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What happened to Lars Eller?

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02-05-2014, 09:09 AM
  #351
Milhouse40
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Plekanec has been playing with Gionta for YEARS
Desharnais has been playing with Pacioretty or YEARS

Eller.....don't have that chance. He's played with a tons of linesmates.
Some would argue he had Galchenyuk for a long period....AND IT WORKED.
He also had Kostitsyn for long stretch....AND IT WORKED.

Now he's been playing with Bourque for the last 4-5 games....and they started to generate a lot of scoring chances.
It's hard to adapt to many different type of player every game.

A question: Did the Habs did bad with Eller in a more ofensive role?

In the first 20 games, there's only one game Eller didn't receive "first line" ice-time with either the Gally's or Patches and Brière. The Habs went 9-8-1 with Eller mainly used in a more offensive role. (Even included the first game/lost of the year, even if he was on the third line)

9-8-1....PP was one of the best in the league.
PK was one of the best in the league. 5-on-5 ratio was in the top 10.
Our goals/games was in the top 10, same thing for our goals allowd per games.

Not really convincing?
Emelin, Murray, Prust, Pacioretty, Briere we're out with injuries for most of those games
Holland, Blunden, St-Pierre played a couple of those games.

Not really convincing?
Well, 10 games out of those 19 games were against the West.

I really wonder where the Habs would be this year without Eller....cause he took care of business when DD went on vacation in the first 20 games.

I also wonder if the Habs would've made the playoff last year with our top offensive center getting only a 28pts in 48 games.....Good chance Eller took care of bussiness and outproduced him without PP time and his advantages. But we know what we looked like without Eller in the PO....

Now, can someone tell me that this team is better now than it was then?
I don't see any upgrade since DD took back his role....
PP is brutally bad...5-on-5 ration is one of the worst....offensive is going down....
I think we were way better in the first part of the season with Eller in an offensive role

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Old
02-05-2014, 09:11 AM
  #352
Doc McKenna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
He is useless offensively and not very good defensively. He doesn't help his wingers because he overhandles the puck and doesn't give it up at the right times.

You can crap about DD all you want but he is great at giving his wingers the puck at just the right time. A half second early or late and it's not a great scoring chance. That's one of the roles of a good center.
Not good defensively, must be the reason they use him only as a defensive center and on the PK. Interesting and shows how thoughtful your arguments are. No need to debate anymore because you just sunk your own ship.

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02-05-2014, 09:15 AM
  #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Plekanec has been playing with Gionta for YEARS
Desharnais has been playing with Pacioretty or YEARS

Eller.....don't have that chance. He's played with a tons of linesmates.
Some would argue he had Galchenyuk for a long period....AND IT WORKED.
He also had Kostitsyn for long stretch....AND IT WORKED.

Now he's been playing with Bourque for the last 4-5 games....and they started to generate a lot of scoring chances.
It's hard to adapt to many different type of player every game.

A question: Did the Habs did bad with Eller in a more ofensive role?

In the first 20 games, there's only one game Eller didn't receive "first line" ice-time with either the Gally's or Patches and Brière. The Habs went 9-8-1 with Eller mainly used in a more offensive role. (Even included the first game/lost of the year, even if he was on the third line)

9-8-1....PP was one of the best in the league.
PK was one of the best in the league. 5-on-5 ratio was in the top 10.
Our goals/games was in the top 10, same thing for our goals allowd per games.

Not really convincing?
Emelin, Murray, Prust, Pacioretty, Briere we're out with injuries for most of those games
Holland, Blunden, St-Pierre played a couple of those games.

Not really convincing?
Well, 10 games out of those 19 games were against the West.

I really wonder where the Habs would be this year without Eller....cause he took care of business when DD went on vacation in the first 20 games.

I also wonder if the Habs would've made the playoff last year with our top offensive center getting only a 28pts in 48 games.....Good chance Eller took care of bussiness and outproduced him without PP time and his advantages. But we know what we looked like without Eller in the PO....

Now, can someone tell me that this team is better now than it was then?
I don't see any upgrade since DD took back his role....
PP is brutally bad...5-on-5 ration is one of the worst....offensive is going down....
I think we were way better in the first part of the season with Eller in an offensive role
This. And all the new haters who didn't say much before ellers slump will eat a lot of crow when we ship out another john leclair because we had to make room for DD to play more minutes than he should.

