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top 3 teams of the west

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Old
09-28-2003, 07:04 PM
  #1
lace-em'-up
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top 3 teams of the west

what would you guys say about them?

dallas
detroit
colorado

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Old
09-28-2003, 07:06 PM
  #2
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Vancouver could very possibly outdo Detroit and Dallas in the standings this year.

I'd say

Colorado
Detroit
Vancouver

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Old
09-28-2003, 07:16 PM
  #3
lace-em'-up
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i think naslund and bert will start cooling off. and they dont have that great of goaltending though it can hold them over.

dallas:110-120 pts
detroit:110-120 pts
colorado:110-120 pts
vancouver:100-110 pts

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Old
09-28-2003, 07:31 PM
  #4
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Don't forget St Louis people. Pronger is back, Jackman is a year older, and hopefully they wont be forced to go with 17 different goaltenders this season. Ive been hearing good things about Sejna too.

I think that right now they're as good as anyone in the West.

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Old
09-28-2003, 07:39 PM
  #5
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dallas
colorado
anaheim

 
Old
09-28-2003, 07:44 PM
  #6
ZadorovNJD*
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Anaheim? If they finish ahead of Vancouver, Detroit, and St. Louis, I'll eat my shoes.

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Old
09-28-2003, 07:54 PM
  #7
evildreams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie
Anaheim? If they finish ahead of Vancouver, Detroit, and St. Louis, I'll eat my shoes.
IMO ANA is one of the 3 best teams out west, but will they be one of the top 3 western conference teams in terns of the standings? absolutely not; stl and det play in a ***** division with a bunch of freebie automatic 2 pters. (nsh, chi, clb), col is ridiculously stacked, vcr is carried just enough by marjus/todd to beat up on everyone in the central except col, and dal is the best defensive team outside of nj. so...

w/o standings:
DAL
COL
ANA
VAN
DET
STL

w/ standings:
DET
DAL
COL
STL
VAN
ANA

 
Old
09-28-2003, 08:00 PM
  #8
think-blue-
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loveshack2
Don't forget St Louis people. Pronger is back, Jackman is a year older, and hopefully they wont be forced to go with 17 different goaltenders this season. Ive been hearing good things about Sejna too.

I think that right now they're as good as anyone in the West.
Definately agree.

Some of the holes in the lineup are not so apparant as the ones in Det (Lack of a top flight C), Col (goaltending, coaching), Van (2nd line Scoring).

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Old
09-28-2003, 08:22 PM
  #9
andora
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detroit
st.louis
dallas

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Old
09-28-2003, 08:27 PM
  #10
Upon1
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IMO In terms of predicted standings:
DAL
COL
STL

IMO In terms of best teams in the west as they stand:
DAL
DET
COL

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Old
09-28-2003, 08:44 PM
  #11
Ajacied
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Regular season:

- COL
- DAL
- DET

Playoffs:

- DET
- DAL
- COL

Special teams:

- DAL: Ranked in the top 5 for both categories.
- DET: Ranked in the top 10 for both categories.
- COL: Decent PP should improve, awful PK will get even worse.

Netminding:

- DET: Hasek has his own questionmark these days, but even at 80%, Hasek is among the top. Add Cujo and Legace and don't let your jaw touch the ground.

- DAL: Turco was arguably league's top netminder last season, let him prove so again. Tugnutt, reliable, capable backup who's been a great tutor for, Marty.

- COL: The Avs weakest link, Aebischer is unproven and coming of a rather sub-par season as a backup. Add another unproven one, prospect Phillipe Sauve, and it's the worst by a decent margain.

Forward depth

- DAL: While I feel the Avs top 6 is great, and their 3rd line isn't shabby either, the Stars simply have more toys to play with. They have a more diversed forward crop with no to few weaknesses.

- COL: Arguably the sweetest top 6 assembled during the last decade, a decent 3rd line but a horrible 4th. Lack grit and defensive forwards as well.

- DET: Not as bad as people claim, the Wings have a deep and balanced offense, only without a true first liner. Here's to see if Hull can repeat.

Defensive depth

- DET: They have a sweet defense, but IMO still behind the Sens, moot point anyways. Though some negatives: Chelios is on the decline big time, not as solid and lethal as he was a few seasons ago. Schneider is inconsistant defensively, but a great PP QB, Fisher has to prove his injury didn't affect his game.

