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Old
02-18-2014, 02:26 PM
  #1
HometownHockey
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Oilers: Four centres MacTavish should target

Oilers: Four centres MacTavish should target

With the NHL Trade Deadline roughly two weeks away, you can bet Edmonton Oilers general manager Craig MacTavish is a busy man. One can argue if now is the right time for the Oilers to move Sam Gagner but one thing this season has made abundantly clear, #89 isn’t the answer as this team’s second line centre. With that being the case, four names that should interest the Oilers GM as potential replacements are Sean Couturier, Jason Spezza, Paul Stastny and Travis Zajac.

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http://www.ourhometown.ca/hockey/HH0462.php


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Old
02-18-2014, 02:49 PM
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We need size + grit + faceoffs + scoring

Stasny: meh + no + yes + yes
Zajac: yes + no + yes + meh
Couturier: yes + no + no + meh
Spezza: yes + no + yes + yes

Out of these 4 Spezza seems to fit the bill the most.

Top C to target IMO:
B.Schenn : yes, yes, meh, yes

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Old
02-18-2014, 02:51 PM
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ResilientBeast
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Zajac - Doubt NJ trades him
Couturier - See Zajc
Stastny - Not really needed
Spezza - See Stastny

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Old
02-18-2014, 03:19 PM
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What a terrible article. Feel like i just read a post on the trade proposal forum

Zajac - First of all he has a no trade clause so that crushes any hope of a trade. Second of all Zajac right now its pretty much the Devils best player and it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever to trade him under almost any circumstances.

Stastny - My argument for Stastny is simple. If the Avs can't afford his price tag. We probably can't either. I know the financial situation of the Avs is different than ours however, we can't be dumping 6 to 7 million (that's the rumored ask from the Stastny camp) on a marginal 1st line center when we have so many other holes to fill elsewhere.

Couturier - Makes sense in theory but as mentioned in the article you will create holes elsewhere by trading for Couturier (Eberle?). So its a sideways move at best and will require more rebuilding and waiting for the team to get better at other positions.

Spezza - He can't play with Michalek anymore. He can't play with Ryan. Injuries have caught up with him and he hasn't shown that he's back at the level that made him one of the best centers in the league the last few years. He's on pace for 64 pts and a -33 this season. Oh yeah he makes 7 million and is a UFA at the end of next season. We shouldn't be giving up significant assets for a guy like that.

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02-18-2014, 03:40 PM
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What a terrible article. Feel like i just read a post on the trade proposal forum

Stastny - My argument for Stastny is simple. If the Avs can't afford his price tag. We probably can't either. I know the financial situation of the Avs is different than ours however, we can't be dumping 6 to 7 million (that's the rumored ask from the Stastny camp) on a marginal 1st line center when we have so many other holes to fill elsewhere.

Couturier - Makes sense in theory but as mentioned in the article you will create holes elsewhere by trading for Couturier (Eberle?). So its a sideways move at best and will require more rebuilding and waiting for the team to get better at other positions.

Spezza - He can't play with Michalek anymore. He can't play with Ryan. Injuries have caught up with him and he hasn't shown that he's back at the level that made him one of the best centers in the league the last few years. He's on pace for 64 pts and a -33 this season. Oh yeah he makes 7 million and is a UFA at the end of next season. We shouldn't be giving up significant assets for a guy like that.
The article is not terrible.. Just because it looks like a wishful fan making a post on these boards does not make it aweful.

There is more to pricetag when it comes to Avs and Statsny.. They have 3 other top 2 Cs on that club. ROR, Duchene and Mackinnon.. Oilers have RNH and who?

Couturier for Eberle isnt really a sideways move.. It is much easier to find wingers than finding a big young C to shore up the team down the middle. Re sign Hemsky or bring in a player like Brouwer or Kulemin or Stewart.

Spezza with his dip in, health issues and contract status would not cost a lot to acquire. He wont come cheap but getting him won gut this team.

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Old
02-18-2014, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResilientBeast View Post
Zajac - Doubt NJ trades him
Couturier - See Zajc
Stastny - Not really needed
Spezza - See Stastny
Spezza not really needed? When its a player of Spezza's caliber, they are always needed.

