Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
Gives Ottawa the big strong proven scoring center they need while helping Boston fill out its roster with an elite 1st line winger, a 2nd line center, and a grinder.
EDIT: Changed 1st to 2nd rounder.
Last edited by Release The Lehner: 08-07-2005 at 01:32 AM.
Thornton- scores a point per game
Alfredsson- scores a point per game
Alfredsson- has produced very well in the playoffs
Thornton- no comment
Alfredsson- two years remaining at a very reasonable price
Thornton- no contract, 1-year remaining until UFA, rumours of unreasonable contract demands.
Alfredsson- has produced very well in the playoffs
Thornton- no comment
Alfredsson- two years remaining at a very reasonable price
Thornton- no contract, 1-year remaining until UFA, rumours of unreasonable contract demands.
Alfredsson's 3% shooting last year and 1 goal against Toronto last year does not equal "showing up in the playoffs"; and Thornton was injured last year, he could have easily just sat out those games then his playoff stats would be decent.
But here are some pros for the deal:
- Alf 32 yrs old, Thornton 26
- Gives us the big strong center we've always wanted and allows Spezza to develop on the 2nd line rather than putting all the pressure on him in his first season.
- Allows Havlat to jump up to solid second line duty on the RW (his natural position).
- Including Smolinski allows us to pay Big Joe his salary (say $30M over 5 yrs)
- It gives us a franchise CENTER
Last edited by Release The Lehner: 08-07-2005 at 01:26 AM.
if Ottawa could sign him to a good contract for many years, i say they should do it. But chances of fitting him with all there other free agents they need to sign are very unlikely.
Alfredsson's 3% shooting last year and 1 goal against Toronto last year does not equal "showing up in the playoffs"; and Thornton was injured last year, he could have easily just sat out those games then his playoff stats would be decent.
- You've only been watching the team for a season?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Senator
But here are some pros for the deal:
1 - Alf 32 yrs old, Thornton 26
2 - Gives us the big strong center we've always wanted and allows Spezza to develop on the 2nd line rather than putting all the pressure on him in his first season.
3 - Allows Havlat to jump up to solid second line duty on the RW (his natural position).
4 - Including Smolinski allows us to pay Big Joe his salary (say $30M over 5 yrs)
1- I'm sure the team signing Thornton away from Ottawa will appreciate his youth. Alfredsson will still be in Boston for another year. The Sens burn a guy who has been committed to this team for years and would probably sign another long term deal at a reasonable price.
2- Spezza's been shielded long enough. He has experience. He'll be fine.
3- Havlat hasn't done as well in the playoffs as Alfredsson. He also can't QB the PP if Ottawa loses Redden or Chara. He also doesn't work hard every shift.
4- I'm not a huge Smoke fan... but I'd rather have Alfie&Smoke under the cap than Thornton&Bonvie (or whatever player would sign a minimum salary deal).
Why would Boston make this trade? They trade their 26 year old franchise player for one good (but thirty something) player, a bunch of spare parts, and a second round pick. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Something you should note "The Senator", NHL teams don't base their decisions on trade values in EA Sports games.
- You've only been watching the team for a season?
Alfredsson has only had one good playoff year. He wasn't around last year AT ALL. The year before when we needed him when we went to the conference finals he didn't do much. The year before was when he showed up but hey guess what other than that he's been nothing to write home about.
Thornton was injured last year, which is no secret. He probably should have sat out most of those games but didn't and it skews his stats. If you take away that season and recognize that he was a rookie in his first playoffs his stats are fairly respectable. It's true they're nothing spectacular but on a stronger team I think he'd get the job done better than Alfredsson.
To me, this is a deal you do in a heartbeat if you're Ottawa, although I don't know what Smolinski adds to the deal except for Ottawa to get rid of someone most of their fans consider to be overpaid.
Alfredsson has a so-called "reasonable" contract because he's not that good. Personally, I think he's overpaid, but I guess there's some intangible there that I'm simply not seeing. At all. I'm not saying he's not a good player, but I don't think he should be making $4.6M.
Alfredsson for Thornton -- no brainer, Ottawa takes it. Boston can certainly do better.
Alfredsson and Smolinski for Thornton -- pretty much the same. Ottawa hesitates a half-second because they haven't been scouting 3rd liners.
Alfredsson, Smolinski and Varada for Thornton -- that actually starts to hurt Ottawa a little. They look at Thornton again and get over it. Boston remembers how much they hate Darcy Tucker, and consider what Varada could potentially do to him, were he in the mood.
Alfredsson, Smolinski, Varada and a pick -- same as above, plus Ottawa knows they no longer have the scouting staff that pointed them to Hossa and Havlat and all their other late gems. Boston's still not entirely impressed, but maybe they have a lot of faith in their scouting staff and still don't have a better offer on the table.
Thornton was injured last year, which is no secret. He probably should have sat out most of those games but didn't and it skews his stats. If you take away that season and recognize that he was a rookie in his first playoffs his stats are fairly respectable. It's true they're nothing spectacular but on a stronger team I think he'd get the job done better than Alfredsson.
Skews his stats?
6 playoff series.... 6 goals. You dress that pig up anyway you like.
Alfredsson has been the only player doing anything for the team in the playoffs every year since they first made it. Last season, he was bad and Hossa was good. Which was bound to create fairweather fans with short memories.
Why would Boston make this trade? They trade their 26 year old franchise player for one good (but thirty something) player, a bunch of spare parts, and a second round pick. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Something you should note "The Senator", NHL teams don't base their decisions on trade values in EA Sports games.
