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Proposal Thread: Trying It Again

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Old
02-27-2014, 09:40 AM
  #801
CornKicker
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in response to the rumor in the other thread trading gagner without a clear plan on who will replace him PLAYING #2 C for not just this season but the future is a giant mistake. Especially for toffoli another young winger and a 4th line plug. Drafting a C this year is a great idea, for the #2 C spot in 3-5years. Peoples irrational hate for gagner are making them mong out and propose things that are crazy. Im all for upgrading the #2 C position with a better defensive player with hopefully a bit more size but to trade gagner without having a replacement in hand is borderline insane.

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02-27-2014, 09:41 AM
  #802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
The rangers wouldn't move richards. That's one of the main reasons St.Louis would want to go to the NYR.
other than the fact he lives in CT of course.

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02-27-2014, 09:54 AM
  #803
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MSL lives in Connecticut? What the hell. Seems random.

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02-27-2014, 10:29 AM
  #804
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There is zero chance that they trade Toffoli alone for Gagner.
I do agree that Clifford for Gagner alone is a crap trade but unfortunately, i can't imagine that Gagner's value is much more than Clifford when taking into account his contract which is why i think this is a bad time to trade him.

He has played better lately so i'd rather ride it out for the season and deal him in the offseason when better offers are likely to come along. There should be no rush in dealing him unless MacT thinks that he's a complete black hole of suck and just wants to dump his salary as soon as possible.

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02-27-2014, 10:48 AM
  #805
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MacT talked about "getting our picks back".. Clifford + Edm 3rd 2014 for Gagner could be a possibility. Gags usually turns it up at the end of season so lets se how he starts after this break. Hopefully he heats up and increases his value.

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Old
02-27-2014, 11:08 AM
  #806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTIR View Post
MacT talked about "getting our picks back".. Clifford + Edm 3rd 2014 for Gagner could be a possibility. Gags usually turns it up at the end of season so lets se how he starts after this break. Hopefully he heats up and increases his value.
Has anyone raised the possibility MacT might after the Oilers' original picks as a set up for an offer sheet?

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02-27-2014, 11:10 AM
  #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTIR View Post
MacT talked about "getting our picks back".. Clifford + Edm 3rd 2014 for Gagner could be a possibility. Gags usually turns it up at the end of season so lets se how he starts after this break. Hopefully he heats up and increases his value.
If that's all we get I'm all aboard the fire MacT bandwagon.

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Old
02-27-2014, 11:15 AM
  #808
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So Staples wrote about the Kesler situation this morning and in that piece it says that Vancouver would want a 24-25ish year old centre back in the deal.
Well, Edmonton just seems to have exactly that and are trying to trade him.

He goes on to say that Gagner + Klefbom + pick would be okay for him, he wouldn't want to add the 2014 1st, Marcinin or Nurse instead of Klefbom though... I would be okay with Marcinin leaving.

So I would propose:
Gagner
Klefbom/Marcinin/really any prospect but Nurse
2nd (most likely a pick we get at the trade deadline)

The big thing here is that Kesler only has two years left in his deal..

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Old
02-27-2014, 11:15 AM
  #809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Has anyone raised the possibility MacT might after the Oilers' original picks as a set up for an offer sheet?
I like where your head is at. I hope MacT's is in the general vicinity.

Sending out an offer sheet would most definitely qualify as a bold move.

Does anyone have an idea of some "B" level RFA's coming up this year? Obviously it's not worth targeting "A" level RFA's ala PK Subban as pretty much anything we send their way would be matched right away. But what about the next tier guys?

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02-27-2014, 11:16 AM
  #810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CornKicker View Post
in response to the rumor in the other thread trading gagner without a clear plan on who will replace him PLAYING #2 C for not just this season but the future is a giant mistake. Especially for toffoli another young winger and a 4th line plug. Drafting a C this year is a great idea, for the #2 C spot in 3-5years. Peoples irrational hate for gagner are making them mong out and propose things that are crazy. Im all for upgrading the #2 C position with a better defensive player with hopefully a bit more size but to trade gagner without having a replacement in hand is borderline insane.
Seriously, what is the issue with finishing the final 20 games without a #2C? We lose more games and pick 1st instead of potentially 5th last? Isn't that better for us in the long run? McT then gets a whole offseason to address the #2C. I agree that the 2014 draft pick should not be pencilled in as the #2C next season, regardless of who it is, but there will be a lot of other options out there.

