HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

What happened to Lars Eller?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-11-2014, 02:10 PM
  #776
LaP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Quebec City, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,789
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habstraction View Post
The pro Eller have no more argument to justify their player's play and lack of production.

There's no argument. Eller is having a bad season overall. The difference between DD and Eller to me is Eller at worst when he is not producing can make en effective 3rd line player. Eller is bigger. He is doing good on the PK. He is the forward with the most hits. He is the forward with the most blocked shots. His takeaway versus giveaway ratio is +8. He wins 52.2% of his faceoffs.

DD on the other hand when he is not producing offensively is close to a total waste of time. He doesn't hit. He loses most of his one on one battle. He can't really play on the PK. He wins less than 50% of his faceoffs.

DD will need to prove in the upcoming 2 years that he can produce in the playoffs or Galchenyuk will eventually take his place. And i personally take Plakenec et Eller as 2nd and 3rd line center before DD.

Last year in playoffs DD was really awful.

LaP is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 02:17 PM
  #777
No Team Needed
Registered User
 
No Team Needed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 3,782
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Eller had what, 1 point in 6 weeks yet he can magically turn into a big point producer with more ice time...brilliant!
Fun with player minutes:

Even Strength average
Eller: 14:00
Desharnais: 14:12

Power Play Minutes
Eller: 76:31
Desharnais: 129:31

Average Shifts per game
Eller: 22.6
Desharnais: 21.3

So Eller doesn't average much less than Desharnais at even strength this season and their PP minutes are the difference between a PP1 and a PP2 player. And average shifts? Eller actually averages more.

But Eller is gonna become this big point producer with just more minutes y'all!

No Team Needed is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 02:22 PM
  #778
Cyclones Rock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePriceIsRight44 View Post
In that stretch he's had 11 goals. 2 of which were from a good play on his part the other 9 were deflections off of him. Out of his 20 assists, at least half were 2nd assists where he pretty much had no presence in the play leading to a goal. 5 of those assists or so were gems on patches stick for an easy goal. I highly doubt Plecky Chucky and Eller couldn't produce 32 points in 56 games with the ideal minutes DD gets. Hence DD is an AHL level player even on the habs. We just cant pass up on a feel good story of a guy from Quebec who should have never made it instead of building a good hockey team.
One of the dumbest posts ever on DD. Factually farcical as well.

Congratulations. It takes quite a post to hit near the bottom of the barrel when it comes to absurd DD bashing.

Cyclones Rock is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 02:30 PM
  #779
juve
Registered User
 
juve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
One of the dumbest posts ever on DD. Factually farcical as well.

Congratulations. It takes quite a post to hit near the bottom of the barrel when it comes to absurd DD bashing.
The truth hurts? I fully agree with that dude.

juve is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 02:37 PM
  #780
ekof232
Registered User
 
ekof232's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 336
vCash: 1195
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Fun with player minutes:

Even Strength average
Eller: 14:00
Desharnais: 14:12

Power Play Minutes
Eller: 76:31
Desharnais: 129:31

Average Shifts per game
Eller: 22.6
Desharnais: 21.3

So Eller doesn't average much less than Desharnais at even strength this season and their PP minutes are the difference between a PP1 and a PP2 player. And average shifts? Eller actually averages more.

But Eller is gonna become this big point producer with just more minutes y'all!
Eller simply hasn't produced offensively this season compared to expectations and hasn't been particularly good (except at the beginning of the season); that's a fact. That said, I believe that your comparison of ice time given to each player as a way to compare their offensive production is, well, rather lacking.

You ignore many stats (QOC, offensive zone start percentage, etc.) and the role given to each player for the team (one puts up points and displays offense while the other is expected to play a good defensive game and carry the puck from the neutral zone into the offensive zone) in your analysis.

Inversely, I also do not believe we can infer a dramatic increase in production from Eller with increased (and better quality) minutes and offensive zone starts. We simply haven't seen Eller get that opportunity of ''sheltered'' minutes (that DD has been given since the second half of his rookie season) and so we cannot know for sure.

But, as it stands, we can easily reason that with the advantages DD has had this season, Eller would have somewhat better stats.

ekof232 is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 02:38 PM
  #781
Cyclones Rock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by juve View Post
The truth hurts? I fully agree with that dude.
Really? All but 2 of his goals were garbage?

Then I guess you're as ridiculous as he is. So be it.

Cyclones Rock is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 02:58 PM
  #782
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 33,122
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by juve View Post
The truth hurts? I fully agree with that dude.
Some posters on here wouldn't know the truth if it flew over you and crapped on your head.