- COL: I rate their Defense barely past the Stars, Foote, Morris and Blake is a great top 3, though this too, has it's questionmarks. Can Morris repeat and ignore his hand injury? Was last years Blake the real one? Can he rebound? Foote.. nothing.. a rock. Skoula has to overcome an awful year as well, he just was frustrating bad. Finally Skrastins, solid, but unspectacular, not as good as deVries, but a decent #5. Do lack a #6 IMO.

- DAL: Personally, I'd throw a combo of Zubov and Numminen against any other in the world. Numminen is a qiuet warrior, though he has to show he can adjust playing in a new system, new teammates, while rebounding from a Sub-par season. Zubov.. nothing.. supurb.. I feel he can make some Norris noise this year. Matvichuk was horrendous last season, he came back too early. He has to rebound, and rebound good. Phillipe Boucher, by some pegged as the Stars #1, just needs to stay healthy, that's his biggest flaw. Robidas, Erskine and Sweeney round it out nicely.

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Old
09-28-2003, 10:20 PM
  #12
andora
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not only that, but dallas has lost that whole intimidation factor of the other team rushing the puck.. boucher can throw hits sure.. but he isn't as simply dirty as hatcher, which intimidated teams for years..

numminen/zubov/matvichuk/sweeney/robidas/erskine...

sure, i'll rush it in..

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Old
09-28-2003, 10:36 PM
  #13
andora
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which in turn could limit turco's effectiveness as teams may rush it in more instead of dumping it a majority of the time

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Old
09-28-2003, 11:01 PM
  #14
Ajacied
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurupt
Erskine and Robidas don't round it out nicely .
Hell yeah they do, obviously you don't know them very well.

Robidas was better then both Sydor and Matvichuk by a decent margain last season. He isn't a fan favorite for nothing. He's feisty, plays with a lot of heart, possesses a good skillset and is very solid defensively. At 24 or 25 he has room for more improvenment too. I didn't like his name when we got him either, but the dude can play. I also have some quotes from Gretzky (Phoenix wanted him too) and Armstrong where they are simply raving about him but I'm at work..

As for Erskine:

Quote:
Doug Armstrong - There are opportunities. Opportunities for John Erskine now. John is represented by the same agent as Derian. When we drafted him, [his agent] said 'You've got the next Derian Hatcher.' Maybe I will hold him to that."
He's been one of our top 3 prospects for a few seasons now, time for him to make an impact. He's huge, reliable, and punishing. He will also replace Hatcher's toughness as John drops the mits faster then you can blink.

Also, saying how Turco won't be as good because of Hatcher is either:

A) plain stupid
B) wishful thinking
C) lack of aknowledge.
D) All of the above

I'm leaning towards D..

He had nothing to with Turco's succes. Sure Hatch was a big part of our PK, but with Matvichuk, Boucher, Zubov, Numminen, it won't as hard replacing him. But Tippet is a special team specialist, I'm sure he will find a way.

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Old
09-29-2003, 02:26 AM
  #15
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Detroit's lack of a first line centre is overrated, IMO. It's an issue...but not as big of one as most seem to think. The circus that is their goalie situation is going to hold them back more than the centre issue.

That said:

Alphabetically:
1)Colorado
2)Dallas
3)Detroit

Chronologically:
1)Detroit
2)Dallas
3)Colorado

Latitudinally:
1)Detroit
2)Colorado
3)Dallas

End of the year Standings:
Anyone's guess.

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Old
09-29-2003, 08:17 AM
  #16
The Frugal Gourmet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora's box
not only that, but dallas has lost that whole intimidation factor of the other team rushing the puck.. boucher can throw hits sure.. but he isn't as simply dirty as hatcher, which intimidated teams for years..

sure, i'll rush it in..
Why would anyone avoid rushing in on Hatcher when you can just skate by the man with ease?

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Old
09-29-2003, 08:21 AM
  #17
kmad
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Detroit
Colorado
St Louis

and then
Vancouver

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Old
09-29-2003, 08:56 AM
  #18
Legionnaire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodvinge
Detroit's lack of a first line centre is overrated, IMO. It's an issue...but not as big of one as most seem to think.
You're darn right about that. Zetterberg has looked like a completely different player this pre-season, he was everywhere in both games that I saw. Between Zetts and Whitney they should easily make up the offense that was lost with Fedorov's departure; the defense may be a different story

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Old
09-29-2003, 12:43 PM
  #19
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Detroit, Colorado, and Dallas are the class of the West, though St. Louis and Vancouver aren't far behind After the Canucks implosion to lose the division last year, I'm not convinced that they are going to be able to compete with Colorado this year either.

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Old
09-29-2003, 01:02 PM
  #20
The Frugal Gourmet
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Some random thoughts...