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Old
02-18-2014, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by LTIR View Post
The article is not terrible.. Just because it looks like a wishful fan making a post on these boards does not make it aweful.

There is more to pricetag when it comes to Avs and Statsny.. They have 3 other top 2 Cs on that club. ROR, Duchene and Mackinnon.. Oilers have RNH and who?

Couturier for Eberle isnt really a sideways move.. It is much easier to find wingers than finding a big young C to shore up the team down the middle. Re sign Hemsky or bring in a player like Brouwer or Kulemin or Stewart.

Spezza with his dip in, health issues and contract status would not cost a lot to acquire. He wont come cheap but getting him won gut this team.
I can't see how we can afford Stastny over the long term at 6 to 7 million / 7 years or whatever huge contract he's going to sign over the summer. We have no defense and no legitimate #1 goalie. At some point that contract will be a cap killer when we need to resign other younger players coming off RFA deals.

I don't disagree with the sentiment that Couturier would go a long ways to sure up our center ice position. However i don't think giving up on a player like Eberle is the right course of action.


Vanek got a 1st a 2nd and Matt Moulson for the Sabres. If the Sens wanted that sure i would do it. However in reality the Sens have been pretty clear that they are in a win now mode. See LeBrun's article:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-to-make-deals

For the Sens it makes no sense to trade Spezza as they can't replace him easily with free agency or with other players in their system.

Therefore, i think the only way you get Spezza is at the trade deadline next year if the Sens season implode and they are out of the playoffs and the Oilers are in a playoff position. Both are extreme reaches imo.

The article is more than wishful thinking its mostly unrealistic speculation.

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02-18-2014, 03:55 PM
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Spezza not really needed? When its a player of Spezza's caliber, they are always needed.
this

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Old
02-18-2014, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResilientBeast View Post
Zajac - Doubt NJ trades him
Couturier - See Zajc
Stastny - Not really needed
Spezza - See Stastny
Or really? Who do we have that is waiting in the wings similar to Stastny, or any of these guys for that matter?

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02-18-2014, 04:10 PM
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spezza would be perfect to slide into 1A and let RNH have a few years to evolve his game instead of being thrown into the fire

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02-18-2014, 04:16 PM
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Travis Zajac is basically a 30 year old Sam Gagner. If we're going to go out and weigh ourselves down with that contract, why don't we just wait out Gagner's lull in productivity instead of wasting more assets on remedial replacements?

Couturier would cost us an arm and a leg and doesn't provide us with the scoring we'd need from a #2C in this division.

Spezza is a bonafide #1. So that won't happen.

And Stastny will probably command a $7.5M AAV contract on July 1st. So he's a possibility, but a risk.

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02-18-2014, 04:19 PM
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Travis Zajac is basically a 30 year old Sam Gagner. If we're going to go out and weigh ourselves down with that contract, why don't we just wait out Gagner's lull in productivity instead of wasting more assets on remedial replacements?

Couturier would cost us an arm and a leg and doesn't provide us with the scoring we'd need from a #2C in this division.

Spezza is a bonafide #1. So that won't happen.

And Stastny will probably command a $7.5M AAV contract on July 1st. So he's a possibility, but a risk.
Pretty good at shooting every thing down..What's your solution to the 2C position for next season and beyond?

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02-18-2014, 04:24 PM
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Travis Zajac is basically a 30 year old Sam Gagner. If we're going to go out and weigh ourselves down with that contract, why don't we just wait out Gagner's lull in productivity instead of wasting more assets on remedial replacements?

Couturier would cost us an arm and a leg and doesn't provide us with the scoring we'd need from a #2C in this division.

Spezza is a bonafide #1. So that won't happen.

And Stastny will probably command a $7.5M AAV contract on July 1st. So he's a possibility, but a risk.
7.5 was a big risk in 2007 but not in 2014. 10% of the cap isn't bad for a 1C.

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02-18-2014, 04:31 PM
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Pretty good at shooting every thing down..What's your solution to the 2C position for next season and beyond?
Not blowing a tonne of assets on high profile players. Especially when we're seriously considering moving the same piece we're looking at for pennies on the dollar.

