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Habs lose 2-1 in OT. I don't know what to think anymore.

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02-01-2014, 10:48 PM
  #326
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by CPrice View Post
I would agree with this, but we are only marginally better on defense. Their offensive core is much strong then ours as you mentioned. Big difference is the Leafs have handed out some massive contracts that will prevent them from getting much better for a number of years. The team currently isn't good enough to go deep in the playoffs.
Habs are a lot better than Toronto on defense, at both ends of the ice.

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02-01-2014, 10:50 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by CPrice View Post
Thats a huge issue we have. Way too much invested in a mediocre d corps.
Finally people are seeing the light. I made a thread a while back complaining about the money spent on a mediocre back end. To tell you the truth the D isn't that bad. Our forwards are weak which puts pressure on the D

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02-01-2014, 10:51 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Gardiner will be 24 this summer and is still a trainwreck defensively, he may never be good.

Reilly is good with the puck but terrible without it, what impact will rushing him to the NHL at 19 have? Toronto has ruined other 1st rounders that way.

Franson is a UFA this summer I believe and wasn't happy with the negotiations, is having a terrible year, probably walks...
Gardiner- Wouldn't say a train wreck defensively, but definitely no stud either. Looks like a rookie at times, but is offensively gifted.

Reilly- Noticed he has dramatically improved so far this year. As a early pick, I can't see him not panning out like first rounders picked later at the draft.

Franson- Yes, will likely leave Toronto.

They are most definitely looking to add on defense, but they have the flexibility to do so since they don't have immovable contracts on the back end. They just need to find some cap room to clear up to make it happen. That Clarkson contract is easily one of the biggest mistakes they've made in the last few years.

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02-01-2014, 10:53 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
No they don't. Their defense is just god awful, their goaltender isn't nearly as good as Price and their centre ice men are below average.

The difference is they have game breakers up front in JvR, Kessel and Lupul who actually score and don't go on 25 game holidays like ours. They out score their problems with a ridiculously high shooting percentage while giving up 35+ shots a game.

The Leafs are a mirage, don't be fooled.
I know there is a lot of "hate the Leafs" on this board but seriously, Bernier has a better save %age than Price, they have picked up their defense a lot with Gleason, they beat the Habs twice, and they certainly can score. They also, in my opinion, have better management and coaching than the Habs. They certainly aren't the Leafs laffs of five years ago and are far from being a mirage. If they ever fix up the rest of their defense, they will be a hard team to beat.

What I am seeing is them rising while the Habs are sinking.

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02-01-2014, 10:54 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Ditchweed View Post
I know there is a lot of "hate the Leafs" on this board but seriously, Bernier has a better save %age than Price, they have picked up their defense a lot with Gleason, they beat the Habs twice, and they certainly can score. They also, in my opinion, have better management and coaching than the Habs. They certainly aren't the Leafs laffs of five years ago and are far from being a mirage. If they ever fix up the rest of their defense, they will be a hard team to beat.

What I am seeing is them rising while the Habs are sinking.
I think the team had better management with Burke at the helm. I don't think so with Nonnis however. They won't be able to dramatically improve because of the large contracts they have.

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02-01-2014, 10:56 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Ditchweed View Post
I know there is a lot of "hate the Leafs" on this board but seriously, Bernier has a better save %age than Price, they have picked up their defense a lot with Gleason, they beat the Habs twice, and they certainly can score. They also, in my opinion, have better management and coaching than the Habs. They certainly aren't the Leafs laffs of five years ago and are far from being a mirage. If they ever fix up the rest of their defense, they will be a hard team to beat.

What I am seeing is them rising while the Habs are sinking.
Whether the Canadiens are any good is irrelevant to me when assessing the Leafs. They aren't anywhere near a top team, they're a mirage that outscores issues that will surface in the playoffs and down the stretch.

Montreal is crap right now with a horrible coach and a GM too scared to do anything so we aren't in any better shape. At least we know this though and aren't dancing in the streets over hitting plyaers from behind and taking a team to 7 games.

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02-01-2014, 10:57 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Ditchweed View Post
I know there is a lot of "hate the Leafs" on this board but seriously, Bernier has a better save %age than Price, they have picked up their defense a lot with Gleason, they beat the Habs twice, and they certainly can score. They also, in my opinion, have better management and coaching than the Habs. They certainly aren't the Leafs laffs of five years ago and are far from being a mirage. If they ever fix up the rest of their defense, they will be a hard team to beat.

