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What happened to Lars Eller?

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05-28-2014, 11:17 AM
  #951
Andy
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Can someone explain to me why Eller needs to be traded? The odd man out here is DD.

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05-28-2014, 11:18 AM
  #952
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Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
Did you even follow the season? You think Eller just lost his confidence like that? It was clear that he lost all confidence being switching linemates etc etc... He was actually sad to see.
It never ceases to amaze me how fans sitting from afar, from some tv screen, are able to figure a player's woes more accurately than the team and its array of specialists and resources can. There is so much info we just don't have access to and more often than not, that info is made up of determining factors. Just sayin'.

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05-28-2014, 11:23 AM
  #953
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As I understand it, Eller is RFA for one more year and then becomes a UFA. So if we sign him to a one year deal to see what he can do, he can walk to the UFA Auction if he wants to.

Personally, I am with the crowd that thinks Eller wasn't given the right role and wingers for him to succeed this past regular season by MT. I think the Eller we saw for the last part of the season before, and this play-offs, is what Eller is capable of.

I cant imaging Eller seeing himself as the regular season guy, so I cant imagine him signing a long term deal for the $1.5M-$2.0M per season you would pay for the way he played and produced.

If you want to sign him short term as a show me, you risk losing him in a year or two. Sign him longer term and the risk is that you overpay him if he is the regular season Eller.

My bet is the stellar Eller is the real Eller and would try to do a 4-5 year deal on the basis that he is a 15-20 goal, 45-50 point guy, who is big and plays a good defensive game with a physical side. I am thinking such a player is worth $3.5M -$4M.

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05-28-2014, 11:25 AM
  #954
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
His current play + start of 13/14 + 12/13 season

12/13
30 points in 46 games

13/14:
17 points in 29 games
7 points in 46 games
16 points in 18 games (end of season + playoffs)

Let's see if Habs can figure what went wrong in that stretch because a lot of things point to him making Habs look bad if they let him go. MT might not be the best at development but Habs need a big fast 2way C and it'd be best for the team if he can try to see what makes him tick.
It goes even further back then that. Before his slump this year he had
54pts in 95 games which is a 47pt pace
75pts in 150 games which is a 41pt pace

Those are simply amazing numbers considering his usage.

Even if we include his slump then he has 98 points in his last 214 games, which is a 38pt pace over a season. And again that is without PP time, without much offensive support, with constantly changing linemates, and playing a defensive role.

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05-28-2014, 11:35 AM
  #955
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Can someone explain to me why Eller needs to be traded? The odd man out here is DD.
It's not about how you feel but what management thinks. If Desharnais was the odd man out, he wouldn't get all this ice time playing on the 1st line and 1st PP wave. The odd man out is the one being relegated to a secondary role.

Personally, I hope for Lars' sake he gets traded. It was quite frustrating to see him getting the shaft for the past couple years and I'm hoping he will get a chance somewhere else. With DD, Pleks and Galchy, along with Briere as backup, I'm confident these are the last few days Eller will be wearing a Habs jersey.

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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
As I understand it, Eller is RFA for one more year and then becomes a UFA. So if we sign him to a one year deal to see what he can do, he can walk to the UFA Auction if he wants to.

Personally, I am with the crowd that thinks Eller wasn't given the right role and wingers for him to succeed this past regular season by MT. I think the Eller we saw for the last part of the season before, and this play-offs, is what Eller is capable of.

I cant imaging Eller seeing himself as the regular season guy, so I cant imagine him signing a long term deal for the $1.5M-$2.0M per season you would pay for the way he played and produced.

If you want to sign him short term as a show me, you risk losing him in a year or two. Sign him longer term and the risk is that you overpay him if he is the regular season Eller.

My bet is the stellar Eller is the real Eller and would try to do a 4-5 year deal on the basis that he is a 15-20 goal, 45-50 point guy, who is big and plays a good defensive game with a physical side. I am thinking such a player is worth $3.5M -$4M.
And how exactly do you intend to achieve that? By giving him more ice time? PP time? Top 6 wingers? If Therrien didn't do that in 2 seasons, why would he do that next year?

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05-28-2014, 11:35 AM
  #956
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There is a better solution: trade him for a winger who has been playing all his life at that position. He won't have to figure it out. Is there a problem with trading Eller?
Sure I'd take a decent offer, maybe even an upgrade if we can get a more proven winger by throwing in a prospect or pick. That said we don't know what kind of phone calls MB is getting on Eller, so gotta assume he'll still be here in September.

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05-28-2014, 11:37 AM
  #957
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There is a better solution: trade him for a winger who has been playing all his life at that position. He won't have to figure it out. Is there a problem with trading Eller?
Apart from it not making a lick of sense? No. No problem at all.

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05-28-2014, 11:38 AM
  #958
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Yep, same for me here. It's an horribly small sample size of games where he performed well, playoffs or not.

What happens if, say, we commit 100% to having Chucky-Eller as our 1-2 punch but then we get 26 points Eller showing up and Chucky struggling with the increased workload? At least Plekanec and DD are known commodities.