Half the posters on here are about their agenda and common sense takes the week off.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 03:01 PM
  #783
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 8,893
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Some posters on here wouldn't know the truth if it flew over you and crapped on your head.

Half the posters on here are about their agenda and common sense takes the week off.
Your agenda is to always defend management.

DAChampion is online now  
Old
02-11-2014, 03:26 PM
  #784
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 23,173
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaP View Post
There's no argument. Eller is having a bad season overall. The difference between DD and Eller to me is Eller at worst when he is not producing can make en effective 3rd line player. Eller is bigger. He is doing good on the PK. He is the forward with the most hits. He is the forward with the most blocked shots. His takeaway versus giveaway ratio is +8. He wins 52.2% of his faceoffs.

DD on the other hand when he is not producing offensively is close to a total waste of time. He doesn't hit. He loses most of his one on one battle. He can't really play on the PK. He wins less than 50% of his faceoffs.

DD will need to prove in the upcoming 2 years that he can produce in the playoffs or Galchenyuk will eventually take his place. And i personally take Plakenec et Eller as 2nd and 3rd line center before DD.

Last year in playoffs DD was really awful.
DD will lose his spot to AG regardless. That's not a slight against DD.

MXD is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 03:28 PM
  #785
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaP View Post
There's no argument. Eller is having a bad season overall. The difference between DD and Eller to me is Eller at worst when he is not producing can make en effective 3rd line player. Eller is bigger. He is doing good on the PK. He is the forward with the most hits. He is the forward with the most blocked shots. His takeaway versus giveaway ratio is +8. He wins 52.2% of his faceoffs.

DD on the other hand when he is not producing offensively is close to a total waste of time. He doesn't hit. He loses most of his one on one battle. He can't really play on the PK. He wins less than 50% of his faceoffs.

DD will need to prove in the upcoming 2 years that he can produce in the playoffs or Galchenyuk will eventually take his place. And i personally take Plakenec et Eller as 2nd and 3rd line center before DD.

Last year in playoffs DD was really awful.
Who was not awful ? Was it not his very first Playoffs, too ? Plekky was playing like a little girl once again.

habitue* is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 03:29 PM
  #786
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
DD will lose his spot to AG regardless. That's not a slight against DD.
And Eller will play on the 3rd line where he belongs.

habitue* is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 03:35 PM
  #787
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 23,173
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habstraction View Post
Who was not awful ? Was it not his very first Playoffs, too ? Plekky was playing like a little girl once again.
No, it was. First playoffs at C, however. Played well against Boston, but not much production to back it. Played injured as well.

I hate the girl myth, but TP didn't play very well against Ottawa. Its fine to play a shutdown role, but failing to shutdown Turris is failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habstraction View Post
And Eller will play on the 3rd line where he belongs.
Probably.

MXD is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 04:01 PM
  #788
No Team Needed
Registered User
 
No Team Needed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 3,782
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekof232 View Post
But, as it stands, we can easily reason that with the advantages DD has had this season, Eller would have somewhat better stats.
No you can't.

Because he hasn't produced.

The clearest of clear facts is that if Lars Eller produced when on a line with Plekanec and Gionta, then he'd be making a statement that he just needs better wingers. But he didn't.

DD got scratched. DD hardly plays more even strength minutes than Eller. Are you really trying to say on the road that teams are sending weaker lines against DD/Patches than Eller?

And really, it'd be nice if someone would go back and see that the EGG line was together between October 17 and November 2. In that time, Lars Eller had two points. That's it. Two points. It was November 5 that Therrien started Pacioretty on the Galchenyuk/Gallagher line instead. From the 10th on the line would get put together and broken up and then Therrien removed Gallagher but still had Galchenyuk with Eller. It wasn't until around the game with the Kings in December that Galchenyuk got moved onto Plekanec's line permanently.

Between November 27 and December 4 Eller had four points in five games but that was WITHOUT BRENDAN GALLAGHER. So the line was already broken up. He lost Galchenyuk after that because it was clear Galchenyuk could score without him and deserved to be with Plek/Gio.

Stop making excuses. He's an inconsistent player. Period.

No Team Needed is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 04:17 PM
  #789
ECWHSWI
Spartan mic'
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,282
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habstraction View Post
Who was not awful ? Was it not his very first Playoffs, too ? Plekky was playing like a little girl once again.
clear you love your little D... but crapping on Plekanec to make him look good ?

that must be a new one...


Yeah, we get it, D is better than Plekanec too now...