What I am seeing is them rising while the Habs are sinking.
Leafs are skating most of the time unlike the Habs who are a bunch of pylons.

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02-01-2014, 10:59 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Ditchweed View Post
I know there is a lot of "hate the Leafs" on this board but seriously, Bernier has a better save %age than Price, they have picked up their defense a lot with Gleason, they beat the Habs twice, and they certainly can score. They also, in my opinion, have better management and coaching than the Habs. They certainly aren't the Leafs laffs of five years ago and are far from being a mirage. If they ever fix up the rest of their defense, they will be a hard team to beat.

What I am seeing is them rising while the Habs are sinking.
A lot of fans won't admit it but the Leafs future is a lot brighter than the Have. They needed a center man. They got one. They needed a #1 dman. They got one. They needed a goalie. They got one. The minute Burke stepped in there they made some very strong moves. Meanwhile the Habs still can't figure out how to address their needs.

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02-01-2014, 11:00 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by CPrice View Post

They are most definitely looking to add on defense, but they have the flexibility to do so since they don't have immovable contracts on the back end. They just need to find some cap room to clear up to make it happen. That Clarkson contract is easily one of the biggest mistakes they've made in the last few years.
I would say that Gleason is a pretty unmovable contract on their back end. Nobody will want a 3rd pairing defenseman with a 4million cap hit.

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02-01-2014, 11:02 PM
  #335
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we lost: 11 pages. you guys are too ****ing much
Then why go out of your way to comment?

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02-01-2014, 11:02 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by CPrice View Post
Gardiner- Wouldn't say a train wreck defensively, but definitely no stud either. Looks like a rookie at times, but is offensively gifted.

Reilly- Noticed he has dramatically improved so far this year. As a early pick, I can't see him not panning out like first rounders picked later at the draft.

Franson- Yes, will likely leave Toronto.

They are most definitely looking to add on defense, but they have the flexibility to do so since they don't have immovable contracts on the back end. They just need to find some cap room to clear up to make it happen. That Clarkson contract is easily one of the biggest mistakes they've made in the last few years.
They have virtually no flexibility without letting forwards go. Their money is tied up with Kessel and Phaneuf plus the ridiculous Clarkson deal. The d-men they can move/let go don't make much. Toronto is in a poor cap situation.

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02-01-2014, 11:04 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Whether the Canadiens are any good is irrelevant to me when assessing the Leafs. They aren't anywhere near a top team, they're a mirage that outscores issues that will surface in the playoffs and down the stretch.

Montreal is crap right now with a horrible coach and a GM too scared to do anything so we aren't in any better shape. At least we know this though and aren't dancing in the streets over hitting plyaers from behind and taking a team to 7 games.
Leafs need to solidify their D which is a much easier task than what the have have to fix. They need another top 4 D and they will go further than us in the playoffs.

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02-01-2014, 11:04 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by c3z4r View Post
I would say that Gleason is a pretty unmovable contract on their back end. Nobody will want a 3rd pairing defenseman with a 4million cap hit.
Yeah maybe in the long term. Right now he is definitely playing like a number 4.

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02-01-2014, 11:05 PM
  #339
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I would say that Gleason is a pretty unmovable contract on their back end. Nobody will want a 3rd pairing defenseman with a 4million cap hit.
We have gorges and emelin.

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02-01-2014, 11:05 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
They have virtually no flexibility without letting forwards go. Their money is tied up with Kessel and Phaneuf plus the ridiculous Clarkson deal. The d-men they can move/let go don't make much. Toronto is in a poor cap situation.
Absolutely agree which is why I can't see them improving much. They just don't have the flexibility to do so.

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02-01-2014, 11:07 PM
  #341
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Leafs need to solidify their D which is a much easier task than what the have have to fix. They need another top 4 D and they will go further than us in the playoffs.
They don't have a #1C which is the hardest piece of acquire of all. Kadri and Bozak are not #1's by any stretch.

I'd take the core of Pacioretty, Subban, Price, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk over Kessel, Phaneuf, Rielly, JvR and Bernier

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02-01-2014, 11:13 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by CPrice View Post
I think the team had better management with Burke at the helm. I don't think so with Nonnis however. They won't be able to dramatically improve because of the large contracts they have.
Aside from Clarkson (big mistake), when you have Kessel, Phaneuf, van Reimsdyk, and Kessel's buddy Bozak on long contracts, that actually doesn't look that bad to have them signed long term especially with a continuing rising cap.

