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LA Kings looking at Markov

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02-04-2014, 02:34 PM
  #351
habtastic
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The thought of the Habs without Markov scares me. Yup, there was that one round in the 2010 playoffs, where Halak, Cammy et al. made up for it, and the other seasons when he was injured (when we went nowhere). He is such a huge presence on our team and I also wanted him to retire as a Hab. That said, I am willing to put sentimentality aside for one of the brightest spots for the Habs for the past 10-12 years. (Him and Koivu are in the same boat IMO).

IF we are going to trade him, we better come out with a huge win or something that justifies trading one of the smartest players in the league. We will suffer in the short term for sure. Only reason I can fathom trading him is because I do see a downward curve because of the knees. I don't know how we'll replace his vision, experience, passing, clutchness and leadership on the backend. The little things he does still have me in awe.

Definitely would have to be a 1st and a legit top 6 or maybe even top 3/2nd rd pick. Yes, that's how high I hold Markov in my esteem. Even top 6 is kind of weak if you consider some of the players in top 6 roles around the league. I mean a legit scorer, at least as prolific as Pacioretty.

Anyway, I also think this is all much ado about nothing at this point. It'll be a trade deadline deal if at all. But it's interesting, possibly good that MB is putting it out there to see what's coming up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
I've never seen Markov win a pinch. lol.
Not sure what world you're living in. He used to be the king of the backdoor play. Still tries it these days, but the shot's have either been blocked or stopped. He reads plays like nobody's business. Brains are still a top commodity, even if you've lost a step.

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Old
02-04-2014, 02:38 PM
  #352
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Why Clifford? We already have two fourth lines.

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Old
02-04-2014, 02:39 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
How is moving out a 35 year old offensive defenseman to make space for a young player who appears to be ready for a bigger role rebuilding?

If you can get something that helps your team for Markov you do it. We're not winning the cup this year and Clifford can help create space for our smaller players and Pearson can help Hamilton (which is vital for success to have a good development farm team) and the first can be used via trade if necessary to find more help.
Markov is still pretty good in his own end (just not when he pinches or is caught in transition). If he is paired with someone who can take the heavy lifting away, he can play a couple more years at this level.

Perfect scenario for him and an amazing luxury for a contender to have with the cap going up. They would probably pair him with Voynov. Kings big problem is moving the puck...they are a terrible passing team (as well as their PIMs problem). Becomes obvious when playing Chicago or Anaheim. One fumble and those teams are right on you. Markov would clean that up quickly.

Muzzin-Doughty
Markov-Voynov
Regehr-Martinez
Mitchell, Greene

They'd have to move a couple guys.

Powerplay pairings:
Markov-Doughty (would open up Doughty's shot)
Martinez-Voynov


This is all very depressing to think about...


Last edited by tinyzombies: 02-04-2014 at 02:49 PM.
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02-04-2014, 02:43 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Markov is still pretty good in his own end (just not when he pinches or is caught in transition). If he is paired with someone who can take the heavy lifting away, he can play several more years at this level.

Like I said, Markov-Greene would work well. Give him third pairing minutes and use him on the powerplay. Perfect scenario for him.
Subban 8M +
Gorges 3.9
Emelin 4.1
Markov at minimum 5.75 that he makes already.

That is far too much for an average defense corps. I would rather roll the dice and try to change the leadership group and get younger than roll with that. It's pretty obvious that that top 4 isn't going to win us a cup so why keep spinning the wheel? Sometimes you need to know when to fold a losing hand before you lose what you have for nothing.

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02-04-2014, 02:43 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
The thought of the Habs without Markov scares me. Yup, there was that one round in the 2010 playoffs, where Halak, Cammy et al. made up for it, and the other seasons when he was injured (when we went nowhere). He is such a huge presence on our team and I also wanted him to retire as a Hab. That said, I am willing to put sentimentality aside for one of the brightest spots for the Habs for the past 10-12 years. (Him and Koivu are in the same boat IMO).

IF we are going to trade him, we better come out with a huge win or something that justifies trading one of the smartest players in the league. We will suffer in the short term for sure. Only reason I can fathom trading him is because I do see a downward curve because of the knees. I don't know how we'll replace his vision, experience, passing, clutchness and leadership on the backend. The little things he does still have me in awe.

Definitely would have to be a 1st and a legit top 6 or maybe even top 3/2nd rd pick. Yes, that's how high I hold Markov in my esteem. Even top 6 is kind of weak if you consider some of the players in top 6 roles around the league. I mean a legit scorer, at least as prolific as Pacioretty.

Anyway, I also think this is all much ado about nothing at this point. It'll be a trade deadline deal if at all. But it's interesting, possibly good that MB is putting it out there to see what's coming up.



Not sure what world you're living in. He used to be the king of the backdoor play. Still tries it these days, but the shot's have either been blocked or stopped. He reads plays like nobody's business. Brains are still a top commodity, even if you've lost a step.
You know what scares me the most? The thought of signing a 35+ contract (4 years +) to a guy with a huge injury history, who is on the decline physically.