We're likely seeing the last of Ales Hemsky and Sam Gagner in Oiler silks and "sources say" they aren't worth their weight in ****.

Ask yourself how much each of those four players are going to command as a potential return. Is that a reasonable management of assets?

Fix the defense before you fix anything else on this team.

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7.5 was a big risk in 2007 but not in 2014. 10% of the cap isn't bad for a 1C.
I would not be upset if drove a dumptruck full of money to Stastny's house on July 1st.

But giving him that kind of money may come back to bite us when we're re-upping players down the road.

$6M is a good number. $7.5M is pushing it.

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02-18-2014, 04:42 PM
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I can't see how we can afford Stastny over the long term at 6 to 7 million / 7 years or whatever huge contract he's going to sign over the summer. We have no defense and no legitimate #1 goalie. At some point that contract will be a cap killer when we need to resign other younger players coming off RFA deals.

I don't disagree with the sentiment that Couturier would go a long ways to sure up our center ice position. However i don't think giving up on a player like Eberle is the right course of action.


Vanek got a 1st a 2nd and Matt Moulson for the Sabres. If the Sens wanted that sure i would do it. However in reality the Sens have been pretty clear that they are in a win now mode. See LeBrun's article:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-to-make-deals

For the Sens it makes no sense to trade Spezza as they can't replace him easily with free agency or with other players in their system.

Therefore, i think the only way you get Spezza is at the trade deadline next year if the Sens season implode and they are out of the playoffs and the Oilers are in a playoff position. Both are extreme reaches imo.

The article is more than wishful thinking its mostly unrealistic speculation.
Our ownership has been one of the cheapest in the past history when it comes to spending actual dollars on the players.. This has been masked by caphits of ELC in past but it is about time we started spending near the cap. At deadline the Oilers could take on 30M in contracts and still be under the cap.
Throwing 6Mx7 at a player like Statsny would not kill us..

There is no 7M Dman available this offseason.. and guys like PEtry and J.Schultz wont be commanding big raises after the play this season. For goalies.. we should be able to find a decent for around 4M if not cheaper. Scrivens might command more if he continues to play great but the Oilers have most of its core locked up and still has 33M of cap space going forward.

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02-18-2014, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by LTIR View Post
We need size + grit + faceoffs + scoring

Stasny: meh + no + yes + yes
Zajac: yes + no + yes + meh
Couturier: yes + no + no + meh
Spezza: yes + no + yes + yes

Out of these 4 Spezza seems to fit the bill the most.

Top C to target IMO:
B.Schenn : yes, yes, meh, yes
I don't really see the point in having size and grit as two of our needs. Sooner see a size/grit and then a defensive awareness category.

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02-18-2014, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Fixed to Ruin View Post
I can't see how we can afford Stastny over the long term at 6 to 7 million / 7 years or whatever huge contract he's going to sign over the summer. We have no defense and no legitimate #1 goalie. At some point that contract will be a cap killer when we need to resign other younger players coming off RFA deals.

I don't disagree with the sentiment that Couturier would go a long ways to sure up our center ice position. However i don't think giving up on a player like Eberle is the right course of action.


Vanek got a 1st a 2nd and Matt Moulson for the Sabres. If the Sens wanted that sure i would do it. However in reality the Sens have been pretty clear that they are in a win now mode. See LeBrun's article:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-to-make-deals

For the Sens it makes no sense to trade Spezza as they can't replace him easily with free agency or with other players in their system.

Therefore, i think the only way you get Spezza is at the trade deadline next year if the Sens season implode and they are out of the playoffs and the Oilers are in a playoff position. Both are extreme reaches imo.

The article is more than wishful thinking its mostly unrealistic speculation.
Sens are pretty much done with Spezza.. They had a Sens analyst on 1260 saying the team plays better with him out of the lineup. If you check the main boards a lot of Sens fans are also done with him and are happy with Turris\Zibanejad\Smith down the middle with Pageau and Lazar not too far behind.

OTT trading Spezza is not as unrealsitic as you think.