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Old
02-05-2014, 10:05 AM
  #354
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Plekanec has been playing with Gionta for YEARS
Desharnais has been playing with Pacioretty or YEARS

Eller.....don't have that chance. He's played with a tons of linesmates.
Some would argue he had Galchenyuk for a long period....AND IT WORKED.
He also had Kostitsyn for long stretch....AND IT WORKED.

Now he's been playing with Bourque for the last 4-5 games....and they started to generate a lot of scoring chances.
It's hard to adapt to many different type of player every game.

A question: Did the Habs did bad with Eller in a more ofensive role?

In the first 20 games, there's only one game Eller didn't receive "first line" ice-time with either the Gally's or Patches and Brière. The Habs went 9-8-1 with Eller mainly used in a more offensive role. (Even included the first game/lost of the year, even if he was on the third line)

9-8-1....PP was one of the best in the league.
PK was one of the best in the league. 5-on-5 ratio was in the top 10.
Our goals/games was in the top 10, same thing for our goals allowd per games.

Not really convincing?
Emelin, Murray, Prust, Pacioretty, Briere we're out with injuries for most of those games
Holland, Blunden, St-Pierre played a couple of those games.

Not really convincing?
Well, 10 games out of those 19 games were against the West.

I really wonder where the Habs would be this year without Eller....cause he took care of business when DD went on vacation in the first 20 games.

I also wonder if the Habs would've made the playoff last year with our top offensive center getting only a 28pts in 48 games.....Good chance Eller took care of bussiness and outproduced him without PP time and his advantages. But we know what we looked like without Eller in the PO....

Now, can someone tell me that this team is better now than it was then?
I don't see any upgrade since DD took back his role....
PP is brutally bad...5-on-5 ration is one of the worst....offensive is going down....
I think we were way better in the first part of the season with Eller in an offensive role
He played with Galchenyuk most of this season, they had to move Galchenyuk to Plekanec's line because he wasn't producing.

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Old
02-05-2014, 10:09 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Doc McKenna View Post
Not good defensively, must be the reason they use him only as a defensive center and on the PK. Interesting and shows how thoughtful your arguments are. No need to debate anymore because you just sunk your own ship.
Usually he is, but -10 in 14 games before last night tells another story.

PS. I don't think +- is the be all and end all but a stat that dramatic isn't an accident.

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Old
02-05-2014, 10:30 AM
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Love Eller but he looked lost last night.

MT continues to ruin him.
His back pass turnover is clouding your judgement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
He is useless offensively and not very good defensively. He doesn't help his wingers because he overhandles the puck and doesn't give it up at the right times.

You can crap about DD all you want but he is great at giving his wingers the puck at just the right time. A half second early or late and it's not a great scoring chance. That's one of the roles of a good center.
Meanwhile DD is only good at one thing : Giving it to Pacioretty or the point.

Hockey is not black or white Monctonscout, theres many shade of grey.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Usually he is, but -10 in 14 games before last night tells another story.

PS. I don't think +- is the be all and end all but a stat that dramatic isn't an accident.
Nice context you have there.

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Old
02-05-2014, 10:30 AM
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akhurite View Post
After last season and his hot start, Eller looked like potentially the big scoring center Montreal needed. But after about 5 game's into this season, he started to become extremely streaky and in his last 14 games he hasn't gotten a point, and is a -10 and has 3 points in his last 27. With all of Montreal's recent struggles, it surely isn't helping Lars and Lars certainly isn't helping out Montreal's recent struggles.
What happened to him? Do you blame him or Therrien?
Excellent third line center, who needs better wingers. End of thread.

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Old
02-05-2014, 10:39 AM
  #358
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I've got a cool observation we can all relate to for Eller!

Remember that time you had that supervisor or manager you worked under who a. Is/was a moron b. Didn't deserve to be in the position but is due to seniority, coddling, etc. c. never gave you a real chance or if he or she did was extremely inconsistent with expectations?

Well if most of you posters have gone through this life altering process I'm sure many of you would start to NOT GIVE A ****

I think Eller is going through his not GIVE A **** stage where he knows no matter how he produces he won't get quality offensive minutes, time, or linemates.