I'll keep Markov, but for 4 or 5 years? I'd rather start building a contender for tomorrow instead.

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Old
02-04-2014, 02:45 PM
  #356
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We're going to lose Markov either way, but I'd take a good trade over the aging process.

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02-04-2014, 02:49 PM
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Didn't Sundin refuse to be traded? Instead of getting assets for him and another player or two (who also refused a trade, if I remember, correctly) they got nothing, not even a decent draft pick because they didn't suck enough to get one. That was just a sad, overall situation, but I'm not a Leaf fan so it didn't bother me.
Lol its even funnier than that.. i believe he refused to go to detroit, and they went on to win the cup that year anyway. take that selfish mats.

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02-04-2014, 02:49 PM
  #358
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Again, i say yes to that package.

Without Markov, we still have a chance to be in the playoff AND even if we have Markov, we won't be winning the stanley cup this year.

Markov isnt part of our futur.

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02-04-2014, 02:51 PM
  #359
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Moving Markov with the current state of the defense is essentially a rebuild move. The habs don't have the horses on D to cover the hole Markov will leave on the back-end. Beaulieu and Tinordi will be good, but there is no way they will be able to offer anything close to what Markov has brought, even despite his decline, which is overstated btw.

He will bring a good return sure, but it won't fill the hole. The team will take a big hit, not enough to be a bottom feeder, but I would be surprised if this current team sans Markov is a playoff team.

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02-04-2014, 02:52 PM
  #360
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Markov really wants to stay in Montreal from what I've heard. They might be able to get him to sign for less. He probably won't be effective by the time the habs prospects mature, though, unless he pulls a Chelios.

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02-04-2014, 02:54 PM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
You know what scares me the most? The thought of signing a 35+ contract (4 years +) to a guy with a huge injury history, who is on the decline physically.

I'll keep Markov, but for 4 or 5 years? I'd rather start building a contender for tomorrow instead.
What if MB signed him for 2 years? Just asking, how would you feel about that? I feel like Markov might make an exception for the Habs. Of course he's trying to lock up his last contract, but I can see him asking for the same money he currently has for a shorter time. Our D is nowhere NEAR ready. In two years, I think they would be. Beaulieu has looked great, but to compare him to Markov (which some are doing) is ridiculous.

Markov has had some bad games, but he's also had some terrific ones. It's not only PK who's helping make this team look even slightly competent. Markov is a huge part of our team. I agree that signing him long term for a lot would be the wrong move, that's why (as I said) I'm ready to put sentimentality aside. I just don't want to lose a trade that involves one of our most valuable assets. We need a LOT for him. I'm not as critical of MB as most, but now I am getting a little nervous.

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02-04-2014, 02:55 PM
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Moving Markov with the current state of the defense is essentially a rebuild move. The habs don't have the horses on D to cover the hole Markov will leave on the back-end. Beaulieu and Tinordi will be good, but there is no way they will be able to offer anything close to what Markov has brought, even despite his decline, which is overstated btw.

He will bring a good return sure, but it won't fill the hole. The team will take a big hit, not enough to be a bottom feeder, but I would be surprised this current team sans Markov is a playoff team.
Exactly. We were in the cellar without him last time and there is no one comparable available who can fill that hole. Nobody the Kings would offer could do it, obviously.

If we were going to tank, we should have done it last summer in advance of this draft...

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02-04-2014, 02:56 PM
  #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Moving Markov with the current state of the defense is essentially a rebuild move. The habs don't have the horses on D to cover the hole Markov will leave on the back-end. Beaulieu and Tinordi will be good, but there is no way they will be able to offer anything close to what Markov has brought, even despite his decline, which is overstated btw.

He will bring a good return sure, but it won't fill the hole. The team will take a big hit, not enough to be a bottom feeder, but I would be surprised this current team sans Markov is a playoff team.
Totally agree.

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02-04-2014, 02:56 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by dcyhabs View Post
Markov really wants to stay in Montreal from what I've heard. They might be able to get him to sign for less. He probably won't be effective by the time the habs prospects mature, though, unless he pulls a Chelios.
Chelios did not have major surgeries on his knees, I don't think...and he was a beast to keep himself in game shape for so long....

Trading Markov is a tough one, but might be best for the organization...we may be scratching at the surface as to why he fired his agent earlier in the season...does he already have a cheap deal in his back pocket from Bergy, so he doesn't get traded??

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02-04-2014, 02:58 PM
  #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Moving Markov with the current state of the defense is essentially a rebuild move. The habs don't have the horses on D to cover the hole Markov will leave on the back-end. Beaulieu and Tinordi will be good, but there is no way they will be able to offer anything close to what Markov has brought, even despite his decline, which is overstated btw.

