after they submit their roster at the end of training camp. At that point all the good free agents will be signed, but they will be able to call up players who cleared waivers like they did with Hall this season. And players not subject to waivers like Alt.
Bringing up players like Alt and Hall late wouldn't make much room but combine with the 4ish mil they'd have available it should be enough for any FA signing. Being allowed to go over the cap 10 percent in the off-season would give the team the ability to get whoever they'd want aka the good FAs.

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Old
02-14-2014, 02:56 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Bringing up players like Alt and Hall late wouldn't make much room but combine with the 4ish mil they'd have available it should be enough for any FA signing. Being allowed to go over the cap 10 percent in the off-season would give the team the ability to get whoever they'd want aka the good FAs.
Any one free agent signing. Anyone who expects the Flyers to sign multiple quality free agents without trading to create space is going to be disappointed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I also don't think his being on LTIR has impacted this team in the way people think it has. The Flyers have made trades, signings, etc., and pursued the highest level UFAs while Pronger has been on LTIR. It is hard to argue that the team has been hindered from making the moves it wanted to make when they signed Weber to a monster deal and tried to do the same with Suter and/or Parise. They have also made a number of deadline deals involving some relatively big cap-hits (I think Kubina was making around $4 mil wasn't he?). It doesn't make sense to say his presence on LTIR has stopped the team from making moves, unless you are going to suggest with a straight face that there were other, bigger moves that would have been made, which in theory is possible, but would be pretty ridiculous.
Pronger being on LTIR is the reason the Flyers went into this season with Max Talbot as the third line winger instead of spending money to get a quality player for that position. Things were so bad they were trying to get a broken down vet like Cleary to wait until after training camp to sign with them. Even though they had the cheapest goalie tandem in the league apart from Edmonton, having Pronger take up 7.6% of the cap when the initial roster was submitted was a big issue.


Last edited by Curufinwe: 02-14-2014 at 03:07 PM.
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Old
02-14-2014, 03:05 PM
  #742
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Any one free agent signing. Anyone who expects the Flyers to sign multiple quality free agents without trading to create space is going to be disappointed.
I agree. I'm honestly hoping Grossmann gets shipped out. That would leave a little less then 7.5mil for 2 d-men.

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02-14-2014, 03:09 PM
  #743
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I really don't understand the hate on Buff. Fat jokes aside, the guy is exactly what this defense needs, a guy who can move the puck out the zone with both passing and skating. I wouldn't trade the world for him, but some people are ridiculous when they say they wouldn't even take him for free.

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02-14-2014, 03:12 PM
  #744
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Meh. You can't fault a team for picking that high because the picks were "obvious." As far as the later round picks go, yes it is true that they haven't hit on many later round picks in recent years, so is the case with a lot of the league. The stats have been discussed ad nauseum on here about the percent chance to draft a regular NHLer outside of the first round. I don't have time to look back over every draft from the past ten years, but I imagine that there are players in the NHL (maybe not on EDM any more) that were chosen by EDM after the first round. Maybe someone else can do that or I will later.
It's not that they haven't hit on "many." They haven't hit on ANY. They're one of the worst drafting teams in the NHL since the cap era began and drafting became even more important. Possibly the worst.

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02-14-2014, 03:17 PM
  #745
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I really don't understand the hate on Buff. Fat jokes aside, the guy is exactly what this defense needs, a guy who can move the puck out the zone with both passing and skating. I wouldn't trade the world for him, but some people are ridiculous when they say they wouldn't even take him for free.
He can't play any semblance of defense, so his usefulness realize on his ability to outscore the opposing team while on the ice. We already have Mez for that.

I'm not saying Buff isn't light years better then Mez but for similar reasons he won't work on the Flyers IMO. Don't get me wrong, I'd take him for free but I wouldn't be willing to part with one of the young centers or anything like that.

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02-14-2014, 03:22 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
He can't play any semblance of defense, so his usefulness realize on his ability to outscore the opposing team while on the ice. We already have Mez for that.

I'm not saying Buff isn't light years better then Mez but for similar reasons he won't work on the Flyers IMO. Don't get me wrong, I'd take him for free but I wouldn't be willing to part with one of the young centers or anything like that.
First, he's not as bad as HF would make him out to be. He's below average, no doubt, but he's not close to one of the worst. If he was partnered with Coburn, that would be one hell of a pairing. Buffs ability to make things happen on offense is in the upper echelon of the league.

I wouldn't trade one of the centers for him either. I would take him if the Jets were selling low.

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02-14-2014, 03:23 PM
  #747
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I agree. I'm honestly hoping Grossmann gets shipped out. That would leave a little less then 7.5mil for 2 d-men.
I agree. I would try and trade Grossmann for picks and get Nikitin and Niskanen as free agents. Waive Rosehill, sign Hall, and sign a cheap backup goalie like Greiss.

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.000m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Michael Raffl ($1.000m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Matt Read ($3.625m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m) / Scott Laughton ($0.894m) / Adam Hall ($0.650m)
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Matt Niskanen ($5.500m)
Nikita Nikitin ($4.000m) / Mark Streit ($5.250m)
Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) /
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,060,595; BONUSES: $212,500
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $39,405

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02-14-2014, 03:26 PM
  #748
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Matt Niskanen for 5.5 million? That would Matt freakin Niskanen our second highest paid player. Yikes!

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02-14-2014, 03:28 PM
  #749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
I agree. I would try and trade Grossmann for picks and get Nikitin and Niskanen as free agents. Waive Rosehill, sign Hall, and sign a cheap backup goalie like Greiss.

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.000m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Michael Raffl ($1.000m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Matt Read ($3.625m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m) / Scott Laughton ($0.894m) / Adam Hall ($0.650m)
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Matt Niskanen ($5.500m)
Nikita Nikitin ($4.000m) / Mark Streit ($5.250m)
Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) /
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,060,595; BONUSES: $212,500
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $39,405
I mentioned something along these lines a few days ago. I would be ok with this, instead of trading our young centers. I would just hope Niskanen would come cheaper, but who knows.

Edit: I wonder what Stalman will get on his next contract?

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02-14-2014, 03:28 PM
  #750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Pronger being on LTIR is the reason the Flyers went into this season with Max Talbot as the third line winger instead of spending money to get a quality player for that position. Things were so bad they were trying to get a broken down vet like Cleary to wait until after training camp to sign with them. Even though they had the cheapest goalie tandem in the league apart from Edmonton, having Pronger take up 7.6% of the cap when the initial roster was submitted was a big issue.
I'm not buying that. Who else was out there that the Flyers would have signed if they had that extra money but couldn't because of Pronger? Clarke MaCarthur? Ryane Clowe? David Clarkson? I'm not entirely convinced they would have gone after these guys, and if they did I imagine everyone would have had a hissy fit on the terms of the contracts. The only other player that I imagine they would have been in on was Michael Ryder. I don't remember the cap situation exactly, but he was signed for $3.5 million and Cleary was what $2.8 or something? Was the $700k not available (I honestly don't know) and would they have had interest in Ryder for more than $3.5 million and would Ryder have had interest in the Flyers (I honestly don't know that either).

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