HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

What happened to Lars Eller?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-10-2014, 04:09 PM
  #751
CHwest
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
There is a lot of things I don't get in this thread.

I totally get that some may prefer Eller than Desharnais. I totally get that some may pretend that Eller would produce more with better linemates.

But I don't get that hate toward DD. He's producing, right? I'll go further: I think he plays the greatest hockey of his career right now. More than just producing, he cuts plays in the o-zone, he cuts plays in the neutral zone, and he puts ok pressure on the backcheck. He's not great in his own zone and he will probably never be, but he's way better than he used to be; he's far from a liability. And he's slowly becoming an above average centerman on the faceoffs. What's not to like? I too will prefer to have a big talented clear-cut first line centerman, but anyway, DD is at least playing like a very nice second offensive line centerman.

And I don't get those systemic comparison DD-Eller when we discuss about Eller. Isn't it the goal to have both producing? Of course Eller would produce more with better linemates. Who wouldn't? Even White would produce more with Max Pac and Gallagher! But at least Eller can still be effective and usefull with lesser linemates because he can play physical, can control the puck, and has a nice two-way game. That would be tougher to achieve for DD who doesn't have the same skillset. So for a coach, I think it is a no brainer to use them the way they are right now.

And I don't get that systemic belief that Eller doesn't produce because of poor linemates. Of course it doesn't help, of course he would produce more, but it is far from entierly justifying his abysmal production right now. Come on! No goal on deflection? No goal on rebounds? No garbage goal in the crease? No gift from any goalie on a slapshot or a shot of any kind? No lucky bounds? No goal with the help of a defensman skate or something? The truth is right now, because of whatever reason (confidence? bad vision? overthinking?), Eller is simply never at the right place, and seems to rarely chose the right play to do.

I'm absolutly not stating that Eller is bad, or that he's not as good as DD (the comparison is irrelevent for team success, imo). But I do think that RIGHT NOW, he's not playing good hockey and that he's the main reason for his own poor production.
Eller is the type of guy that the bigger the game the more you notice him. DD is the mirror opposite, in a really tight hard fought game he is a nonfactor, he is what he is, a slight fringe NHL player.

CHwest is offline  
Old
02-10-2014, 05:37 PM
  #752
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,576
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHwest View Post
Eller is the type of guy that the bigger the game the more you notice him. DD is the mirror opposite, in a really tight hard fought game he is a nonfactor, he is what he is, a slight fringe NHL player.
I'm not sure you can prove this. I don't think either has done anything spectacular.

LyricalLyricist is offline  
Old
02-10-2014, 05:44 PM
  #753
SouthernHab
Go Habs Go!
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,445
vCash: 500
Great post LePoche.

Hockey is not a zero sum game. Unlimited scoring is allowed in the NHL from every player.

SouthernHab is offline  
Old
02-10-2014, 05:50 PM
  #754
ECWHSWI
bought a MB jersey
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,099
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Great post LePoche.

Hockey is not a zero sum game. Unlimited scoring is allowed in the NHL from every player.
tell that to MT, doesnt seem to care most of our forwards production dropped...

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
02-10-2014, 05:52 PM
  #755
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,156
vCash: 500
He is what he is: a third line centre who could play second line if really needed.

He is certainly the most overated Habs player on this board, for sure.


But I hope MT will play him with the two Gally's again if Moen and Bournival are still out in two weeks. Prust could play on the fourth and Bourque with DD and MaxPac.

habitue* is offline  
Old
02-10-2014, 06:06 PM
  #756
SouthernHab
Go Habs Go!
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
tell that to MT, doesnt seem to care most of our forwards production dropped...
I don't disagree regarding this.

SouthernHab is offline  
Old
02-10-2014, 06:24 PM
  #757
ECWHSWI
bought a MB jersey
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,099
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habstraction View Post
He is what he is: a third line centre who could play second line if really needed.

He is certainly the most overated Habs player on this board, for sure.


But I hope MT will play him with the two Gally's again if Moen and Bournival are still out in two weeks. Prust could play on the fourth and Bourque with DD and MaxPac.
why bother, he's only a 3rd liner afterall...