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02-18-2014, 04:55 PM
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I don't really see the point in having size and grit as two of our needs. Sooner see a size/grit and then a defensive awareness category.
cant lump size and grit into one category.. Paajarvi had size but isnt what we wanted.
For the same reason we can rule out Zajac and Spezza as ideal options. Couturier isnt ideal either because he doesnt have grit.

ideal player for me is someone like J.Staal or B.Schenn .. Skilled guys that are also willing to bump some bodies to open up ice for linemates.

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Old
02-18-2014, 05:09 PM
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Sens are pretty much done with Spezza.. They had a Sens analyst on 1260 saying the team plays better with him out of the lineup. If you check the main boards a lot of Sens fans are also done with him and are happy with Turris\Zibanejad\Smith down the middle with Pageau and Lazar not too far behind.

OTT trading Spezza is not as unrealsitic as you think.
I did check the Sens board, more specifically the Spezza thread and there is no evidence that the Sens are "done" with him. The thread is mostly 50/50 for and against Spezza. Most of the detractors are just complaining about his poor play especially in the defensive end.

Maybe you should read this article about Spezza. It brings up almost every point why he won't be traded.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=443058

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02-18-2014, 05:11 PM
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Ugh you don't get what hes saying, if we have Hall, Nuge, Yak, Schultz, Perron etc how are we going to afford +7 million for Stastny, it would be nice to have him but eventually we wouldn't be able to keep these players, yes the cap is going up but as we get more and more of our young kids improving those players will ask for a lot more and that 7 million will be pretty scary when hes +33 and our kids are in their prime asking for 7-8 million.

#1. Boon Jenner: Young, gritty and skilled and is still considered to be developing. CBJ have depth through the middle and he can be had for cheap compared to other options.

#2. Brayden Schenn: Same player as Jenner just 2 years older and has a lot of NHL experience as well as playing very well in last years playoffs. But from what ive seen Philly are looking for defense in return which we don't have, it would take a lot to pry him out of there.

#3: Colin Wilson: Hes not really super physical or gritty but hes a big body with skill who would flourish in an offensive system and has learned a lot being in Trotz' system and would be cheaper than Schenn

#4: Dave Bolland: Hes been stuck behind a lot of centers his career and played a shut down role really well, if Toronto cant meet his contract demands we could get him for cheap or wait till FA and hope he signs here.


Honorable mention: 2014 Draft: I only make a trade for a 2c at the draft, if Ekblad isn't available there's a good chance Sam Bennett is, there's our #2 right there. We could possibly trade down and draft Connor Bleackley who looks really great in red deer but may or may not take a bit to develop, hard to say.


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Old
02-18-2014, 05:15 PM
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Pretty good at shooting every thing down..What's your solution to the 2C position for next season and beyond?
I like Eller, Legwand, Craig Smith, Brassard, Jokinen, Berglund, and Toffoli. Most of these guys are off season targets. I am guessing that Mact uses the trade deadline to acquire assets to get this done.

The assets are prospects, picks, and cap space

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02-18-2014, 05:24 PM
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I can't see how we can afford Stastny over the long term at 6 to 7 million / 7 years or whatever huge contract he's going to sign over the summer. We have no defense and no legitimate #1 goalie. At some point that contract will be a cap killer when we need to resign other younger players coming off RFA deals.

I don't disagree with the sentiment that Couturier would go a long ways to sure up our center ice position. However i don't think giving up on a player like Eberle is the right course of action.


Vanek got a 1st a 2nd and Matt Moulson for the Sabres. If the Sens wanted that sure i would do it. However in reality the Sens have been pretty clear that they are in a win now mode. See LeBrun's article:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-to-make-deals

For the Sens it makes no sense to trade Spezza as they can't replace him easily with free agency or with other players in their system.

Therefore, i think the only way you get Spezza is at the trade deadline next year if the Sens season implode and they are out of the playoffs and the Oilers are in a playoff position. Both are extreme reaches imo.

The article is more than wishful thinking its mostly unrealistic speculation.
Stastny will get paid if he makes it to UFA, all decent players do. But I am comfortable shelling out some big $ if it fills a hole on our team. You have to be willing to take some risks if you want to bring in players that compliment your core.

