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What Do Think of the Kings Now?

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Old
08-07-2005, 12:23 AM
  #1
Tadite
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What Do Think of the Kings Now?

Ok so the signing season is nearly over. More then likely we now know what the Kings are going to be like (unless DT has a few more aces up is sleeve.)

Forward:

Frolov (God I hope we get him), Roenick (at least to some degree), Demitra

Brown/Luc (I donít think Luc is up to top-6 minutes for the whole season), Conroy, Cammy (who else do we got?)

Luc/Brown, Eric Bel (still the only thing we have close to a real 3rd line NHL center and is light-years ahead of Armstrong), Avery

Cowan, Armstrong , Kostopoulos (frankly the whole 4th line is inter-changeable. None of them stand out all that much)

Defense:

Norstrom-Visnovsky
Gleason-Dempsey
?Corvo?-Miller


Looking at this team we are thin on skilled scoring wings. If anything happens to Demitra (which seems to happen to him yearly) we are left having to hope and pray for each goal we get after that. Better hope that Cammy steps up because if he doesnít Frolov is going to be the only real legit scoring threat on the team. Lucky with JR and Conroy we do have some str and toughness down the center something we havenít had in years.

A possible problem is that we are relying on two players who are both in the later seasons of their careers. JR had some serious medical problems last season and their was real talk he would just retire. Luc also talked about retirement. I wonder how good it is to be somewhat dependent on these two vets for our top-6 and PP.

I think a real weakness for this team is our defense. We don't have a real number 1 d-man. We are also depending on if Garon (or whichever of the other rookie goalies we signed) can step up and be at least a decent starter.

All in all we are a not practically fast team that has a little toughness but not enough to be a bruising team. Kind of a tweener between the different styles of hockey teams.

I think we are a 7th or 8th playoff team. And thatís only if things work out for us and we donít have some major injuries (we have a lot of players that are injury prone on this team, no Frolov however means no chance).

What is nice is that we also have a lot of contracts that are ending after this season so if things donít work out all that well we will still be in the mix for that horde of talented UFA next year.

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Old
08-07-2005, 12:28 AM
  #2
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nearly over? one week into a six week period?

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Old
08-07-2005, 12:30 AM
  #3
Tadite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quattro
nearly over? one week into a six week period?

sure. all the big names are signed. unless some huge trade happens this is our team.

only thing that could change it is if we get Klatt back and thats just a 2nd/3rd liner at best.

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08-07-2005, 12:49 AM
  #4
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...

It'll be a big kick in the gut if we lose Frolov for this year. We'll be competitive without him but we won't win anything. With Palffy gone, he's our best player. He better come back! You hear me Alex?!

Predictions:

-I really believe Dustin Brown will have a great year. You guys think 40+ points is too optimistic? I also hope Cammy can score 20 goals for us this year. I think they both can do it.

-I like Garon and hope he can hold up in his first full season as a number 1. Realistically though i think he'll be up and down all year but still leave a good impression.

-Frolov, if he plays for us, will have a career year. He'll put up around 70 points.

-Roenick will reach 500 goals for us this year and will be a fan favorite.

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Old
08-07-2005, 12:52 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadite
Ok so the signing season is nearly over. More then likely we now know what the Kings are going to be like (unless DT has a few more aces up is sleeve.)

Forward:

Frolov (God I hope we get him), Roenick (at least to some degree), Demitra

Brown/Luc (I donít think Luc is up to top-6 minutes for the whole season), Conroy, Cammy (who else do we got?)

Luc/Brown, Eric Bel (still the only thing we have close to a real 3rd line NHL center and is light-years ahead of Armstrong), Avery

Cowan, Armstrong , Kostopoulos (frankly the whole 4th line is inter-changeable. None of them stand out all that much)

Defense:

Norstrom-Visnovsky
Gleason-Dempsey
?Corvo?-Miller


Looking at this team we are thin on skilled scoring wings. If anything happens to Demitra (which seems to happen to him yearly) we are left having to hope and pray for each goal we get after that. Better hope that Cammy steps up because if he doesnít Frolov is going to be the only real legit scoring threat on the team. Lucky with JR and Conroy we do have some str and toughness down the center something we havenít had in years.

A possible problem is that we are relying on two players who are both in the later seasons of their careers. JR had some serious medical problems last season and their was real talk he would just retire. Luc also talked about retirement. I wonder how good it is to be somewhat dependent on these two vets for our top-6 and PP.