1) St. Louis, top tier yet?: I always see St. Louis as right up there with the "big three" and every season I predict a coup of sorts... or at least a great playoff run.. and every season I am wrong. Maybe soon, though. On paper, I think that team is pretty top notch. But on the ice? Something always seem to happen... usually they blame it on the goaltender, but I think there have been other failings less emphasized (perhaps unfairly). If St. Louis doesn't establish themself as an elite team this season, I'm no longer sure it's all Osgood's fault. How many goalies have they tried now?

2) Vancouver: I dunno. Their strength is firepower, but Colorado has them beat on all fronts this season... except maybe goaltending. But does anyone believe Lacroix sits back and does nothing if his goaltender struggles? Hell no. This guy won't hesitate if Aebischer fails.

3) Colorado: Best in the West. I think Colorado is the class of the West, frankly. Goaltending may be the most important position in hockey, but the advantage is there's only one guy you need to change if it doesn't work out.

4) The Trade Deadline: Watch out for it. This is *THE* season of the rent-a-player. Think about it. How many UFA's are hitting the market before the potential lockout? Colorado struggles in goal? They'll have a new 'tender at the deadline. Detroit needs more firepower? I guarantee they pick someone up. Dallas needs more defense? I guarantee they shop for a UFA, if that turns out to be the case.

5) Anaheim: Not elite, but this team is pretty good. There's a lot of negative wishful thinking going on regarding Anaheim this season (they'll be another Carolina, they'll fail, etc.). But, frankly, I don't see it. Look at this team. They are really quite solid, and they will be a nuisance. I guarantee it.

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Old
09-29-2003, 01:12 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = God
Forward depth

- DAL: While I feel the Avs top 6 is great, and their 3rd line isn't shabby either, the Stars simply have more toys to play with. They have a more diversed forward crop with no to few weaknesses.

- COL: Arguably the sweetest top 6 assembled during the last decade, a decent 3rd line but a horrible 4th. Lack grit and defensive forwards as well.
Dude, how hard is it to find 4th line players? I could urinate three 4th line players for you right now without even breaking a sweat. They'll probably pick up at least 2 at the deadline.

As good as Dallas's forward depth may be, the simple fact reminds that Colorado has 5 superstar players better than all but one player on the Stars (Dallas's only superstar forward, your namesake).

Now, I would easily say Dallas has top 5 forward depth, but Colorado's forward core is like a whole new world of greatness. These 5 guys could be individual stars on any team in the league playing 20+ minutes a game. Their forward core is simply head and shoulders above anyone elses.

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Old
09-29-2003, 01:41 PM
  #22
Enoch
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Colorado's bottom lines are looking very good this year in my opinion. THey finally have a problem deciding who to cut at camp, and are very tough . PL did a good job of facelifting these lines this off-season and honestly I think the Avs only potential weakness is goaltending. If preseason is any answer, Aeb has been playing spectacular.

As for Dallas.......hey I think they have it all. I think Dallas matches up the best against all of the top tier teams, however, that does not guarantee they will win *last year is my example...i felt like they easily had the best team out there and truly got under the skin of Giguere but lost it due to lack of discipline*.

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Old
09-29-2003, 02:44 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurupt
Without Hatcher the Stars' penalty kill gets worse and so does Turco's stats . Nobody to clear out the front of the net , maybe Boucher but not likely .

Turco won't match last year's performace especially without Hatcher .
Incase you had not noticed, Hatcher did not do such a great job clearing out the net this past season, much less the previous one.

As for the Robidas comment. I'd put him up against any 5th/6th D-man in the league. He may be small, but the lil guy has balls the size of Texas and is tough as nails. He shrugs off hits from the big brutes of the league like water off a ducks back.

Erskine is a big question mark. He is a bad passer, poor defensive awarness, but he is as big as a house. I predict he either gets traded or placed on waivers before the end of November.

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Old
09-29-2003, 02:50 PM
  #24
Vincent Vega
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1. Colorado - 114 pts
2. Dallas - 109 pts
3. Detroit - 104 pts

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Old
09-29-2003, 02:51 PM
  #25
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I think a lot of people out there are also forgetting Matvichuk.

The guy had a bad year and broke his leg. He suffered from being the odd man out on the 3rd pairing a lot of the time.

He can be a physical monster. Just ask Hedjuk and Forsberg. Or talk to Mellanby, I'm sure he would have the usual kind things to say about him.

The rush might become more effective against Dallas, but Matty, Boucher, and even little Robidas can stand people up and lay them out at the blueline.

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