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 04:27 PM
  #790
Winter Eclipse
Registered User
 
Winter Eclipse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,393
vCash: 500


DD fanboys really having fun bashing Eller I see!!

Winter Eclipse is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 04:35 PM
  #791
Winter Eclipse
Registered User
 
Winter Eclipse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,393
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I agree with you but how many call him MSL vs how many call him AHLer?

Pretty one sided.
You can read this thread, see the relentless bashing of Eller and abject fawning over Desharnais, and still classify Desharnais as a poor victim and Eller as a Golden Child?


Winter Eclipse is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 04:48 PM
  #792
Winter Eclipse
Registered User
 
Winter Eclipse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,393
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Guy is hated and called an ahl player.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
I'm 100% against using Eller on the PP. If you're gonna use someone who's lazy and has no hockey sense, use Bourque instead. At least he has a good shot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
I remember the Detroit game it was like Plek and Gio would go into the zone with a purpose while Eller looked ADD, just running around with no purpose at all. Sometimes it'd lead to a coughed up puck but usually it'd just ruin a play.

Lars Eller should be looking at White and saying, "What was my excuse again?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
But I don't get that hate toward DD. He's producing, right? I'll go further: I think he plays the greatest hockey of his career right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
He's not great in his own zone and he will probably never be, but he's way better than he used to be; he's far from a liability. And he's slowly becoming an above average centerman on the faceoffs. What's not to like?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
And I don't get that systemic belief that Eller doesn't produce because of poor linemates. Of course it doesn't help, of course he would produce more, but it is far from entierly justifying his abysmal production right now...Eller is simply never at the right place, and seems to rarely chose the right play to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habstraction View Post
He (Eller) is certainly the most overated Habs player on this board, for sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habstraction View Post
The pro Eller have no more argument to justify their player's play and lack of production.
Quote:
Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
DD is playing well. He deserves his spot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVO16 View Post
DD's been producing at a ~70 points pace since the end of his slump. It doesn't erase the slump, but that's the production of a 1st line player in that period since the slump.
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
So Eller doesn't average much less than Desharnais at even strength this season and their PP minutes are the difference between a PP1 and a PP2 player. And average shifts? Eller actually averages more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekof232 View Post
Eller simply hasn't produced offensively this season compared to expectations and hasn't been particularly good (except at the beginning of the season); that's a fact.

Winter Eclipse is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 05:09 PM
  #793
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,708
vCash: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePriceIsRight44 View Post
In that stretch he's had 11 goals. 2 of which were from a good play on his part the other 9 were deflections off of him. Out of his 20 assists, at least half were 2nd assists where he pretty much had no presence in the play leading to a goal. 5 of those assists or so were gems on patches stick for an easy goal. I highly doubt Plecky Chucky and Eller couldn't produce 32 points in 56 games with the ideal minutes DD gets. Hence DD is an AHL level player even on the habs. We just cant pass up on a feel good story of a guy from Quebec who should have never made it instead of building a good hockey team.
DD got those ideal minutes for about 40 games, not 56. For 16-20 games Eller got that preferential treatment, aka why he even has 21 points to begin with. He has 6 points in first 3 games, 15 in next 56 with a rotation including Galchenyuk and Gallagher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVO16 View Post
Man, I love how that one guy came to prove your point the moment you made a case for it.

I didn't expect it but proves my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I pretty much ignore both extremes since the posters are clueless or exaggerating.

Desharnais is certainly more divisive, most either love him or hate him. A lot of DD's fans view him as a legitimate 1st line center, Eller is viewed by his fans as a 2nd line center. But the opposite is also true, most DD detractors view him as barely NHL capable whereas Eller's detractors still tend to view him as a solid 3rd line centerman.

In any case my original comment was more about the 1st sentence of Habstraction's post.
Let's be honest Sorinth, my opinion hasn't changed. I called DD's bad stretch a bad stretch where he should've been benched even more than 1 game. I wasn't happy with MT's decision to not keep him out longer.

That being said, I knew he was an NHL talent. An ideal offensive player? Obviously not. Look at my post history, I NEVER EVER suggested he's a long term solution.

The difference is I was called a DD supporter or DD fanboy just because I said the obvious: He's an NHL caliber player who can produce good numbers with good minutes.

Conversely, when I call Eller a top 9 forward(not unlike DD) I get called a hater but a flock of followers. Now tell me, if you were in my shoes, who seems overrated and who seems underrated?

If we ignore all 50 DD haters and all 2 DD lovers there would be like 4 people left discussing him.