I'm always on the fence with a player that does incredibly well in one playoff run. Especially when the guy is 25 or older.

I'm willing to eat crow, even looking forward to it! But that will have to wait after Eller achieves some consistency or at least good results over an 82 games season.
And what do you consider consistency/good results given his role on the 3rd line with no PP time and constantly changing linemates?

Like I mentioned in a previous post, he was at half a point per game for 150 games before his slump this year, and has a 38pt pace over his last 214 games including his slump. Those are very good numbers for a player who doesn't get PP time and plays a defensive role and has spent most of that time with grinders.

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05-28-2014, 11:42 AM
  #959
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Habs signed Briere because of his playoff production. Eller leads all forwards in points with 13 in 16 games, I highly doubt he gets moved.

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05-28-2014, 11:42 AM
  #960
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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
As I understand it, Eller is RFA for one more year and then becomes a UFA. So if we sign him to a one year deal to see what he can do, he can walk to the UFA Auction if he wants to.

Personally, I am with the crowd that thinks Eller wasn't given the right role and wingers for him to succeed this past regular season by MT. I think the Eller we saw for the last part of the season before, and this play-offs, is what Eller is capable of.

I cant imaging Eller seeing himself as the regular season guy, so I cant imagine him signing a long term deal for the $1.5M-$2.0M per season you would pay for the way he played and produced.

If you want to sign him short term as a show me, you risk losing him in a year or two. Sign him longer term and the risk is that you overpay him if he is the regular season Eller.

My bet is the stellar Eller is the real Eller and would try to do a 4-5 year deal on the basis that he is a 15-20 goal, 45-50 point guy, who is big and plays a good defensive game with a physical side. I am thinking such a player is worth $3.5M -$4M.
Pretty much this, you either commit to him long term with low-end top-6 money now or he's gone. It's mind boggling that we risk losing this guy to make room for DD.

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05-28-2014, 11:45 AM
  #961
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Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
It never ceases to amaze me how fans sitting from afar, from some tv screen, are able to figure a player's woes more accurately than the team and its array of specialists and resources can. There is so much info we just don't have access to and more often than not, that info is made up of determining factors. Just sayin'.
You're right, but that is if it happened randomly. Like if Eller was guns blazing, and all of a sudden, with no changes hockey related, he just started sucking.
However, that wasn't the case this year. It's been discussed endlessly throughout the season too.
EGG line was performing well. The rest of our forwards weren't. So Therrien broke them up to jump start other players. He even said so in press conferences, that he moved Gallagher around in order to hopefully spark others.
It worked, but of course, Eller and Galchenyuk paid the price with dropped ice time and production. Still, that duo was able to maintain a .5 scoring ratio. Sadly, Plek's line now needed a winger, and at the time Galchenyuk was still our best one with Gallagher, so he was moved next to Plek. At that point, Eller got even less ice time, and also saw his PP time completely vanish.

Now with two scrappers or struggling players, Eller produced closed to nothing. He wasn't playing poorly though. His linemates just could not finish any of his plays, and after a while, he started hogging the puck more because of it. That lead to nothing, his confidence started to drop, he just looked lost, frustrated, and unhappy out there.

Maybe there's some behind the scene crap that happened. Who knows, but there is a direct correlation between Eller's production/ice time and linemates.

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05-28-2014, 11:45 AM
  #962
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Apart from it not making a lick of sense? No. No problem at all.
I understand it doesn't make sense to you but you would trade Desharnais. Bergevin won't. There is too much traffic at center and somebody needs to go.

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05-28-2014, 11:50 AM
  #963
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Habs signed Briere because of his playoff production. Eller leads all forwards in points with 13 in 16 games, I highly doubt he gets moved.
Briere is a backup. By keeping Eller, you persist in playing Galchenyuk (you know, that 1st round pick, 3rd overall talented center) on the wing or you waste a lot of time trying to make Eller a winger.

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05-28-2014, 11:54 AM
  #964
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Originally Posted by brian70 View Post
Briere is a backup. By keeping Eller, you persist in playing Galchenyuk (you know, that 1st round pick, 3rd overall talented center) on the wing or you waste a lot of time trying to make Eller a winger.
Eller isn't taking galchenyuk's role. The only one playing a role at center that galchenyuk could take over at the moment is DD.

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05-28-2014, 11:56 AM
  #965
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Eller isn't taking galchenyuk's role. The only one playing a role at center that galchenyuk could take over at the moment is DD.
Yup. And I cringe at the thought of potentially having three centres (Briere, DD and Galchenyuk) who would need soft minutes to produce in the event that Eller is moved.

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05-28-2014, 12:04 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Maybe there's some behind the scene crap that happened. Who knows, but there is a direct correlation between Eller's production/ice time and linemates.
I can see how you can make a correlation between events that occur coincidentally, like a change in linemates and a drop in production. I was merely responding to the "it is clear" comment -- when you're on the outside looking in, it's probable but not always an absolute as the comment suggested.