It's human nature except he's getting paid millions so he knows he's just gotta **** and take it. He's content not getting scored on instead of being content scoring...

There's a huge difference and I think many of us can attest to that feeling i.e. being content not getting fired but not giving a **** about any extra effort.

I feel it's good to put things into perspective and reality because quite frankly NONE of us have played pro hockey and most likely none of us will lol

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02-05-2014, 10:46 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by bentheprop View Post
I'm not sure where you got that I supported this, I mearly stated why it's happening. I want Eller to have better linemates. I would like to see the EGG line back together. Unfortunately once you remove Gallagher from the wing Patches and DD might just go back to sucking again and if they're not scoring you really can't rely on them in a checking roll.
My apologies, many posters have claimed that it's the right thing to do. At the end of the day removing some of DD's offensive opportunties doesn't mean an increase in defensive ones, it just means less total ice time for him.

We were playing above .500 hockey when DD was doing nothing, so even is he goes back to sucking again we still have a decent chance to be as good/better than we are right now. And really if the Coach/GM think that DD will go back to sucking as soon as his line is broken up then they need to trade him ASAP.

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Old
02-05-2014, 10:49 AM
  #360
Milhouse40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
He played with Galchenyuk most of this season, they had to move Galchenyuk to Plekanec's line because he wasn't producing.
Yeah right....AND IT WORKED...for the time they've been put together.

Of course, the day Therrien decided to drop Galchenyuk at 10-12 minutes with no PP time, his production drop ....just like Eller's who receive the same treatment.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Usually he is, but -10 in 14 games before last night tells another story.

PS. I don't think +- is the be all and end all but a stat that dramatic isn't an accident.
Just like having 1pts in 19 games?
This was just an incident but this isn't....

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Old
02-05-2014, 10:59 AM
  #361
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
His back pass turnover is clouding your judgement.


Meanwhile DD is only good at one thing : Giving it to Pacioretty or the point.

Hockey is not black or white Monctonscout, theres many shade of grey.

Nice context you have there.
I did give context, +- isn't the be all and end all, but being -10 in a single month is a huge red flag.

Desharnais gets a lot of undeserved flak on here cause people hate small players. Since they reunited the current line he has 9 goals in 35 games, yet he gets crap for his shot or not shooting.

The black is people spending hours on the internet trying to discredit Desharnais because he is 5'7" and the white is bending over backwards making excuses for Eller because he is 6'2".

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Old
02-05-2014, 11:02 AM
  #362
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Eller has only one person to blame for what is happening to him: Himself. He changed his way of playing this year compared to last year, where he was a huge threat on the forecheck and a beast in one on one battles.

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Old
02-05-2014, 11:03 AM
  #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I did give context, +- isn't the be all and end all, but being -10 in a single month is a huge red flag.

Desharnais gets a lot of undeserved flak on here cause people hate small players. Since they reunited the current line he has 9 goals in 35 games, yet he gets crap for his shot or not shooting.

The black is people spending hours on the internet trying to discredit Desharnais because he is 5'7" and the white is bending over backwards making excuses for Eller because he is 6'2".
Most people are mad at Desharnais cause his resurgence has come at the expense of the rest of the team's offense. Can you argue that Desharnais's line hasn't been given the most opportunities to produce offensively in comparison to Plekanec and Eller's line?

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02-05-2014, 11:22 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse View Post
He looks horrible on the wing.

"etc" means "and others of the same type", so listing a bunch of defensive traits and throwing in "etc" doesn't imply you're talking about offensive skill sets all of a sudden.

Like what?

I think you "like" Eller as long as he and Habs fans should know his place, which apparently comprises being "versatile" enough to shift to being a 3rd line grinding winger with no PP time.

Which apparently is the role we have reserved for Galchenyuk, as well!
He's not meant for the wing but he can play it. He doesn't have much practice playing the position. I don't really want him there but in some unforeseen scenario I think he can learn it fairly easily. I'd rather him center though.

Puck handling was a defensive trait?

Either way we've been through this and I answered you in detail already. I said I like his ability to make plays in close. I like his ability to score on shootouts. I like his ability to protect the puck. I like his shot too but I think he doesn't have a quick release.