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
02-10-2014, 08:25 PM
  #758
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
why bother, he's only a 3rd liner afterall...
Balancing lines and having three productive lines can help down the strech. I don't think that Galchenyuk is a top two liner, yet. But it will be sooner rather than later.

habitue* is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 09:01 AM
  #759
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,846
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habstraction View Post
He is what he is: a third line centre who could play second line if really needed.

He is certainly the most overated Habs player on this board, for sure.
I could say the exact same thing for Desharnais.

Sorinth is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 09:02 AM
  #760
No Team Needed
Registered User
 
No Team Needed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 6,734
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I could say the exact same thing for Desharnais.
DD is judged on results.

Eller is judged on potential.

No Team Needed is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 10:48 AM
  #761
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,576
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I could say the exact same thing for Desharnais.
How can DD be overrated?

Seriously Sorinth, how? lol

Guy is hated and called an ahl player.

LyricalLyricist is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 10:57 AM
  #762
ThePriceIsRight44
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 164
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
How can DD be overrated?

Seriously Sorinth, how? lol

Guy is hated and called an ahl player.
Sorry to say but he is an AHL'er for most teams in the NHL. But Montreal just cant allow for a Quebecer with a nice story to not get his time to shine. This isn't the 70's anymore. We cant build a team made up of 80% French guys. Specially when we go after every French guy under 5'8. DD's story is a good 1 and I'm happy for the individual but he's also very much in the way of our younger talent on this team.

The only guy on the habs with 0 trade value and one of the bigger contracts is really the one that needs to go for this team to make a push in 3-4 years.

ThePriceIsRight44 is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 11:01 AM
  #763
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,846
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
DD is judged on results.

Eller is judged on potential.
When you take a closer look Eller has very similar results. Look at how much they produce at even strength per 60 minutes, they are very similar. Over the last 3 season's DD produces an average of 2pts more at even strength than Eller has given the same minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
How can DD be overrated?

Seriously Sorinth, how? lol

Guy is hated and called an ahl player.
He's also gets compared to MSL. How many posts have their been about if we take out his slump he's on pace for X points and that compares favourably to other top centers.

He is what he is: a third line centre who could play second line if really needed.

Sorinth is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 11:05 AM
  #764
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,576
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePriceIsRight44 View Post
Sorry to say but he is an AHL'er for most teams in the NHL. But Montreal just cant allow for a Quebecer with a nice story to not get his time to shine. This isn't the 70's anymore. We cant build a team made up of 80% French guys. Specially when we go after every French guy under 5'8. DD's story is a good 1 and I'm happy for the individual but he's also very much in the way of our younger talent on this team.

The only guy on the habs with 0 trade value and one of the bigger contracts is really the one that needs to go for this team to make a push in 3-4 years.
Ahlers don't go on 31 points in 37 game streaks.

LyricalLyricist is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 11:08 AM
  #765
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,576
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
When you take a closer look Eller has very similar results. Look at how much they produce at even strength per 60 minutes, they are very similar. Over the last 3 season's DD produces an average of 2pts more at even strength than Eller has given the same minutes.



He's also gets compared to MSL. How many posts have their been about if we take out his slump he's on pace for X points and that compares favourably to other top centers.

He is what he is: a third line centre who could play second line if really needed.
I agree with you but how many call him MSL vs how many call him AHLer?

Pretty one sided.

Also the points in x games happens for everyone, including Eller.

Other than that yah he's not an ideal player for 1st offensive line role but please don't say he's overrated, that's mind boggling to me.

LyricalLyricist is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 11:19 AM
  #766
ThePriceIsRight44
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 164
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Ahlers don't go on 31 points in 37 game streaks.
In that stretch he's had 11 goals. 2 of which were from a good play on his part the other 9 were deflections off of him. Out of his 20 assists, at least half were 2nd assists where he pretty much had no presence in the play leading to a goal. 5 of those assists or so were gems on patches stick for an easy goal. I highly doubt Plecky Chucky and Eller couldn't produce 32 points in 56 games with the ideal minutes DD gets. Hence DD is an AHL level player even on the habs. We just cant pass up on a feel good story of a guy from Quebec who should have never made it instead of building a good hockey team.

ThePriceIsRight44 is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 11:20 AM
  #767
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I agree with you but how many call him MSL vs how many call him AHLer?

Pretty one sided.

Also the points in x games happens for everyone, including Eller.