Of course they don't WANT to trade him. This scenario is based on the widely held assumption that Thornton doesn't want to be there because the organization hung him out to dry after last years playoffs. It'd also be contigent on us signing him to a long term deal.
If I made the proposal based on EA games it would be like this: sign 30 free agents, trade players for draft picks, combine picks and trade for 1st round draft picks, trade 1st round picks for Thornton.
Thornton in Ottawa would be awesome, but it's just not gonna happen. Teams don't trade their franchise player to a team they face 8 times a year. There are many teams out of the division and conference that could offer up a package like this and Boston would prefer to move Thornton there. Also, Boston is not going to have interest in guys like Smoke when there are guys on the FA market. If you want to seriously get Boston thinking of moving Thornton in the same division, you're gonna have to offer the best deal clearly, which would probably be something like Havlat, Volchenkov and a 1st. Still won;t happen though. And Ottawa can't fit his contract in anyways.
Skews his stats?
6 playoff series.... 6 goals. You dress that pig up anyway you like.
I know he's not a shining example of playoff success, but you can't count his rookie season where he only had 3 shots. And if you take his injury into consideration from last year and assume half of his non-production was a result of it then the comparison to Alfredsson is fairly equal. Both average approximately 0.7 points per game.
Alfredsson has a so-called "reasonable" contract because he's not that good. Personally, I think he's overpaid, but I guess there's some intangible there that I'm simply not seeing. At all. I'm not saying he's not a good player, but I don't think he should be making $4.6M.
If I was forced to pay either Alfredsson or Havlat 4.6 million and trade the other or watch him leave for free agency I'd pay Havlat in a second.
So you're saying that if you take out the two series in which Thornton was completely shut out (or a 3rd of his playoff games) because he was a rookie or injured... only then will his playoff stats resemble Alfredsson's?
Well, Alfredsson was a rookie once and was plagued with injuries in the middle of his career. How about I take out the series in which Alfie was shut out?... oh, there aren't any. Hurt, healthy, inexperienced or experienced, all he's done is show up and produce for team whose greatest weakness has been its inability to score in the playoffs.
I don't get your logic here. You've made it very clear that you hate Europeans on the Sens board. But if you think replacing Alfredsson with Thornton will make Ottawa a better playoff team... well, every shred of evidence in existence suggests that you're mistaken.
If he had only 3 shots in all probability he got next to zero minutes so how can you blame him for not scoring? That one should not be counted.
I didn't erase his injured season last year i just said that half of his non-production should not be counted just to be fair. Even if you add back those games i think it puts Thornton at around .63 pts per game and Alfredsson is around .68 pts per game. (so every 20 games alfredsson gets 1 more point)
You've made it very clear that you hate Europeans on the Sens board.
I don't hate Europeans. I was saying that I don't think Alfredsson has the heart and desire to lead a cup winning team and that the easiest place to find a star who does is in Canada. As evidenced by the captains of cup winning teams and the conn smythe winners throughout the history of the NHL.
the easiest place to find a star who does is in Canada. As evidenced by the captains of cup winning teams and the conn smythe winners throughout the history of the NHL.
- yet you know that the history of mass-European influence in the NHL is short.
- Europeans only make up 1/3 of the league.
- There are currently only 6 Euro-captains. (4 of those are on Canadian teams). Koivu joined the Habs during the start of a decline.
Alfredsson and Naslund were key components of their teams improvement from cellar-dweller to Cup contender. Neither teams have won, but both are still relatively young teams.
Jokinen... new captain, young team.
Norstrom... is not Jesus, he can not heal all the injuries the Kings have suffered.
Sundin... his team has been challenging unsuccessfully for a few years now. I'd argue that they usually had a lack of quality depth players.
- yet you know that the history of mass-European influence in the NHL is short.
- Europeans only make up 1/3 of the league.
- There are currently only 6 Euro-captains. (4 of those are on Canadian teams). Koivu joined the Habs during the start of a decline.
Alfredsson and Naslund were key components of their teams improvement from cellar-dweller to Cup contender. Neither teams have won, but both are still relatively young teams.
Jokinen... new captain, young team.
Norstrom... is not Jesus, he can not heal all the injuries the Kings have suffered.
Sundin... his team has been challenging unsuccessfully for a few years now. I'd argue that they usually had a lack of quality depth players.
So they're all just victims of circumstance i guess.
BTW you should argue this in the sens board since nobody here knows why we're arguing this or where the argument originated from. This is more Thornton vs. Alfie. Not really a European vs. Canadian thing.
What kind of a message would send this out to Hossa or Havlat for example? First the Sens give their CAPTAIN a long term contract and soon after that he gets traded because he's a European and a little too old.
Ottawa will get a horrible reputation for the future. Many FA agents will be scared to resign or sign with the team. As a FA you are prepared to commit yourselfs long term to one team, move your family....etc.
What makes you think that Thornton wants to play in Ottawa? He could as well would away from the Capital after his current contract end.
The idea of trading Alfie is just a VERY bad idea!!!
Gives Ottawa the big strong proven scoring center they need while helping Boston fill out its roster with an elite 1st line winger, a 2nd line center, and a grinder.
EDIT: Changed 1st to 2nd rounder.
If you get flamed on the sens board and called an idiot for even offering a trade like that, and u get flamed on the pubic board for even offering a trade like that, its suffice to say you are wrong, and nobody thinks that alfie, the heart and soul of the sens should be traded, or that boston would even trade amongst their division. Swallow your pride. And I'm not even going to get started on your theory of European captains.
