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Trade Thread XVII: Callahan's Reckoning.

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Old
02-04-2014, 02:48 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If you want me to be blunt and brutally honest, the answer is that Stralman is just not good enough of a player to invest in long-term

IMO, he's good enough. I'd feel real confident with Girardi, McDonagh, Staal, and Hank as the backbone to our defense and the highest paid guys with low cost players Stralman & Klein as the depth defenders and leaving 1 spot open for McIlrath, Allen, whoever else, + Skjei in 3 years.

Even though the cap is going up, and the option to buy out Richards is there, it is a good thing to have cost certainty in the position you need the fewest but most skilled players on a 23 man roster. Then rotate in, without undo pressure, the kids, in protected roles, till they are ready to supplant Stralman & Klein at some point, who are not to old they can't be useful to other teams in a few years.

Having a rough idea what your d will cost out of 23 men will give Sather/Gorton/whoever???? a projection to work with when re-upping FA's, looking to who might be available in a certain time frame, and improving whichever line of the other 15-16 guys who take up the bulk of the roster spots.

I'd roll with:

McD - Girardi
Staal - Stralman
? - Klein

...the next couple years.

How many teams can afford 4 all-star D-men in their primes with market value pay and not have glaring holes in other area's?

To have the 3 we have; good, bad, or indifferent, is more than most teams have and the 2 lower cost guys we have are no hack's on D, one a little more offensive, the other a little more defensive but neither absolutely deficient of both skills that they are a detriment worthy of the denotation "pylon".

Now. If only we can get the few forward holes we have figured out, most glaring, an all-star 2-way center who is somewhat young. We'd be on the right path.

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02-04-2014, 02:49 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by xander View Post
If Stralman is signed to a reasonable rate, he can be moved. He's a solid 4/5 RD in his 20s, that will return assets if the contract isn't stupid.
Agreed. It depends on what Stralman is looking for.

If Stralman wants a 3 year deal worth 3-3.5 million he can easily be moved if McI or Allen force their way onto the team next year. I would be shocked if he regressed to the point where he lost value.

That is pretty much what Nashville did with Klein.

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02-04-2014, 02:49 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Slick Rick 61 View Post
Ola, I don't fully disagree with your opinion. I sound hypocritical regarding Stralman because I was thrilled that the Rangers were able to get back a signed Kevin Klein for 4 more years.

However, does it really make sense to hand out another longer term deal to a "solid" defenseman? I like Stralman, really I do, but to lock up another 2nd pair type long-term creates a bit of a log-jam. Prospects obviously have to earn their roster spots, but where does one open up when you add Stralman for another 4-5 years? The team lacks offensive impact from the blue line, and it's pretty important for the system Vigneault implements.

Players like that have trade value under longer deals only if they remain a contributor and they fill an immediate need for an inquiring team.

A lot changes in 4-5 years time. Maybe you have a bad year and an impact D-man falls into your lap. You can't just bury players in the minors anymore. If the player falls off, it hurts your team in the now, and often will require you to eat money in a deal.

Committing 4-5 years to secondary players is just too risky for my taste going forward, given the state and makeup of the roster. It's as much about minimizing the risk of a player's decline than it is about the salary cap flexibility.

Of course, a steep rising salary cap minimizes these issues. But that's no guarantee, even with the steady increase in new TV revenue.
Except that if you get him signed up to a reasonable deal, you will ALWAYS be able to move him as there is always a need for competent RHD around the league.

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02-04-2014, 02:53 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
If you're talking about a 5/6 dman I agree. But even if Stralman is only a 4, you can still have a couple guys leap frog him and not need to bury him in Hartford. Plus, as long as he doesn't completely fall apart, he can likely be moved since his cap hit will become more of a relative value in later years.
I truly think as a guy who was a late bloomer and really only had success with one team, he won't get that big of a deal in Free Agency. That's why I don't think the Rangers should hand out too much term.

Then again, Jan Hejda, an older rookie, had some success for a few years in Columbus, and Colorado threw four years at him. He's been a terrific fit.

