HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

If Kharlamov defected in 1981

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-17-2016, 05:36 PM
  #1
crobro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,305
vCash: 500
If Kharlamov defected in 1981

Valeri Kharlamov was about to defect to North America in 1981 but was cut from the 1981 canada cup team and died under mysterious circumstances that summer in Russia .

My question

Did he have enough in the tank to squeeze a few productive years in the NHL?

crobro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2016, 06:09 PM
  #2
Moose Head
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Toronto
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 2,570
vCash: 500
I don't think so. I think at best, much better than Krutov, but not as well as Makarov. I think he was burnt out by then, hence why he was cut. Plus, unlike later Soviets who joined the NHL, he would have been alone. Tough to make that type of transition at his age especially without any support system in place.

PS what's your source on his possible defection?

Moose Head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2016, 06:12 PM
  #3
crobro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,305
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Head View Post
I don't think so. I think at best, much better than Krutov, but not as well as Makarov. I think he was burnt out by then, hence why he was cut. Plus, unlike later Soviets who joined the NHL, he would have been alone. Tough to make that type of transition at his age especially without any support system in place.

PS what's your source on his possible defection?

He had been recently denied Spanish citizenship prior to being cut as his mother was Spanish Basque. And The Basque were a persecuted minority at the time in Spain.

crobro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2016, 06:29 PM
  #4
Sutter pours bourbon
katabat.bandcamp*****
 
Sutter pours bourbon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Saanichton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,179
vCash: 500
VERY interested in this topic.

Sutter pours bourbon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2016, 06:57 PM
  #5
Passchendaele
Registered User
 
Passchendaele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Laval, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,303
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by crobro View Post
Valeri Kharlamov was about to defect to North America in 1981 but was cut from the 1981 canada cup team and died under mysterious circumstances that summer in Russia .

My question

Did he have enough in the tank to squeeze a few productive years in the NHL?
What?

His wife was driving a car without having a license. There isn't any conspiracy behind this.

Passchendaele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2016, 06:59 PM
  #6
crobro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,305
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Passchendaele View Post
What?

His wife was driving a car without having a license. There isn't any conspiracy behind this.
According to the KGB.

crobro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2016, 05:51 AM
  #7
Theokritos
Moderator
 
Theokritos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,423
vCash: 500
The question still stands:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Head View Post
PS what's your source on his possible defection?

Theokritos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2016, 05:57 AM
  #8
IDeyChopNaira*
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 129
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by crobro View Post
Valeri Kharlamov was about to defect to North America in 1981 but was cut from the 1981 canada cup team and died under mysterious circumstances that summer in Russia .

My question

Did he have enough in the tank to squeeze a few productive years in the NHL?

1] This is a BS conspiracy

2] He was past him prime. If he defected in early 70s, he's d up there with the Lafleurs and the Clarkes

IDeyChopNaira* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2016, 11:38 AM
  #9
Sentinel
Registered User
 
Sentinel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 4,891
vCash: 500
If he ends up in Montreal, I think he has a few productive years in him. But I don't think it changes anything for anyone. He isn't challenging Gretzky for point totals or the Islanders for the Cups. His legend and legacy take a big, gargantuan hit in both Russia ("traitor!") and in North America ("fast decline", similar to what we are seeing in the evaluation of Makarov and Fetisov from some posters here).

Sentinel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2016, 12:00 PM
  #10
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hôlle
Posts: 27,977
vCash: 500
I obviously can't say how Kharlamov was better than Mats Naslund in 1981, if at all.

EDIT : Brainfart. Naslund joined a year later. Main LW's were Napier, Shutt, Gainey. It's safe to say Kharlamov wasn't taking Gainey's spot.


Last edited by MXD: 05-18-2016 at 12:18 PM.
MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2016, 12:02 PM
  #11
Hawksfan2828
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Libertyville, IL
Posts: 11,791
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Head View Post
I don't think so. I think at best, much better than Krutov, but not as well as Makarov. I think he was burnt out by then, hence why he was cut. Plus, unlike later Soviets who joined the NHL, he would have been alone. Tough to make that type of transition at his age especially without any support system in place.

PS what's your source on his possible defection?
IDK about that, I figure it's fairly known by now that in the USSR your hockey career was over at 30 regardless of how productive you are....

IMO, Kharlamov could have had been a useful player in the NHL at 31 for at least several more seasons.

He was Montreal property right?

Hawksfan2828 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2016, 02:06 PM
  #12
Sanf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 688
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
IDK about that, I figure it's fairly known by now that in the USSR your hockey career was over at 30 regardless of how productive you are....

IMO, Kharlamov could have had been a useful player in the NHL at 31 for at least several more seasons.

He was Montreal property right?
In some point in 70´s his negotiation rights were owned by Red Wings, but I believe that this system died in 1977. At my knowledge nobody owned his rights in 80´s.

