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STL/PIT trade proposal

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08-07-2005, 10:22 AM
  #1
kimzey59
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STL/PIT trade proposal

To put it bluntly: Pittsberg needs defensive players to offset their all-offense lineup. The Blues have Defense but need offense so:

Sillinger, Mayers, Salvador and Walker(combined salaries: 3.2 mil)
For
Tarnstrom, Morozov(or Kraft if Morozov doesn't plan to return to the NHL) and Surovy(combined salaries: 3.9 mil)

Pittsberg would still have more than enough Offense but this trade would give them some solid defensive/PK performers plus a legit Faceoff specialist.

Sillinger and Mayers would be the foundation for a good shutdown line(along with Koltsov, Lasse or Fata) and Salvy and Walker gives the D some muscle.

Surovy and Morozov give the Blues a 2nd line and Tarnstrom gives us a very respectable top 4(Brewer, Tarnstrom, Jackman, Backman).

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08-07-2005, 10:36 AM
  #2
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I'm a Blues fan, so I love your suggestion, but it makes no sense from Pittsburgh's point of view. Why would they trade three skilled players for four 3rd/4th line players? For one thing, there's no way they're trading Tarnstrom, given his offensive potential, especially in combination with Gonchar. They might be interested in Sillinger as the center for a checking line, or Salvador and/or Walker for toughness and depth on the blueline, but if there is a trade, it would be for maybe one of the lesser skilled players you mentioned, plus maybe a 4th rounder. Guys of Mayers' ilk (high-energy guys with hands of stone) are freely available for dirt cheap on the FA market, and most teams would probably rather give a guy from their AHL team a shot at that position at the league minimum rather than paying Mayers' $700,000 for it.

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08-07-2005, 10:43 AM
  #3
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I just don't see the Pens doing it. We're not going to make a trade just to add muscle. Especially if we're going to have trouble fitting them into the line-up.

To put it bluntly...the Penguins line-up is pretty much set except for second and third line center(one if which Kraft will center, the other will be either Malkin or a free agent). Our third line is going to be a scoring line just because we're overflowing with offensive talent. Our fourth line is tough as nails with Roy & VandenBussche, but that's it. Sillinger & Mayers don't really add much to the Penguins.

Walker is no better than what we have right now and Salvador isn't good enough to make it worth giving up Tarnstrom on the blueline.

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08-07-2005, 10:46 AM
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Lionel Hutz
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I'm not sure Salvador is what we're looking for. I like the basis of the trade, and I would gladly ship the Pens you mention for help on D, but I'm not sure these guys cut it.

Can you upgrade the D in that trade?

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08-07-2005, 11:03 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Hutz
I'm not sure Salvador is what we're looking for. I like the basis of the trade, and I would gladly ship the Pens you mention for help on D, but I'm not sure these guys cut it.
I disagree. IMO Salvy is exactly what you guys should be looking for. He is a Defensive player, is very physical and is mobile enough to play on a 2nd unit. He is exactly the type of PK specialist Pittsberg should be looking to get.

Quote:
Can you upgrade the D in that trade?
We can make it Salvy and Weinrich but that is quite a bit of salary going your way.

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08-07-2005, 11:07 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarlo
I'm a Blues fan, so I love your suggestion, but it makes no sense from Pittsburgh's point of view. Why would they trade three skilled players for four 3rd/4th line players? For one thing, there's no way they're trading Tarnstrom, given his offensive potential, especially in combination with Gonchar. They might be interested in Sillinger as the center for a checking line, or Salvador and/or Walker for toughness and depth on the blueline, but if there is a trade, it would be for maybe one of the lesser skilled players you mentioned, plus maybe a 4th rounder. Guys of Mayers' ilk (high-energy guys with hands of stone) are freely available for dirt cheap on the FA market, and most teams would probably rather give a guy from their AHL team a shot at that position at the league minimum rather than paying Mayers' $700,000 for it.

Pittsberg is in a rare prediciment. They have too many skilled players(on both sides of teh puck) and not enough spots to play everyone.

Morozov and Surovy aren't a good fit for the role they'll be placed in. They need to be put in Offensive situations and that won't happen in Pittsberg. They also can't send any of their forwards to the minors as they all have to go through wiavers. The only option they have is to trade them. Sillinger is a guy who can play on any line and Mayers is fast enough to keep up with skilled linemates(and he seems to do well when put in a pure "power" role). Both are good defensively and would really help their PK.

Tarnstrom is the odd man out on the Pitts defense. Jackman and Gonchar will man the 1st PP unit and Tarnstrom would be wasted on the 2nd unit. On top of that he will probably get 2+ mil on his extension. That is a lot of cash for your 3rd D man, especially when you have Orpik and Whitney right behind him.

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08-07-2005, 11:18 AM
  #7
Jag68Sid87
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I like the proposal. Nicely done.

From the Pens standpoint, I'd have no problem with the deal. Sillinger is a good fit. Mayers adds something to the lineup. Salvador I REALLY like. And the team saves an added $700,000.