This is one of those arguments where you will find fair points on both sides.

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02-04-2014, 02:57 PM
  #280
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I think Stewart is getting bashed a bit more than he deserves. The guy isn't a grinder, he isn't a 2-way player, however he knows how to score goals and he is very capable of putting up 100 PIM's worth of fighting majors in a year. I wouldn't be all that upset if he was part of the deal coming back. See how he does over the rest of this season and next season and if he works bring him back. If not, he is well worth a 1st round pick at next years deadline.



Agree on all of this.



I'd sign Stralman to a 5 year contract iat a reasonable cap figure. 3 million? Done deal.



He's a good player for sure but I bet he gets more than 6.6 unfortunately.
I would expect, unless the whole world goes looney, that Stastny signs a 6-7 year deal at 7.5 (max)

If I'm the Rangers, I hold firm at 6 years.

7.5 is the same imprint on next years cap as 6.66 is today

I take Stastny and pay for the same production that I am getting from Richards and then pay extra for the other aspects of the game where Stastny is better.

Faster, better defensively, beter on face offs and if I am going to bank on a player maintaining a certain level of production over the next 4-5 years, I'm banking on the 28 year old and not the 34 year old that's already showing signs of decline.

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02-04-2014, 03:03 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I would expect, unless the whole world goes looney, that Stastny signs a 6-7 year deal at 7.5 (max)

If I'm the Rangers, I hold firm at 6 years.

7.5 is the same imprint on next years cap as 6.66 is today

I take Stastny and pay for the same production that I am getting from Richards and then pay extra for the other aspects of the game where Stastny is better.

Faster, better defensively, beter on face offs and if I am going to bank on a player maintaining a certain level of production over the next 4-5 years, I'm banking on the 28 year old and not the 34 year old that's already showing signs of decline.
Just know that whatever you give Stastny, Stepan will want something very similar in his next contract. Similar players. Similar point totals.

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02-04-2014, 03:13 PM
  #282
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brooks mentions that the rangers are interested in stewart and signing stastny since they had they played well together. stastny and stepan are very similar players. maybe sather and gorton think stepan could be a good match for stewart.

personally i'd rather not spend that kind of money on stastny. he's a good player, but we already have stepan. buy out richards and trade callahan. use that cap space for raises to girardi, stralman, kreider, zucc, poo poo, and D Moore. Hags, step, and staal are due for raises in the following years.

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02-04-2014, 03:14 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by xander View Post
Paul Krepelka of the Orr Hockey Group negotiated his last contract.
Is that a good thing?

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02-04-2014, 03:14 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Just know that whatever you give Stastny, Stepan will want something very similar in his next contract. Similar players. Similar point totals.
I'm not advocating signing Stastny, but that will be the case whether the Rangers sign him or someone else does. A comp is a comp.

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02-04-2014, 03:18 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Just know that whatever you give Stastny, Stepan will want something very similar in his next contract. Similar players. Similar point totals.
But Stepan will still be an RFA when this contract is up. He'll also be 3 years younger then Stastny is now. Add on the fact that he's broken 70 points three times and you really have a different situation.

Only way their contracts would be relative is if the cap raises by a significant amount. They may be similar, but until Stepan proves consistency, he is the clear inferior player.

There's a reason one will be a top 6 center on USA and the other will be on the bench.

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02-04-2014, 03:20 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Just know that whatever you give Stastny, Stepan will want something very similar in his next contract. Similar players. Similar point totals.
Correct me if I am wrong... Stepan will still be an RFA. Stastny is a UFA. Step would get a bit less because of that.

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02-04-2014, 03:22 PM
  #287
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Correct me if I am wrong... Stepan will still be an RFA. Stastny is a UFA. Step would get a bit less because of that.
Think he can go to arbitration and effectively be a year closer to UFA status too.

I may be wrong too.

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02-04-2014, 03:24 PM
  #288
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Correct me if I am wrong... Stepan will still be an RFA. Stastny is a UFA. Step would get a bit less because of that.
Probably a but less, but he will use that in his negotiations. As he should.