He will bring a good return sure, but it won't fill the hole. The team will take a big hit, not enough to be a bottom feeder, but I would be surprised this current team sans Markov is a playoff team.
...right now, with Markov, we're a bubble team, but we have lots of young potential in the wings...potential that is not likely to be reached in Markov's time...why not make a move now, suffer a bit for a year or two, and reap the benefits of trading Markov (I'm hoping Toffoli) in a few years when our own young talent is in it's prime??...

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02-04-2014, 03:00 PM
  #366
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Markov really wants to stay in Montreal from what I've heard. They might be able to get him to sign for less. He probably won't be effective by the time the habs prospects mature, though, unless he pulls a Chelios.
That's very possible. It took him 10 years to adapt to Canada and Montreal. I don't see him adapting quickly to a new team at the other end of the Continent. The guy is way too shy and introvert.

And if Markov leaves, what will happen to Emelin who is even shyer and more introvert ?

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02-04-2014, 03:00 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
...right now, with Markov, we're a bubble team, but we have lots of young potential in the wings...potential that is not likely to be reached in Markov's time...why not make a move now, suffer a bit for a year or two, and reap the benefits of trading Markov (I'm hoping Toffoli) in a few years when our own young talent is in it's prime??...
Toffoli is not the greatest skater... he does have a release though and seems to get hungrier around the net.

Not sure LA would trade him unless they had another deal for Cammy set up (another rumor around here) and could dump salary on the blueline too.

The feeling around here is that LA is a contender if they can find some scoring. I'm not so sure tho... they can't seem to shrink the rink against Anaheim or Chicago.

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02-04-2014, 03:01 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Habstraction View Post
That's very possible. It took him 10 years to adapt to Canada and Montreal. I don't see him adapting quickly to a new team at the other end of the Continent. The guy is way too shy and introvert.

And if Markov leaves, what will happen to Emelin who is even shyer and more introvert ?
He would live in Manhattan Beach like the other players and his d-partner would probably be a Russian (Voynov). Hardly a tough adjustment. And he'd probably stay cuz Doughty would get the tough minutes and the third pairing can handle big guys. His load would be a lot lighter.

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02-04-2014, 03:03 PM
  #369
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Losses are losses. They scored TWO goals in these two games. How can you win games ?
The scoring chances were pretty even in those 2 games, we competed hard and should have deserved better, we keep playing like that and we will win more than we lose..

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02-04-2014, 03:05 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
...right now, with Markov, we're a bubble team, but we have lots of young potential in the wings...potential that is not likely to be reached in Markov's time...why not make a move now, suffer a bit for a year or two, and reap the benefits of trading Markov (I'm hoping Toffoli) in a few years when our own young talent is in it's prime??...
Canadiens are on the bubble now because they have ****** coaches who can't identify key players and exploit their talents.

No reason for the Canadiens to be struggling as much with the roster they have. Coaches deliberately choose to play worse players hoping that the team will play better. They also deliberately choose to unsuccessfully employ the same strategies and units in the same situations over and over and over again hoping that one day it will magically click.


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02-04-2014, 03:06 PM
  #371
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Canadiens are on the bubble now because they have ****** coaches who can't identify key players and exploit their talents.

No reason for the Canadiens to be struggling as much with the roster they had. Coaches deliberately choose to play worse players hoping that the team will play better. They also deliberately choose to unsuccessfully employ the same strategies and units in the same situations over and over and over again hoping that one day it will magically click.
I think we are a better team playing puck possession, but can't do it all year because we'll get beat up, so they've been trying to sneak by with a defensive scheme until the playoffs. That's what I've been hoping anyway.

LA looks like a team that is completely bored with puck possession.

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02-04-2014, 03:11 PM
  #372
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Tanner Pearson for Markov straight up is a fair deal.. hes getting nearly point per game in AHL and could do the same or better with Montreal.

Add Clifford (Potentially Moen's replacement) and a low 1st rounder... we would win that trade so fast.

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Jagr
Pearson - Galchenyuk - Gallagher
Moen - Bournival - Prust
Clifford - White - Weise

One can only dream for this off season

I have a strong sense based on his junior records that he will become a 30+ goal scorer..

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02-04-2014, 03:12 PM
  #373
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Trading Markov is a NO BRAINER not because he's done but because you make a verbal deal that you will re-sign him in July. It's like we get a pick and a top prospect FOR FREE! It's still worth the risk of him not re-singing with us.

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02-04-2014, 03:13 PM
  #374
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Markov for Toffoli & Clifford

DD and 1st for Kulikov.

Gionta for Despres

Moen and 4th for Smith-Pelley

Briere and Bourque for anything.

Dare to dream.

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02-04-2014, 03:14 PM
  #375
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Trading Markov is a NO BRAINER not because he's done but because you make a verbal deal that you will re-sign him in July. It's like we get a pick and a top prospect FOR FREE! It's still worth the risk of him not re-singing with us.
Only disadvantage of trading Markov is that our chances at the cup this year will be diluted (Markov > Pearson for this year's playoffs obviously).

But over the long term and looking at cap-hit, Pearson is the bomb.

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