I think a real weakness for this team is our defense. We don't have a real number 1 d-man. We are also depending on if Garon (or whichever of the other rookie goalies we signed) can step up and be at least a decent starter.

All in all we are a not practically fast team that has a little toughness but not enough to be a bruising team. Kind of a tweener between the different styles of hockey teams.

I think we are a 7th or 8th playoff team. And thatís only if things work out for us and we donít have some major injuries (we have a lot of players that are injury prone on this team, no Frolov however means no chance).

What is nice is that we also have a lot of contracts that are ending after this season so if things donít work out all that well we will still be in the mix for that horde of talented UFA next year.
good ideas....though i would place either brown or Luc on the 1st line rather than frolov....and i think Armstrong is a much better player than Belanger...but who knows, maybe Belagner finally breaks out this year

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Old
08-07-2005, 12:53 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindcircus
It'll be a big kick in the gut if we lose Frolov for this year. We'll be competitive without him but we won't win anything. With Palffy gone, he's our best player. He better come back! You hear me Alex?!

Predictions:

-I really believe Dustin Brown will have a great year. You guys think 40+ points is too optimistic? I also hope Cammy can score 20 goals for us this year. I think they both can do it.

-I like Garon and hope he can hold up in his first full season as a number 1. Realistically though i think he'll be up and down all year but still leave a good impression.

-Frolov, if he plays for us, will have a career year. He'll put up around 70 points.

-Roenick will reach 500 goals for us this year and will be a fan favorite.
Well said but i expect 50 pts for Brown and Camms 30 goals i set high goals and if Frolov only puts 70 pts i'll be pissed to i want 80+

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Old
08-07-2005, 12:58 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnThGrt
Well said but i expect 50 pts for Brown and Camms 30 goals i set high goals and if Frolov only puts 70 pts i'll be pissed to i want 80+
You blew my numbers out of the water there.

If we get that production we'll be competing for the cup.

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Old
08-07-2005, 01:23 AM
  #8
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Good: AM is great with working with less talent and making a team

Bad: We don't have enough experienced talent(though I think the kids will do fine) to be a true contender yet. Also, there are really be questions in goal. Was Garon just bored last season? Or is he really going to be inconsistant?

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08-07-2005, 06:17 AM
  #9
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Get that Bombardir guy. He had a good playoff run with the Wild 2-3 years ago.

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Old
08-07-2005, 07:05 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadite
Eric Bel (still the only thing we have close to a real 3rd line NHL center and is light-years ahead of Armstrong)
What the hell are you talking about?
Belanger light-years ahead of Armstrong? In which movie?

If Demitra (or JR, depends who'll play wing) is our #1 center and if Conroy is our #2 center, you can bet Armstrong is going to be our#3 and Belanger will get a ticket for the 4th line.

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08-07-2005, 07:16 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire
Good: AM is great with working with less talent and making a team

Bad: We don't have enough experienced talent(though I think the kids will do fine) to be a true contender yet. Also, there are really be questions in goal. Was Garon just bored last season? Or is he really going to be inconsistant?
Garon wasn't bored, the team in front of him had many holes. With all of the offense that Manchester put up, he seemed not to be in the games mentally. He let in WAY to many soft goals in my mind.

Manchester would be pressing with that stellar "perimeter" (no shots from the slot) hockey for the better part of a period and then the other team gets an odd man rush and scores on a wrist shot from the dot.

I will say that in the first few shootouts Garon made a couple of beatiful saves.

Maybe my fellow Monarch fans can elaborate.

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Old
08-07-2005, 11:30 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albi
What the hell are you talking about?
Belanger light-years ahead of Armstrong? In which movie?

If Demitra (or JR, depends who'll play wing) is our #1 center and if Conroy is our #2 center, you can bet Armstrong is going to be our#3 and Belanger will get a ticket for the 4th line.
Exacxtly. Belanger has proven he will never be a goal scorer but he is a premier penalty killer, a great guy to have on the 4th line with Avery.

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Old
08-07-2005, 11:43 AM
  #13
Tadite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albi
What the hell are you talking about?
Belanger light-years ahead of Armstrong? In which movie?

If Demitra (or JR, depends who'll play wing) is our #1 center and if Conroy is our #2 center, you can bet Armstrong is going to be our#3 and Belanger will get a ticket for the 4th line.