LyricalLyricist is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 05:13 PM
  #794
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,708
vCash: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse View Post


DD fanboys really having fun bashing Eller I see!!
"DD is a top 9 forward"

"DD FANBOY!"

"Eller is a top 9 forward"

"ELLER HATER!!!"

LyricalLyricist is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 05:14 PM
  #795
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,708
vCash: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse View Post
You can read this thread, see the relentless bashing of Eller and abject fawning over Desharnais, and still classify Desharnais as a poor victim and Eller as a Golden Child?

THIS THREAD? Seriously. THIS thread.

Let's forget the DD threads are at part 20.

BTW, I'm not bashing him. Just because I don't agree with his upside and say it in a nice manner and some people get upset about it doesn't mean I'm bashing him. I don't believe in his offensive upside, is it a crime to have an opinion that isn't praising eller completely? I'm a fan of his and want him to be our future 3rd line center for many years but not our 2nd line C. That's all.

LyricalLyricist is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 05:20 PM
  #796
dutchy29
Registered User
 
dutchy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SIRISAACBROCKVILLE
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekof232 View Post
Eller simply hasn't produced offensively this season compared to expectations and hasn't been particularly good (except at the beginning of the season); that's a fact. That said, I believe that your comparison of ice time given to each player as a way to compare their offensive production is, well, rather lacking.

You ignore many stats (QOC, offensive zone start percentage, etc.) and the role given to each player for the team (one puts up points and displays offense while the other is expected to play a good defensive game and carry the puck from the neutral zone into the offensive zone) in your analysis.

Inversely, I also do not believe we can infer a dramatic increase in production from Eller with increased (and better quality) minutes and offensive zone starts. We simply haven't seen Eller get that opportunity of ''sheltered'' minutes (that DD has been given since the second half of his rookie season) and so we cannot know for sure.

But, as it stands, we can easily reason that with the advantages DD has had this season, Eller would have somewhat better stats.
A great player just doesn't need this much defending, I'm sorry but if people need to pick a side....one being in defence of DD and one being in defence of Eller, I think its absolutely absurd. Great players do the speaking for themselves. Neither Eller or DD are great players. DD has managed to keep his position on line 1 due to the fact that we really have no one else to replace him. Gallagher went from having to work his but off to make a team to almost winning a Calder to getting first line duties. Your career is what you make of it, Eller has the tools but is showing us thus far he is probably a 3rd or 2nd line center at best. Given the choice to get rid of one of these guys, I would probably pick DD just because we need size...but it wouldn't be an easy choice. saying that neither of these guys will be the difference between us being a champion or not.

dutchy29 is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 05:25 PM
  #797
compile
Give me Scotch!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vaughan, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,902
vCash: 693
Send a message via Skype™ to compile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Some posters on here wouldn't know the truth if it flew over you and crapped on your head.

Half the posters on here are about their agenda and common sense takes the week off.
Says the guy that replied to me saying Markov wasn't even in his prime.

Again for a guy with the word SCOUT in his name you are completely clueless.

Maybe you should change your name back to Carey Price.

Let's see what DD does in the playoffs, when the refs keep their whistle in their pockets.

__________________
Originally Posted by Jeffonfire
There's no ghosts... only god exists. Luckily, he is our netminder.
Originall Posted by hockeyfan2k11
Winning is not the #1 thing. They want to win THEIR way.....even if it means they're handicapping themselves.
compile is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 05:28 PM
  #798
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,708
vCash: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by compile View Post
Says the guy that replied to me saying Markov wasn't even in his prime.

Again for a guy with the word SCOUT in his name you are completely clueless.

Maybe you should change your name back to Carey Price.

Let's see what DD does in the playoffs, when the refs keep their whistle in their pockets.
You think we should put Pacioretty on waivers....you know based on last year's playoff performance?

What about Gallagher who got a solid point more than DD but a fantastic -8 differential more than DD. Should we drop Gallagher too?

LyricalLyricist is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 05:36 PM
  #799
Bieber fever
Registered User
 
Bieber fever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Westmount
Posts: 5,654
vCash: 500
i swear if he wasnt 6'2 people would call him a bust

Bieber fever is offline  
Old
02-11-2014, 05:39 PM
  #800
compile
Give me Scotch!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vaughan, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,902
vCash: 693
Send a message via Skype™ to compile
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
You think we should put Pacioretty on waivers....you know based on last year's playoff performance?

What about Gallagher who got a solid point more than DD but a fantastic -8 differential more than DD. Should we drop Gallagher too?
Maybe I should paint my room black and poop in the sink from now on.

Also maybe I should walk on the hi-way and drive me car on the side walk

compile is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:15 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.