Montreal has Pacioretty, Desharnais, Gorges, and Emelin signed longer with Subban and possibly Eller going after long contracts, after this year.

The Leafs have $21M for next year, the Habs have $25M and still need to sign Subban and Eller. Once the signings are done for both teams next year, I don't see the Habs being any better off than the Leafs.

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02-01-2014, 11:15 PM
  #343
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They don't have a #1C which is the hardest piece of acquire of all. Kadri and Bozak are not #1's by any stretch.

I'd take the core of Pacioretty, Subban, Price, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk over Kessel, Phaneuf, Rielly, JvR and Bernier
I'd take Kadri over Desharnais.

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02-01-2014, 11:16 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Ditchweed View Post
Aside from Clarkson (big mistake), when you have Kessel, Phaneuf, van Reimsdyk, and Kessel's buddy Bozak on long contracts, that actually doesn't look that bad to have them signed long term especially with a continuing rising cap.

Montreal has Pacioretty, Desharnais, Gorges, and Emelin signed longer with Subban and possibly Eller going after long contracts, after this year.

The Leafs have $21M for next year, the Habs have $25M and still need to sign Subban and Eller. Once the signings are done for both teams next year, I don't see the Habs being any better off than the Leafs.
Yep, although realistically the Leafs have set the bar relatively low.

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02-01-2014, 11:16 PM
  #345
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I'd take Kadri over Desharnais.
haha anyone would. Desharnais is hot garbage, but I wouldn't take Kadri over Galchenyuk who is the player we're leaning on to be the #1C when they're ready to compete.

Also, Plekanec is a top tier #2C and better at that role than anyone the Leafs have.

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02-01-2014, 11:19 PM
  #346
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haha anyone would. Desharnais is hot garbage, but I wouldn't take Kadri over Galchenyuk who is the player we're leaning on to be the #1C when they're ready to compete.

Also, Plekanec is a top tier #2C and better at that role than anyone the Leafs have.
You may be planning to have Galchenyuk as #1C, but management sees Desharnais as the #1C of the future, and is clearly structuring the team in that manner.

This is the Habs forward core as seen by management:

Desharnais, Pacioretty, Gallagher, Moen, Prust, maybe Galchenyuk.

Plekanec is not doing that well in our system, he is on track for a 46 point season, the second worst of his career. He may be a better player in the abstract, but in the current setup, he's average.

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02-01-2014, 11:19 PM
  #347
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They don't have a #1C which is the hardest piece of acquire of all. Kadri and Bozak are not #1's by any stretch.

I'd take the core of Pacioretty, Subban, Price, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk over Kessel, Phaneuf, Rielly, JvR and Bernier
Now
Pacioretty < Kessel
Subban > Phaneuf
Beaulieu <= Reilly
Galchenyuk <JVR

Future
Pacioretty < Kessel
Subban > Phaneuf
Beaulieu <= Reilly
Galchenyuk > JVR

Its a lot closer then we like to think.

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02-01-2014, 11:20 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You may be planning to have Galchenyuk as #1C, but management sees Desharnais as the #1C of the future, and is clearly structuring the team in that manner.

This is the Habs forward core as seen by management:

Desharnais, Pacioretty, Gallagher, Moen, Prust, maybe Galchenyuk.

Plekanec is not doing that well in our system, he is on track for a 46 point season, the second worst of his career. He may be a better player in the abstract, but in the current setup, he's average.
Why do you say thats the core for management?

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02-01-2014, 11:21 PM
  #349
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You may be planning to have Galchenyuk as #1C, but management sees Desharnais as the #1C of the future, and is clearly structuring the team in that manner.

This is the Habs forward core as seen by management:

Desharnais, Pacioretty, Gallagher, Moen, Prust, maybe Galchenyuk.

Plekanec is not doing that well in our system, he is on track for a 46 point season, the second worst of his career. He may be a better player in the abstract, but in the current setup, he's average.
Then get rid of management because they're dumb as ****. Desharnais is putrid and lucky that Pacioretty loves him because without Patches he's a 5'1" 25 point player.

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02-01-2014, 11:22 PM
  #350
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Why do you say thats the core for management?
I should have said coaching, which is in any case backed by management.

I say that based on assignments and confidence levels.

However, Bergevin is clearly a Desharnais supporter. He signed him to a 4-year contract, which suggests he doesn't think Galchenyuk will be a #1C prior to 2017-2018.

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