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02-18-2014, 05:25 PM
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Ugh you don't get what hes saying, if we have Hall, Nuge, Yak, Schultz, Perron etc how are we going to afford 6-7 million for Stastny, it would be nice to have him but eventually we wouldn't be able to keep these players, yes the cap is going up but as we get more and more of our young kids improving those players will ask for a lot more and that 7 million will be pretty scary when hes +33 and our kids are in their prime asking for 7-8 million.

#1. Boon Jenner: Young, gritty and skilled and is still considered to be developing. CBJ have depth through the middle and he can be had for cheap compared to other options.

#2. Brayden Schenn: Same player as Jenner just 2 years older and has a lot of NHL experience as well as playing very well in last years playoffs. But from what ive seen Philly are looking for defense in return which we don't have, it would take a lot to pry him out of there.

#3: Colin Wilson: Hes not really super physical or gritty but hes a big body with skill who would flourish in an offensive system and has learned a lot being in Trotz' system and would be cheaper than Schenn

#4: Dave Bolland: Hes been stuck behind a lot of centers his career and played a shut down role really well, if Toronto cant meet his contract demands we could get him for cheap or wait till FA and hope he signs here.


Honorable mention: 2014 Draft: I only make a trade at the draft, if Ekblad isn't available and there's a good chance if he isn't Sam Bennett is then there's our #2 right there. We could possibly trade down and draft Connor Bleackley who looks really great in red deer but may or may not take a bit to develop, hard to say.
That rumored Wilson / Gagner trade makes a ton of sense. Preds gets a more offensive player who can score while the rest of the team can cover up his defensive mistakes. The Oilers get a defensively responsible center that can support his wingers in the offensive zone.

If you can do a deal like that, then use your dollars in the offseason to sign a legitimate goaltender and a few true NHL d-men and stop rolling the dice on the Grebeshkov's and Potter's of the world.

These are the kinds of moves that makes sense. We aren't one player away from a playoff spot or more importantly a lengthy playoff run. Now isn't the time to be stupid with UFA signings like we almost were with Clarkson. This isn't the time to dump important young assets into a near UFA Spezza either.

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02-18-2014, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by LTIR View Post
We need size + grit + faceoffs + scoring

Stasny: meh + no + yes + yes
Zajac: yes + no + yes + meh
Couturier: yes + no + no + meh
Spezza: yes + no + yes + yes

Out of these 4 Spezza seems to fit the bill the most.

Top C to target IMO:
B.Schenn : yes, yes, meh, yes
Trite, Trite, Trite, Trite

1. Size?
lbs/inch?
total Lbs?
center of gravity?
arm Strength?

2. Grit?
Grumpy?
Tough areas?
Hold pocession?
Hit cause cannot retain pocession?

3. Faceoff - win I presume.
Gordon 58.1% 20/GM
Hendricks 54.6% 4/GM
Arco 51% 10/GM
RNH 42.2% 16/gm
Gagner 45.7% 14/gm

4. Scoring?
Points?
Preventing scoring?
Even scoring?
Goal Scoring?

They have stated there will be a reset after the olympics.
I am sure Lander, who is 16gm 7G 16A 1.44P/gm since his return to AHL,
will get a look.

Better than nyquist, Conacher, T. johnson, Atkinson at the same age in the AHL.

Suspect Arco gets more time in FO.


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02-18-2014, 06:26 PM
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None of those 4 seem likely to me. The article doesn't go into potential price of doing business, or the fact Spezza and Zajac have full NTC's.

So let's look at all the angles:

Stastny - played at the University of Denver before joining the Avs, so he's been in that State for a decade. Has gone on record wanting to stay there, but if he can't sign an extension, he'll be highly coveted by at least 10-12 teams. I think it will take an offer of 7 years, 50 mil (7.14 per), and if a team like the Blues offer the same he chooses them easily.

Zajac - Lou loves him and the guy has a NTC, end of discussion.

Spezza - also has a NTC, but with only a year left might be willing to waive. That said, the cost will be a roster player, top prospect and 1st. If we did it in the off-season we're probably looking at Perron + or maybe Gagner, Marincin, 2015 1st. That's steep for only 1 guaranteed year of Spezza.

Couturier - Flyers love his two-way play and character, I can see them wanting to move him, but the cost would be Yak+.

I don't know that any of these are realistic.

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