Sanf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2016, 02:09 PM
  #13
Moose Head
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Toronto
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 2,570
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
IDK about that, I figure it's fairly known by now that in the USSR your hockey career was over at 30 regardless of how productive you are....

IMO, Kharlamov could have had been a useful player in the NHL at 31 for at least several more seasons.

He was Montreal property right?
He was almost 34 when he died in 1981 though. Not too many 34+ year olds had impact years in the NHL at that time. Most guys were retired by that age.

Moose Head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2016, 02:32 PM
  #14
JackSlater
Registered User
 
JackSlater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,207
vCash: 500
I doubt Kharlamov would have been that effective, given that he was ancient in terms of Soviet players and would have had to adapt to a radically different lifestyle and hockey system. Would have unfairly hurt his reputation in North America too given that there is no way he could live up the the earlier impression he had made.

JackSlater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-19-2016, 06:12 AM
  #15
VMBM
Amate misericordiam
 
VMBM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,519
vCash: 500
In a very suitable circumstances, who knows...

There is some suggestion that he was in better condition in the fall of '81 just prior to his death than he had been in years, but I very much doubt that he was still anywhere the player he had been in 1970-1976. I do know that the Kharlamov who played in 1977-80 was no world-beater, just a good-to-occasionally very good Russian player.

VMBM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-19-2016, 08:44 AM
  #16
Namba 17
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 379
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
it's fairly known by now that in the USSR your hockey career was over at 30 regardless of how productive you are....
That's why Boris Mikhailov won his MVPs at the age of 33 and 34 and became Soviet League top goal scorer at the age of 34, Vladimir Petrov became Soviet League leading scorer at the age of 32, Vasiliev became all-stars at the age of 32, Maltsev became the best WC forward at the age of 32 etc, etc.

Namba 17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-19-2016, 11:21 AM
  #17
Talisman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VMBM View Post
In a very suitable circumstances, who knows...

There is some suggestion that he was in better condition in the fall of '81 just prior to his death than he had been in years, but I very much doubt that he was still anywhere the player he had been in 1970-1976. I do know that the Kharlamov who played in 1977-80 was no world-beater, just a good-to-occasionally very good Russian player.
er


i remember that he was chosen rude bravos 81 best player in the toournament!!

Talisman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2016, 01:23 AM
  #18
VMBM
Amate misericordiam
 
VMBM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talisman View Post
er


i remember that he was chosen rude bravos 81 best player in the toournament!!
And that proves that he was as good as ever and would have been that for a few years to come? And I did acknowledge that reportedly he was in better form in 1981 than he had been in years.

I've watched him a lot in games from 1977-80, and he was a shadow of his former self during those years. Still a good player, yes, even glimpses of brilliance here and there, but he was not even nearly as good as in 1972-76 (especially). Did he find some kind of fountain of youth in 1981 at 33?

VMBM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-22-2016, 10:15 PM
  #19
Preisst
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Western Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,144
vCash: 500
I don't think he ever would have been an impact player in the NHL no matter when he may have defected or what age he was.

Preisst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-22-2016, 11:11 PM
  #20
Killion
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Westcoast
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,750
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preisst View Post
I don't think he ever would have been an impact player in the NHL no matter when he may have defected or what age he was.
... possibly.... as bass player for The Beach Boys Story?... Replicant for one of the Love Brothers?

Killion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2016, 02:34 PM
  #21
Preisst
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Western Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,144
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... possibly.... as bass player for The Beach Boys Story?... Replicant for one of the Love Brothers?
Not as a bass player. He was a nice little player for the European style of hockey played during his career. He would have been eaten alive in North America.

Preisst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2016, 07:05 PM
  #22
Moose Head
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Toronto
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 2,570
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preisst View Post

Not as a bass player. He was a nice little player for the European style of hockey played during his career. He would have been eaten alive in North America.
I disagree. If a guy like Mats Naslund could come over a carve himself a very nice career, a guy like Kharlamov could have done much better in similar circumstances.

Moose Head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2016, 07:35 PM
  #23
Preisst
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Western Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,144
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Head View Post
I disagree. If a guy like Mats Naslund could come over a carve himself a very nice career, a guy like Kharlamov could have done much better in similar circumstances.
No problem. He just may have. We will never ever know. It's all speculation.

Preisst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2016, 09:48 AM
  #24
IDeyChopNaira*
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 129
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preisst View Post

Not as a bass player. He was a nice little player for the European style of hockey played during his career. He would have been eaten alive in North America.

Yes right.... Just as "nice little" Pavel Bure was eaten in North America...

IDeyChopNaira* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2016, 12:00 PM
  #25
Preisst
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Western Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,144
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDeyChopNaira View Post
Yes right.... Just as "nice little" Pavel Bure was eaten in North America...
I'd be interested in knowing how you know for a fact how he would have done?

Preisst is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:22 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2016 All Rights Reserved.