I don't think Stastny would be the worst move in the world, but he definitely is not a true difference maker like I would rather see signed for big money.

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02-04-2014, 03:31 PM
  #289
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Probably a but less, but he will use that in his negotiations. As he should.

I don't think Stastny would be the worst move in the world, but he definitely is not a true difference maker like I would rather see signed for big money.
But Stepan is, right now, a 50-55 point center. Can he improve on that, I sure hope he can, but he hasn't proven he is a consistent 70 point center, or even within that range at this point.

There's a massive difference between a 75 point center and a 50-55 point center.

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02-04-2014, 03:33 PM
  #290
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It will be interesting to see how Sather deals with Stepan. I guess a lot of it hinges on how he does next year. The bridge deals are an opportunity for the players to prove that they deserve the big bucks and longer term. Thus far, Stepan has proved that Sather has made the right choice in refusing to give him a McDonagh-type deal.

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02-04-2014, 03:33 PM
  #291
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But Stepan is, right now, a 50-55 point center. Can he improve on that, I sure hope he can, but he hasn't proven he is a consistent 70 point center, or even within that range at this point.

There's a massive difference between a 75 point center and a 50-55 point center.
Stastny has put up 70+ points 3 times in 8 years. Not exactly consistent but he is a good player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by backofthefridge View Post
brooks mentions that the rangers are interested in stewart and signing stastny since they had they played well together. stastny and stepan are very similar players. maybe sather and gorton think stepan could be a good match for stewart.

personally i'd rather not spend that kind of money on stastny. he's a good player, but we already have stepan. buy out richards and trade callahan. use that cap space for raises to girardi, stralman, kreider, zucc, poo poo, and D Moore. Hags, step, and staal are due for raises in the following years.
It's an interesting idea. Stewart played his best hockey with Stastny as his center.

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02-04-2014, 03:35 PM
  #292
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Stastny has put up 70+ points 3 times in 8 years. Not exactly consistent but he is a good player.
He hasn't had numbers close to that since 09-10.

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02-04-2014, 03:36 PM
  #293
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Signing Stastny to a mega deal would be a classic Sather move. Can't wrap my head around people advocating his signing. It's just more of the same.

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02-04-2014, 03:42 PM
  #294
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Signing Stastny to a mega deal would be a classic Sather move. Can't wrap my head around people advocating his signing. It's just more of the same.
Classic "You're not the best there is... but you're the best we've got"

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02-04-2014, 03:42 PM
  #295
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Please don't sign Stastny . Let's just go with out guys into next season. Let Fast replace Cally and JTM move into 3rd C. It's not a bad thing to have cap space.

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02-04-2014, 03:44 PM
  #296
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Please don't sign Stastny . Let's just go with out guys into next season. Let Fast replace Cally and JTM move into 3rd C. It's not a bad thing to have cap space.
Kristo > Fast

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02-04-2014, 03:45 PM
  #297
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Signing Stastny to a mega deal would be a classic Sather move. Can't wrap my head around people advocating his signing. It's just more of the same.
You're right, I also think it would be a major mistake signing him.

However, I don't think he's a true comparable to Stepan. Stepan has hit 50 points once and had an anomoly of a season last year. Maybe he'll improve (i hope he does) but as of right now, he's a 45-55 point center who hasn't outperformed that over a full year.

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02-04-2014, 03:45 PM
  #298
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Kristo > Fast
Yeah, we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one.

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02-04-2014, 03:45 PM
  #299
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Kristo > Fast
At pure scoring. Fast is sound defensively and can replace the penalty killing of Cally. I think Fast is more ready for an NHL 3rd line role than Kristo.

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02-04-2014, 03:47 PM
  #300
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At pure scoring. Fast is sound defensively and can replace the penalty killing of Cally. I think Fast is more ready for an NHL 3rd line role than Kristo.
I don't know that when all is said and done he will even be better at him than that, but your point definitely stands about the other aspects of their games.

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