On another level, why do we need to consider moving Eller? Has he not shown how valuable he can be in the playoffs, how effective he is near the boards -- we don't have enough players who can do what he does. And as much as everyone wants moar speed, size, especially when it comes with some hockey smarts and grit, is a valuable component. And to top it off, Eller is young and is not a costly asset. He's not going anywhere.

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05-28-2014, 12:05 PM
  #967
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Eller isn't taking galchenyuk's role. The only one playing a role at center that galchenyuk could take over at the moment is DD.
Galchenyuk should start playing center on the 3rd line next season. He should get top 6 wingers whenever he's ready and Plekanec will slide down. DD will remain top 6.

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05-28-2014, 12:08 PM
  #968
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Originally Posted by brian70 View Post
Galchenyuk should start playing center on the 3rd line next season. He should get top 6 wingers whenever he's ready and Plekanec will slide down. DD will remain top 6.
Nothing you wrote means anything.

You're completely ignoring the matchups these lines play. We would have 3 out of 4 centers not being able to play any D. Can't understand why people are so adamant about keeping an exploitation level player.

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05-28-2014, 12:15 PM
  #969
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Can someone explain to me why Eller needs to be traded? The odd man out here is DD.
Please try and be impartial.

DD + Patches is a proven chemistry combo, really good production, and an incredible salary bargain. How is that the odd thing out from a GM's perspective?

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05-28-2014, 12:18 PM
  #970
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Nothing you wrote means anything.

You're completely ignoring the matchups these lines play. We would have 3 out of 4 centers not being able to play any D. Can't understand why people are so adamant about keeping an exploitation level player.
That's one way to put an end to this conversation.

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05-28-2014, 12:29 PM
  #971
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Was saying before the playoffs that Eller was on his way out, unless he could redeem himself with solid playoffs.

Now I consider him redeemed. Our best forward all playoffs long, on both sides of the ice.

Keeping Eller around means that Galchenyuk will most definitely be used as a winger yet another year, though, as I don't see either DD or Plekanec being moved.

Galchenyuk might simply end up being a winger in the NHL... Not necessarily a bad thing as we need high-end talent on wings as well, but...

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05-28-2014, 12:30 PM
  #972
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Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
Please try and be impartial.

DD + Patches is a proven chemistry combo, really good production, and an incredible salary bargain. How is that the odd thing out from a GM's perspective?
There are many reasons...

...So long as DD is here him and Pacioretty will not be separated, he will continue to get all the offensive opportunities, from zone starts to the vast majority of PP time. That won't change when Galchenyuk moves to centre. I think holding DD's hand is not only an obstacle for Galchenyuk's eventually move to centre, but it's an obstacle for Pacioretty as well who won't develop his game to play against tougher matchups, limiting his potential as exploitation winger.

Also, the upside of Galchenyuk in Desharnais' role is much greater than DD being in that role.

Moving Eller to make way for Galchenyuk at centre gives the habs 3 of 4 centres who can't play defense, which you can't have. Also, you keep the Canadiens small at centre, a position which you need some size.

Eller isn't done growing, neither is Galchenyuk. Plekanec can still provide good offense. A team with two two-way centres and an exploitation centre (that's what Galchenyuk would have to be at first) is better than three exploitation centres.

It's just amazing how much the team needs to bend-over backwards to accommodate and coddle DD so that he can be productive.

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05-28-2014, 12:34 PM
  #973
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There are many reasons...

...So long as DD is here him and Pacioretty will not be separated, he will continue to get all the offensive opportunities, from zone starts to the vast majority of PP time. That won't change when Galchenyuk moves to centre. I think holding DD's hand is not only an obstacle for Galchenyuk's eventually move to centre, but it's an obstacle for Pacioretty as well who won't develop his game to play against tougher matchups, limiting his potential as exploitation winger.

Also, the upside of Galchenyuk in Desharnais' role is much greater than DD being in that role.

Moving Eller to make way for Galchenyuk at centre gives the habs 3 of 4 centres who can't play defense, which you can't have. Also, you keep the Canadiens small at centre, a position which you need some size.

Eller isn't done growing, neither is Galchenyuk. Plekanec can still provide good offense. A team with two two-way centres and an exploitation centre (that's what Galchenyuk would have to be at first) is better than three exploitation centres.

It's just amazing how much the team needs to bend-over backwards to accommodate and coddle DD so that he can be productive.
I'd love to see DD being moved on the RW and see how he handles winger duty. He's shifty and tenacious, and he has great passing skills. I think it could work out, and it would give us some depth on our very weak RW side.

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05-28-2014, 12:35 PM
  #974
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Can someone explain to me why Eller needs to be traded? The odd man out here is DD.
No one wants Desharnais unless Pacioretty is coming with him.

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05-28-2014, 12:40 PM
  #975
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I'd love to see DD being moved on the RW and see how he handles winger duty. He's shifty and tenacious, and he has great passing skills. I think it could work out, and it would give us some depth on our very weak RW side.
I wouldn't mind that as well.

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