Other than that yah he's not an ideal player for 1st offensive line role but please don't say he's overrated, that's mind boggling to me.
The pro Eller have no more argument to justify their player's play and lack of production.

habitue* is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 11:20 AM
  #768
JAVO16
Registered User
 
JAVO16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,271
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Ahlers don't go on 31 points in 37 game streaks.
Man, I love how that one guy came to prove your point the moment you made a case for it.


JAVO16 is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 11:23 AM
  #769
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,846
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I agree with you but how many call him MSL vs how many call him AHLer?

Pretty one sided.

Also the points in x games happens for everyone, including Eller.

Other than that yah he's not an ideal player for 1st offensive line role but please don't say he's overrated, that's mind boggling to me.
I pretty much ignore both extremes since the posters are clueless or exaggerating.

Desharnais is certainly more divisive, most either love him or hate him. A lot of DD's fans view him as a legitimate 1st line center, Eller is viewed by his fans as a 2nd line center. But the opposite is also true, most DD detractors view him as barely NHL capable whereas Eller's detractors still tend to view him as a solid 3rd line centerman.

In any case my original comment was more about the 1st sentence of Habstraction's post.

Sorinth is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 11:30 AM
  #770
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I pretty much ignore both extremes since the posters are clueless or exaggerating.

Desharnais is certainly more divisive, most either love him or hate him. A lot of DD's fans view him as a legitimate 1st line center, Eller is viewed by his fans as a 2nd line center. But the opposite is also true, most DD detractors view him as barely NHL capable whereas Eller's detractors still tend to view him as a solid 3rd line centerman.

In any case my original comment was more about the 1st sentence of Habstraction's post.
No one is seeing DD as a legitimate #1 centre. No one ! But the Habs don't have a #1 centre since the best days of Koivu.

Every single coaches in the last decade are just trying to put lines together that might give them some kind lf production.

For me, Plekanec should be our actual #1 if the coaches would cut on his pk time and give him the pp.


For me , both DD and Eller have shortcomings and strengths, and are used as such.

habitue* is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 11:37 AM
  #771
habtastic
Registered User
 
habtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montrealer in Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 10,174
vCash: 500
These things always devolve into a this player vs. that player debate. (I still haven't recovered from the horror of the Price/Halak threads.)

DD is playing well. He deserves his spot.

Eller is (save a few bad game) a very good player and for the moment playing a role. I think he will greatly benefit from Chucky's return and the entire team will since we'll have 4 solid lines. If DD starts slumping again, then either you break DD and Patches (although DD did have his scoring extravaganza w/o his pal) or you distribute ice time equally. I really like Eller and what he brings to our team and even though it seems like an unfair comparison, I don't think Eller has reached his full potential. Guy could be a legit gamebreaker like Pacioretty IMO. Just needs the right situation and enough ice time. I can't imagine that going forward, DD is going to be resigned. I just cannot fathom it. Like I said, he's playing great now, but this is not a long term solution, while Eller is.

Oh boi, I just got roped into this debate...(I really mean to say that they're both fine, we should just give Eller a break and see what happens -- I'm sure very good things.)

habtastic is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 12:44 PM
  #772
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,846
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habstraction View Post
No one is seeing DD as a legitimate #1 centre. No one ! But the Habs don't have a #1 centre since the best days of Koivu.

Every single coaches in the last decade are just trying to put lines together that might give them some kind lf production.

For me, Plekanec should be our actual #1 if the coaches would cut on his pk time and give him the pp.


For me , both DD and Eller have shortcomings and strengths, and are used as such.
Just the other day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone Rock View Post
He's been producing at a good first line level.
There are lots of posts about DD producing like a 1st liner. In the last PGT DD gets compared to Getzlaf.

Sorinth is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 01:35 PM
  #773
JAVO16
Registered User
 
JAVO16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,271
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
There are lots of posts about DD producing like a 1st liner. In the last PGT DD gets compared to Getzlaf.
Producing like a 1st liner and being a 1st liner are not the same thing (though quite close). DD's been producing at a ~70 points pace since the end of his slump. It doesn't erase the slump, but that's the production of a 1st line player in that period since the slump. Now there are caveats to his production, but I don't think they are as big as some people claim them to be or as related to DD's opportunity to produce as they are claimed to be.

The problem with these discussions on a forum is that we get stuck arguing about the extreme opinions of a few people.