I like white if he's not our 1st line center. I like gorges but not on the PP. Etc...

I can like someone and have an opinion of where I'd place him.

You'll have to find where I said Eller should have no PP time. On several occasions I've argued our winger depth sucks, that Gallagher on ellers line should be tried and while Eller plays a defensive role his pp time should still be above zero.

WE, seems like you're back to your old ways. Pretending I said things I didn't in order to argue the person rather than have a discussion. It's a waste of energy. Difference of opinion happens.

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Old
02-05-2014, 11:28 AM
  #365
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Yeah right....AND IT WORKED...for the time they've been put together.

Of course, the day Therrien decided to drop Galchenyuk at 10-12 minutes with no PP time, his production drop ....just like Eller's who receive the same treatment.





Just like having 1pts in 19 games?
This was just an incident but this isn't....
Exactly, Galchenyuk's production increased right away when put with Plekanec, even against tougher competition.

Galchenyuk is averaging almost 15 minutes a game which is 3rd line, he has 7 PP points.

When Desharnais went though his tough start he was crucified on here, even when his wingers were Moen and White and when he was in the press box. Eller's ice time and presence in the lineup is still there and people on here bend over backwards to make excuses for his play. Most coaches would have sat him in the press box a few games.

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02-05-2014, 11:34 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by HabsFan76 View Post
Most people are mad at Desharnais cause his resurgence has come at the expense of the rest of the team's offense. Can you argue that Desharnais's line hasn't been given the most opportunities to produce offensively in comparison to Plekanec and Eller's line?
How is it Desharnais' fault that Eller or Bourque are dragging their ass or Briere is a poor fit(vs Ryder last year) or that Gionta hurt both arms the last 2 years and it's affected his scoring? That Prust plays with a lot less energy?

Yes Desharnais' line is getting more opportunities, but they have deserved it. It's a no brainer for a coach, you need a goal and you get a PP you play the guys that are producing. It's not a "Michel Therrien thing" it's a common sense thing. When Desharnais and Pacioretty struggled, others got those opportunities.

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02-05-2014, 11:35 AM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Exactly, Galchenyuk's production increased right away when put with Plekanec, even against tougher competition.

Galchenyuk is averaging almost 15 minutes a game which is 3rd line, he has 7 PP points.

When Desharnais went though his tough start he was crucified on here, even when his wingers were Moen and White and when he was in the press box. Eller's ice time and presence in the lineup is still there and people on here bend over backwards to make excuses for his play. Most coaches would have sat him in the press box a few games.
Eller should not be benched. I agree people excuse his play because they expect something that isn't there but I still want Eller in the lineup, no question.

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02-05-2014, 11:51 AM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
How is it Desharnais' fault that Eller or Bourque are dragging their ass or Briere is a poor fit(vs Ryder last year) or that Gionta hurt both arms the last 2 years and it's affected his scoring? That Prust plays with a lot less energy?

Yes Desharnais' line is getting more opportunities, but they have deserved it. It's a no brainer for a coach, you need a goal and you get a PP you play the guys that are producing. It's not a "Michel Therrien thing" it's a common sense thing. When Desharnais and Pacioretty struggled, others got those opportunities.
Habs PP is struggling and has slid to 15th. DD line still gets most of the minutes. Subban and Markov have been figured out and none of the forwards have any creativity down low.

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02-05-2014, 12:03 PM
  #369
Milhouse40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Exactly, Galchenyuk's production increased right away when put with Plekanec, even against tougher competition.

Galchenyuk is averaging almost 15 minutes a game which is 3rd line, he has 7 PP points.

When Desharnais went though his tough start he was crucified on here, even when his wingers were Moen and White and when he was in the press box. Eller's ice time and presence in the lineup is still there and people on here bend over backwards to make excuses for his play. Most coaches would have sat him in the press box a few games.
Are you for real?

Here's the line-up of Galchenyuk:
http://www.cs.unb.ca/~mwf/habs/forw_27AG.html

Look it up, Plekanec played with Galchenyuk 7 games lately (since you think this is since Eller started slow down that Galchy went up with Plek and and started producing again)

Galchenyuk had 2 points in those 7 games.....and he's a -2.

Whether you like or not, Galchenyuk AND Gallagher produced less with Desharnais and Plekanec.