This might not work if Pittsburgh can't sign Malkin (Kraft would probably stay at that point), so Morozov is more likely. That said, he's also a better player than Kraft and makes the deal more even from a Blues perspective.

But I just don't see the Blues spending the extra 700 K in a trade like this with their ownership situation in flux.

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08-07-2005, 11:23 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Vlady27
I like the proposal. Nicely done.

From the Pens standpoint, I'd have no problem with the deal. Sillinger is a good fit. Mayers adds something to the lineup. Salvador I REALLY like. And the team saves an added $700,000.

This might not work if Pittsburgh can't sign Malkin (Kraft would probably stay at that point), so Morozov is more likely. That said, he's also a better player than Kraft and makes the deal more even from a Blues perspective.

But I just don't see the Blues spending the extra 700 K in a trade like this with their ownership situation in flux.
The Blues have about 3.5-4 mil before we hit Lauries Budget. The money won't be an issue considering how much cash is going back. In this case I don't think long term deals would be an issue either. All are young and relatively cheap. The only reason we didn't lock up Pronger is because it was too many $$$ over too long a time. To put it simply: the Blues can afford to make this move.

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08-07-2005, 11:30 AM
  #9
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As a Pens fan, I would not trade Tarnstrom and Morozov. Tarnstrom is becoming one of the best 2 way defensemen in the league, while Morozov has just shown last year he finally might have reached his potential, tearing up a very skilled RSL league. Although we would be getting more defensive guys, we'd also be making another hole on the team by ridding of Morozov and Tarnstrom.

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08-07-2005, 11:30 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59
The Blues have about 3.5-4 mil before we hit Lauries Budget. The money won't be an issue considering how much cash is going back. In this case I don't think long term deals would be an issue either. All are young and relatively cheap. The only reason we didn't lock up Pronger is because it was too many $$$ over too long a time. To put it simply: the Blues can afford to make this move.
This is very true. Also, at this point there really isn't a favorite out West to go all the way. The Blues division doesn't have a clear favorite, IMO, as Detroit has stepped back in net and at forward, Nashville has upgraded w/ Karia to close the skill level, Columbus has jumped up on D, w/ Foote, and the Blues have become more ballanced. Anyone could win the division at this point, and I think if the Blues added some scoring help, they could take a solid run at the division title. And for 700 K, this would be a very solid move and cheaper then adding a UFA.

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08-07-2005, 11:34 AM
  #11
Lionel Hutz
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I'm no expert on the Blues, but I feel they will be lucky to make a run at keeping their playoff streak intact.

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08-07-2005, 11:36 AM
  #12
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I'd do it. Our lineup is improved and we've added star power, but we are still weak throughout the third and fourth lines and also defensively. With a good checking line and one or two solid defensemen, I think this team could really go places.

My personal preference would be to sign Damphousse, because he can effectively help us by being a third line center, PK, even strength defensive play, faceoffs, take shifts with the top lines and do fine, and most importantly could teach a lot to guys like Koltsov and Armstrong who I figure to have good third line potential.

This trade would be fine by me, though. What it is in my mind is moving three guys whose roles are sort of undefined on the team and who seem like candidates to be odd men out for some help in other areas. What I can't figure out is why the Pens qualified so many guys if they were so serious about adding Palffy. I can't see a role for quite a few of the guys we qualified.

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08-07-2005, 11:40 AM
  #13
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Why do this trade if you're the Pens?
We get their 3rd-4th liners for 3 talented players.

No thank you.

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08-07-2005, 11:41 AM
  #14
kimzey59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damoose212001
As a Pens fan, I would not trade Tarnstrom and Morozov. Tarnstrom is becoming one of the best 2 way defensemen in the league, while Morozov has just shown last year he finally might have reached his potential, tearing up a very skilled RSL league. Although we would be getting more defensive guys, we'd also be making another hole on the team by ridding of Morozov and Tarnstrom.
Holes that you already have players in the system to replace.
How many points is Morozov going to score on the 3rd line with no PP time? It doesn't matter if he's progressed or not, he won't be effective if you put that kind of limitation on him. Is it really worth it to pay 1.6 mil to somebody that isn't a special teams player?
How many points is Tarnstrom going to get on the 2nd PP unit? On top of that, is he going to play on the PK unit at all(with Orpik, Whitney, Gonchar and Milichar already there)? Is it really worth it to spend 2+ mil on a #3 D man?

From an outside POV it make no sense for the Pens to do either. The team would be better off to trade those players for people who better fit those roles. Salvy, Mayers and Walker are Pk specialists. You don't need to give them a ton of ice time but they still fill very valueable roles that Pitts doesn't have anybody to fill right now. Sillinger is a faceoff specialist. He can play in any situation and would do very well with some of those youngsters on his wing.

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08-07-2005, 11:43 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Hutz
I'm no expert on the Blues, but I feel they will be lucky to make a run at keeping their playoff streak intact.
I'm an expert on the Blues, and right now I agree. And I really don't care if we don't make the playoffs - and I've never said that about this team.