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02-27-2014, 11:23 AM
  #811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowDangles View Post
So Staples wrote about the Kesler situation this morning and in that piece it says that Vancouver would want a 24-25ish year old centre back in the deal.
Well, Edmonton just seems to have exactly that and are trying to trade him.

He goes on to say that Gagner + Klefbom + pick would be okay for him, he wouldn't want to add the 2014 1st, Marcinin or Nurse instead of Klefbom though... I would be okay with Marcinin leaving.

So I would propose:
Gagner
Klefbom/Marcinin/really any prospect but Nurse
2nd (most likely a pick we get at the trade deadline)

The big thing here is that Kesler only has two years left in his deal..
I doubt they would bite, for two reasons.

1. A lot of teams would pay more
2. Inter-division treading; We would need to overpay

I am willing to over-pay for a play like Kesler as he is exactly what we need.

I would spice up your deal:

Gagner
Pitlick
Klefbom/Marincin (Whoever they prefer)
1st 2015

for

Kesler
Some prospect/AHLer to even out contracts somewhat

I know giving up the 1st in 2015 would be a huge risk considering it is a deep draft and of course the possibility of the Mcdavid lottery but at some point this team needs to start taking those risks to be better now.

1-2 punch of Kesler and RNH would be one of the top 10 in the league, especially as RNH gets older.

EDIT: Some may say Kesler is getting to the back-end of his prime, but I'd be willing to bet he's got 3-6 more years depending on injuries. If you think about it that 3-6 years is really the window of opportunity for the Oilers to make a cup run. As after that time frame, Hall will be the age Kesler is now.

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Old
02-27-2014, 11:27 AM
  #812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djdub View Post
I like where your head is at. I hope MacT's is in the general vicinity.

Sending out an offer sheet would most definitely qualify as a bold move.

Does anyone have an idea of some "B" level RFA's coming up this year? Obviously it's not worth targeting "A" level RFA's ala PK Subban as pretty much anything we send their way would be matched right away. But what about the next tier guys?
ryan oreilly
braden Schenn
patrik berglund
derek brassard
chris Tanev
chris Kreider
jaden Schwartz
jake gardiner
brenden dillon
reilly smith

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Old
02-27-2014, 11:27 AM
  #813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djdub View Post
I like where your head is at. I hope MacT's is in the general vicinity.

Sending out an offer sheet would most definitely qualify as a bold move.

Does anyone have an idea of some "B" level RFA's coming up this year? Obviously it's not worth targeting "A" level RFA's ala PK Subban as pretty much anything we send their way would be matched right away. But what about the next tier guys?
Anything? What if it was something in the area of $10M a year? You'd have to think that would make some folks blink.

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Old
02-27-2014, 11:28 AM
  #814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponokanocker View Post
Seriously, what is the issue with finishing the final 20 games without a #2C? We lose more games and pick 1st instead of potentially 5th last? Isn't that better for us in the long run? McT then gets a whole offseason to address the #2C. I agree that the 2014 draft pick should not be pencilled in as the #2C next season, regardless of who it is, but there will be a lot of other options out there.
what if mact strikes out on #2 C's and we start the year without one just like we did this year with the injuries?

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02-27-2014, 11:34 AM
  #815
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Could see:

Kesler for Kadri and Gardiner.
Kesler for Henrique and Larsson.
Kesler for Couturier and Hartnell.

I certainly think there's a market for him.

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Old
02-27-2014, 11:35 AM
  #816
ponokanocker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CornKicker View Post
what if mact strikes out on #2 C's and we start the year without one just like we did this year with the injuries?
If he's that incompetant, he should be fired.

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02-27-2014, 11:35 AM
  #817
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People seem to be reading too much into the word "our" with our picks. I didn't get the sense at all that he wanted the Oilers picks in particular, but just the picks, in general, that they had already traded away.