JAVO16 is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 01:38 PM
  #774
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 34,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHwest View Post
Eller is the type of guy that the bigger the game the more you notice him. DD is the mirror opposite, in a really tight hard fought game he is a nonfactor, he is what he is, a slight fringe NHL player.
That's a ridiculous comment, Eller's play has gotten worse and worse as the season has gone on...and the games get more and more important...while Desharnais has gotten better and better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePriceIsRight44 View Post
Sorry to say but he is an AHL'er for most teams in the NHL. But Montreal just cant allow for a Quebecer with a nice story to not get his time to shine. This isn't the 70's anymore. We cant build a team made up of 80% French guys. Specially when we go after every French guy under 5'8. DD's story is a good 1 and I'm happy for the individual but he's also very much in the way of our younger talent on this team.

The only guy on the habs with 0 trade value and one of the bigger contracts is really the one that needs to go for this team to make a push in 3-4 years.
It's good to know teams have guys in the AHL they can call up and who can put up points at a 0.86 PPGM pace over a half season.

Wow! ...just wow!



Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Ahlers don't go on 31 points in 37 game streaks.
Apparently they do in the HF Boards dream world...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePriceIsRight44 View Post
In that stretch he's had 11 goals. 2 of which were from a good play on his part the other 9 were deflections off of him. Out of his 20 assists, at least half were 2nd assists where he pretty much had no presence in the play leading to a goal. 5 of those assists or so were gems on patches stick for an easy goal. I highly doubt Plecky Chucky and Eller couldn't produce 32 points in 56 games with the ideal minutes DD gets. Hence DD is an AHL level player even on the habs. We just cant pass up on a feel good story of a guy from Quebec who should have never made it instead of building a good hockey team.

Eller had what, 1 point in 6 weeks yet he can magically turn into a big point producer with more ice time...brilliant! So points are so easy to come by in the NHL yet Eller could only manage ONE over a 6 week period...your logic is out to lunch. You give all the credit to Pacioretty yet usually he is the one getting some sweet feeds for tap ins a lot of times. Desharnais had 2 goals playing with Bourque last game, the same guy Eller could do nothing with.


I keep hearing how Desharnais' line gets easy minutes yet most games I see them out against the opposition's top defensive pairs and checking lines. I don't recall teams sticking their checking lines on Eller yet he is still not scoring. Sure Pacioretty and Desharnais get more offensive starts and PP time...as well they should! Any smart coach will have his offensive players in offensive situations as much as possible...yet this concept evades a lot of the brilliant posters here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habstraction View Post
No one is seeing DD as a legitimate #1 centre. No one ! But the Habs don't have a #1 centre since the best days of Koivu.

Every single coaches in the last decade are just trying to put lines together that might give them some kind lf production.

For me, Plekanec should be our actual #1 if the coaches would cut on his pk time and give him the pp.


For me , both DD and Eller have shortcomings and strengths, and are used as such.
Plekanec is a legit #1 NHL center, however you can't have him playing against top lines, top PK AND also playing top PP and offensive zone starts, he'd be on the ice 35-38 minutes a game and would be dead tired within 2 weeks. Logic dictates that the Desharnais line is used more on offensive situations and Plekanec more defensive. It hurts Plekanec's offensive numbers, but makes him more valuable to the team. Eller's line last year also got a lot of offensive situations but this year the offense had dried up and lately White's line has outplayed them.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 01:51 PM
  #775
Habit11
Registered User
 
Habit11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,019
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
That's a ridiculous comment, Eller's play has gotten worse and worse as the season has gone on...and the games get more and more important...while Desharnais has gotten better and better.

It's good to know teams have guys in the AHL they can call up and who can put up points at a 0.86 PPGM pace over a half season.

Wow! ...just wow!





Apparently they do in the HF Boards dream world...




Eller had what, 1 point in 6 weeks yet he can magically turn into a big point producer with more ice time...brilliant! So points are so easy to come by in the NHL yet Eller could only manage ONE over a 6 week period...your logic is out to lunch. You give all the credit to Pacioretty yet usually he is the one getting some sweet feeds for tap ins a lot of times. Desharnais had 2 goals playing with Bourque last game, the same guy Eller could do nothing with.
Only Desharnais is capable of such a feat.

Habit11 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:49 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2017 All Rights Reserved.