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08-07-2005, 11:48 AM
  #16
kimzey59
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues
I'm an expert on the Blues, and right now I agree. And I really don't care if we don't make the playoffs - and I've never said that about this team.
I'm an expert on the Blues also and I disagree. Our D and goaltending as they stand now are very solid. If we upgrade a little up front(we need a RW and LW for our scoring lines) we can easily win the division.

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08-07-2005, 12:20 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59
I'm an expert on the Blues also and I disagree. Our D and goaltending as they stand now are very solid. If we upgrade a little up front(we need a RW and LW for our scoring lines) we can easily win the division.

I get the same feeling. The Blues are one or two offensive players short of competing amongst the upper end of the division.

However, anything can happen. It's impossible to predict how these teams are going to play with their new rosters, coaching, etc.

At least by training camp, we should get a better idea on how the teams stack up.

Btw, I like the trade as a Blues fan (expert ) . I'd miss Sillinger the most.


Last edited by Guy Legend: 08-07-2005 at 01:15 PM.
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08-07-2005, 01:36 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59
We can make it Salvy and Weinrich but that is quite a bit of salary going your way.
Weinrich is a going to be a key players this upcoming season for the Blues, unless the Blues are getting a potential first line player or first round pick (both would be way over paying) I don't see Weinrich going anywhere. He is much more valuable to the Blues than he is to any other team IMO

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08-07-2005, 02:21 PM
  #19
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This proposal is bad for the Pens. Why would they give up skill up front for players that would barely find ice time on this team?

As was stated earlier, why would the Pens give up top 6 forward talent and a top 4 D-man for what would amount to 4th line forwards and a No 6 and 7 Dmen?????

They have built 2 top end lines, along with a 3rd line that can score and cover it's own end.....a good skating 3rd line. Their 4th line with Roy and Ryan V, coupled with a good defensive guy in Pirjeta is also in good shape.

Surovy will spend the year in the minors. He does not even need to be on the big club for 2 more seasons. That being said, the Pens would need to cut 2 more players off of their roster to get thsi deal done. So from the Pens perspective, they would be waiving 2 guys who they took time to develop.

If you want this deal to work, witch Surovy with Fata, and switch Walker with Backman (I know that hurts, but this deal doesn't help the Pens any other way).

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08-07-2005, 03:06 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig1

As was stated earlier, why would the Pens give up top 6 forward talent and a top 4 D-man for what would amount to 4th line forwards and a No 6 and 7 Dmen?????
Salvador is not a number 6 or 7 defenseman, he is a easily a top 4 and maybe better. He has been one of the top Blues defenders for years now on a team which has had MacInnis, Pronger, Backmen, Jackman, and Weinrich!!!

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08-07-2005, 03:10 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmanfan
Salvador is not a number 6 or 7 defenseman, he is a easily a top 4 and maybe better. He has been one of the top Blues defenders for years now on a team which has had MacInnis, Pronger, Backmen, Jackman, and Weinrich!!!
....and he has been behind them too.....and maybe even Khavanov also. He's a solid #5/6 guy.

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08-07-2005, 05:14 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig1
This proposal is bad for the Pens. Why would they give up skill up front for players that would barely find ice time on this team?

As was stated earlier, why would the Pens give up top 6 forward talent and a top 4 D-man for what would amount to 4th line forwards and a No 6 and 7 Dmen?????

They have built 2 top end lines, along with a 3rd line that can score and cover it's own end.....a good skating 3rd line. Their 4th line with Roy and Ryan V, coupled with a good defensive guy in Pirjeta is also in good shape.

Surovy will spend the year in the minors. He does not even need to be on the big club for 2 more seasons. That being said, the Pens would need to cut 2 more players off of their roster to get thsi deal done. So from the Pens perspective, they would be waiving 2 guys who they took time to develop.

If you want this deal to work, witch Surovy with Fata, and switch Walker with Backman (I know that hurts, but this deal doesn't help the Pens any other way).
I'd have to say Surovy would be pretty upset if he had to spend the year in the AHL. He put up pretty good numbers in his two previous NHL stints.

As for the Blues making the playoffs, I'm gonna go get my Kessel jersey soon

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08-07-2005, 05:28 PM
  #23
craig1
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Originally Posted by BlueBleeder
I'd have to say Surovy would be pretty upset if he had to spend the year in the AHL. He put up pretty good numbers in his two previous NHL stints.
He has to earn a spot. Right now, there is noone whom he could beat out to get a top 2 line role (he needs top 2 line role to be effective. He is a liability on 3rd or 4th line).

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08-08-2005, 05:20 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig1
....and he has been behind them too.....and maybe even Khavanov also. He's a solid #5/6 guy.
Right now Salvador is our #3 defenseman behind Brewer and Jackman. Backman might give him a run for his money though. That Khavanov is better then Salvador is laughable.

I also disagree with jackmanfan about Weinrich, I think he'll be on the 3rd pair.

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08-08-2005, 06:47 AM
  #25
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