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02-27-2014, 11:37 AM
  #818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Has anyone raised the possibility MacT might after the Oilers' original picks as a set up for an offer sheet?
We can't go back in time and make an offer sheet on July 5th 2013.

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02-27-2014, 11:38 AM
  #819
Moose Coleman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doulos View Post
People seem to be reading too much into the word "our" with our picks. I didn't get the sense at all that he wanted the Oilers picks in particular, but just the picks, in general, that they had already traded away.
I was just putting it out there as a thought. I'm sure he's looking for any early pick.

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02-27-2014, 11:38 AM
  #820
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So hypothetically MSL, goes to the Rangers does he demand a trade when they buyout Richards this summer?

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02-27-2014, 11:38 AM
  #821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CornKicker View Post
what if mact strikes out on #2 C's and we start the year without one just like we did this year with the injuries?
MacT shouldn't strike out when we have more then enough highly skilled offensive wingers that hold some value.

It shouldn't matter if we use Gagner for the next 20 games or someone else but striking out would be going into next year with RNH and Gagner as our top six centers.

I agree with you though that sticking another 18 year old kid in that slot isn't going to fix anything for the next couple years

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Old
02-27-2014, 11:40 AM
  #822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djdub View Post
I like where your head is at. I hope MacT's is in the general vicinity.

Sending out an offer sheet would most definitely qualify as a bold move.

Does anyone have an idea of some "B" level RFA's coming up this year? Obviously it's not worth targeting "A" level RFA's ala PK Subban as pretty much anything we send their way would be matched right away. But what about the next tier guys?
According to thee numbers a offer sheet under 8.4million would be 2 1sts, 2nd and a 3rd. (This is based on the total contract value being divided by the lowest of 5 years or the term of the contract)

5 years @ 42M would be a great offer sheet for Subban. That's a pretty bold statement.

If I'm wrong, someone correct me.

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02-27-2014, 11:41 AM
  #823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Anything? What if it was something in the area of $10M a year? You'd have to think that would make some folks blink.
Would you want one player, not named Shea Weber eating that much of your cap?

I also, don't know how PK Subban would handle being the top paid player in the league. Would that go to his head? To me, he seems like a player who can get a "big head", given the opportunity.

What's the compensation for a deal like that? Two 1st's, a 2nd and a 3rd, isn't it? That takes away a lot of our trading pieces in up-coming years. We are still looking for a #2 C.

If your giving that up for She Weber, Doughty, Pietrangelo, sure. I'm not sure I'm ready to put PK Subban in that class of defenseman, yet.

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02-27-2014, 12:20 PM
  #824
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Wouldn't the compensation be for 2015 picks since the RFA signing period is after the draft?

---

Also, a couple more 'B' RFAs that haven't been mentioned:
Robin Lehner
Vladimir Sobotka
Devante Smith-Pelly
Brandon Sutter
Justin Faulk
Lars Eller

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02-27-2014, 12:21 PM
  #825
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
i'd be 100% behind trading gagner and signing a UFA #2 C in the off-season, except this years UFA crop is dreadful.... replacing gagner with reinhart is a downgrade next year, and is simply repeating the same mistakes this club has been making for almost a decade
Who says that Reinhart or Bennett would be a downgrade? RNH is his rookie season was already an upgrade on Gagner, why is it a given that they'd be downgrades on Gagner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
if the other option was clifford on the 4th line wing and arcobello as the 2nd line C, then yes, i'd *MUCH* rather have gagner back ... its not even close

clifford is a 4th liner who likely won't be in the league in a couple years
Arcobello might not give you the same amount of offense but he is better at draws, better defensively, wins more puck battles and is a hell of a lot cheaper. I would have no issue playing him and dealing Gagner. The bottom line is that neither is a long term fit here so MacT needs to go shopping for an actual 2C, not a 2C in the offensive zone only. As for Clifford any players career could end in short order, that said I'd rather add a player like that to our bottom 6 than have a player like Sam in our top 6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Gagner himself isnt a viable 2C option. So yes, he is indeed redundant.
Bingo, trading Gagner does 2 things, it forces management to actually look for a better fit at 2C and it clears cap space and rids ourselves of one of the easiest players to play against in the NHL and one of the worst defensive sieves.

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