Armstrong is 32 years old. He isn't as good as Eric on Face Offs, Speed, Skill, and Defense. He also isn't as good at offense.

Only thing Armstrong has is that he is a nice guy who plays the game hard.

He is still just a 4th line depth player at best. Only reason he was a top-6 on our team was because we had pathetic depth at Center.

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08-07-2005, 11:48 AM
  #14
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I think I am complaining and worried but I am still loyal to my team and planning to purchase my season seats with my group

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Old
08-07-2005, 12:05 PM
  #15
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They could be the worst team in the conference, or make the finals. You just don't know. Nobody picked the Flames to make the playoffs with Iginla and nothing else. Nobody knew who Kiprusoff was before February. Nobody picked the Ducks to make the playoffs. Giguere was just a guy who had been traded twice before he ever did anything in the NHL. Nobody figured the Wild would make the conference finals with Gaborik and a bunch of castoffs. Nobody thought the Sharks would get to the playoffs, let alone the conference finals, when they were going into that season with Nils Ekman, Alyn McCauley, and Jonathan Cheechoo as guys they ended up counting on for 70 combined goals. 70 goals, from Ekman, McCauley, and Cheechoo.

With Detroit, Colorado, Dallas, and St. Louis all being human, you just don't know. Vancouver has lost some depth on defense. I'm certainly not saying the Kings will contend for the cup. But I also can't say they won't. Nobody can say, with anything backing them up, that the Kings cannot make the 2nd round, or the conference finals, or if everything falls right, the finals.

I know, that's hoping for everything to go right. Typical cheap Kings. Well, the all-star team in Colorado that was supposed to challenge the Oilers scoring record didn't exactly do what everyone thought they would. So even if you load up on six 50 goal scorers, you still need things to fall right in the end. You just never know.

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Old
08-07-2005, 12:13 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadite
Armstrong is 32 years old. He isn't as good as Eric on Face Offs, Speed, Skill, and Defense. He also isn't as good at offense.

Only thing Armstrong has is that he is a nice guy who plays the game hard.

He is still just a 4th line depth player at best. Only reason he was a top-6 on our team was because we had pathetic depth at Center.
Yeah, we were pathetic at center and on our depth chart Belanger was behind him.
Belanger WAS very good on faceoff, now he's just average, maybe he's a better defensive forward, but at offense, C-O-M-E O-N, how can you say EBell is better than Army? The fact he scores one highlight reel goal every 3-4 months doesn't make him the best offensive player of the 2.

As you said, we were pathetic at center, and Belanger played on our 2nd line just for a short stint in 2003-04 (with Frolov and Klatt as wings). When did it happen? When Armstrong was sidelined because of an injury. This doesnt' mean I want to see Armstrong on one of 2 top units this season, of course not.

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Old
08-07-2005, 12:25 PM
  #17
Tadite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albi
Yeah, we were pathetic at center and on our depth chart Belanger was behind him.
Belanger WAS very good on faceoff, now he's just average, maybe he's a better defensive forward, but at offense, C-O-M-E O-N, how can you say EBell is better than Army? The fact he scores one highlight reel goal every 3-4 months doesn't make him the best offensive player of the 2.

As you said, we were pathetic at center, and Belanger played on our 2nd line just for a short stint in 2003-04 (with Frolov and Klatt as wings). When did it happen? When Armstrong was sidelined because of an injury. This doesnt' mean I want to see Armstrong on one of 2 top units this season, of course not.

Eric can do something Armstrong can never do. PLAY DEFENSE! The whole reason Armstrong "moved up" to play with Palffy was because we still needed Eric to win face offs and try to shut down other teams top line. All Armstrong had to do was pass to Frolov and Palffy. And because he couldn't do anything else thats why it became his job.

Good god man Eric has one bad year and people are droping him below a career minor leaguer?

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08-07-2005, 12:41 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadite
Armstrong is 32 years old. He isn't as good as Eric on Face Offs, Speed, Skill, and Defense. He also isn't as good at offense.

Only thing Armstrong has is that he is a nice guy who plays the game hard.

He is still just a 4th line depth player at best. Only reason he was a top-6 on our team was because we had pathetic depth at Center.
Are you serious? Belanger better than Army? The Kings brass thinks so to right? That's why they inked Army to a million dollar contract, something Belanger will never be worthy of. Belanger hasn't HIT anybody since his first season as a King. He was caught so many times wandering it wasn't even funny. His face-offs dipped beyond belief, and his defensive skills were suspect.