Did DD hits like Eller?
Did DD blocked shots like Eller?
Did DD is a positive presence on the PK?
Did DD win as many board battle?
Did DD got any physical or defensive presence in his zone?

Nope....DD only bring some offensive numbers...but Eller brought all other kinds of numbers other than points which are usefull on the bottom 6. As for benching....

Eller had a very tough times ON THE WING.....with Thomas, Leblanc, Moen, Bourque, Briere, Prust as wingers. Very true. Might have been benched at that point.....but The last 4 games...not one game in the minus, created a lot of scoring chances with Bourque, solid on the PK , solid at 5-on-5, solid in the Faceoff....why should he be benched?

Even if you think Eller and DD can only be compare base of their points production, this is not the case cause Eller brought tons of other skills that DD don't.

And even if you wanna compare points:
DD didn't scores more goals than Eller
DD is only having 8 assists more than Eller.

And the funny thing is that Desharnais got 8 assist more ON THE POWERPLAY than Eller.
I guess those 55 minutes DD played more than Eller on the Powerplay could explained a part.....and the best sniper Pacioretty could explain another part.....

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02-05-2014, 12:41 PM
  #370
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2 summers ago, Eller bulked up. Last summer, I imagine he worked a ton on his faceoffs since he's really shown an improvement there this year.

This summer i hope he works on his ****ing release. Looks like he's curling it nhl 14 style every time he wants to shoot.

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02-05-2014, 12:47 PM
  #371
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Certainly, Eller deserves some blame for his long slump. Though, to be fair, Eller played far better in his 5 last games, setting up guys that can't sadly finish to save their life.

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02-05-2014, 12:47 PM
  #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
His back pass turnover is clouding your judgement.


Meanwhile DD is only good at one thing : Giving it to Pacioretty or the point.

Hockey is not black or white Monctonscout, theres many shade of grey.

Nice context you have there.
He's not the same player he was... and how can he be? He's getting crap linemates and tough ice. We are ruining this guy when we should be nurturing his talents.

The Montreal Canadiens have lost their way. Happened a long time ago and I kept hoping that we'd find the leader to help us. Gainey looked like the solution and then his daughter passed and he went all squirly, Gauthier was an embarrassment... so next comes MB. Once again, we sit here hoping for leadership. And this time around we have some elite talent to finally work with.

And what do we do? We get a coach who throws players under the bus all the time, plays favourites with inferior players, doesn't know what the **** he's doing... and we stick with him. Sick and tired of the same mistakes over and over. And yet we still see folks defend mgmt over and over...

Lars Eller should be logging ice with Max. Or the EGG line shouldn't have been split up. But we (for some inexplicable reason) decide that we want to ruin him.... pisses me off.

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02-05-2014, 12:51 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
He's not the same player he was... and how can he be? He's getting crap linemates and tough ice. We are ruining this guy when we should be nurturing his talents.

Lars Eller should be logging ice with Max. Or the EGG line shouldn't have been split up. But we (for some inexplicable reason) decide that we want to ruin him.... pisses me off.
Buddy, he's not a pokemon, he's an elite athlete and is paid millions to compete and contribute to wins. It's a serious problem if he can't pull his weight even with "tough ice" and brings into question his future with the club.

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02-05-2014, 12:54 PM
  #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post

The black is people spending hours on the internet trying to discredit Desharnais because he is 5'7" and the white is bending over backwards making excuses for Eller because he is 6'2".
Can't possibly make sense. Your 'black' is 7' shorter than your 'white'...


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Old
02-05-2014, 01:34 PM
  #375
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Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
Buddy, he's not a pokemon, he's an elite athlete and is paid millions to compete and contribute to wins. It's a serious problem if he can't pull his weight even with "tough ice" and brings into question his future with the club.
How is he not pulling his weight? He plays on the 3rd line, and is playing like a 3rd liner.

I really don't understand what some people expect with difficult usage. He could play better, but if he was he probably won't be on the 3rd line to begin with.

It always amazes me how guys like Prust or Weise will get endlessly praised for doing essentially the same thing Eller is doing, while the latter will get killed because of some assumption that he can do more without getting the opportunity to do so. You guys know Eller makes less money than Prust, right?

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