KNOW YOUR ROLE!

Belanger is suppose to be better than Army at the defensive side of the game. That's a given. People that don't even follow hockey could figure that out. He's on the third line? OK, he's a checking guy.............but he really doesn't check. He's reached his peak. He couldn't even tear up the Italian league.

Army was by far the best player on most nights. He'll never have the big name tag, but he's honest in what he does, and he has heart. Which he's proved throughout his career to get to the big show. Is he a first line center...NO. But he'll prove most of you wrong again this year by outplaying Conroy on the second line. I could almost guarantee that some of you have never even seen Conroy play. Don't be looking for much!

Belanger should move to fourth line, or put him in DT section.

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Old
08-07-2005, 01:00 PM
  #19
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I cant believe their is an arguement over who is better, Armstrong or Belanger.


Taste Great, Less Filing, Taste Great, Less Filing.......

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08-07-2005, 08:56 PM
  #20
Tadite
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Well we seem to maybe have Klatt. Something I am more then happy about. Another physical guy who can play 3rd line or fill in up on the top-6 is always nice to have on the team.

Real NHL depth is always a good thing.

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Old
08-07-2005, 09:40 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadite
Real NHL depth is always a good thing.
Unless you're the number 1 goalie for your minor league affilliate, right?

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08-07-2005, 11:38 PM
  #22
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They both suck, end of debate. On any other club you're looking at 4th line players if they could even break that. These guys are easily replaceable. We gave one a million----wish we had the same passion to do that w/ some high-profile talent, but I guess our tight-wad team can only max out w/ 4th line price tags. There's no commitment to winning here that I can see. I can't yell loud enough for anyone to get things done in the front office. I'll always be a King's fan but come on, will I go to my grave before we win a cup (or for that matter are even contenders on a regular basis)?

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Old
08-08-2005, 01:30 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swinginutter
His face-offs dipped beyond belief
Belanger's Face Off %
02-03 51.8% good for 23rd in the League.
03-04 53.7% good for 19th in the League.

Great Dip!

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Old
08-08-2005, 02:30 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Belanger25
Belanger's Face Off %
02-03 51.8% good for 23rd in the League.
03-04 53.7% good for 19th in the League.

Great Dip!

What respectable numbers, for our defensive specialist. Belanger has peaked as far as skill and grit will go. He bulked up from his 140 cents wet frame to finally get rid of his injury curse, only to be caught wandering and to have a disgraceful +/- (-16) when he was on a line with Lappy (-4) and Avery (+2).......He should either be moved or look for tickets in the McDonalds section. I know you're a fan of Belanger, as I was once. But he needs some serious vigor, and he needs to get hungry again. I would hope he proves me wrong. But comparing him to Army is a waste of time. Army's hunger hasn't died down, because he feels he has to earn a roster spot every night.

I'd package Belanger, Miller and pick for either Souray or Rivet. Those Hab fans love anything to do with a French name.

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Old
08-08-2005, 02:55 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swinginutter
What respectable numbers, for our defensive specialist. Belanger has peaked as far as skill and grit will go. He bulked up from his 140 cents wet frame to finally get rid of his injury curse, only to be caught wandering and to have a disgraceful +/- (-16) when he was on a line with Lappy (-4) and Avery (+2).......He should either be moved or look for tickets in the McDonalds section. I know you're a fan of Belanger, as I was once. But he needs some serious vigor, and he needs to get hungry again. I would hope he proves me wrong. But comparing him to Army is a waste of time. Army's hunger hasn't died down, because he feels he has to earn a roster spot every night.

I'd package Belanger, Miller and pick for either Souray or Rivet. Those Hab fans love anything to do with a French name.
While he did have a very bad year last year maybe he will turn it around. He obviously did not perform his best in a contract year. I've also wondered why his +/- was so poor compared to Avery and Lappy. There is obviously more to it. It wouldn't make sense that 3 players that for 80% of the year played on the same line would have 1 player with a much higher +/-. Was it that he was taking so faceoffs late in games when Avery wasn't out. I'm not sure it is confusing to me.

Also looking at Kris Draper of Detroit. He had his best year at the age of 33. Belanger is still 6 years away from that point. You never really know when I player has hit their peak as Draper is now considered better then he has ever been before.

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