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Rumor Thread 3.0: Gagner fit for a King?

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Old
02-10-2014, 01:55 PM
  #226
russ99
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Gagner for Clifford plus a pick or a prospect is acceptable, IMO.

We have to start making unsexy trades for the right quality glue players.

I think that means losing on value a few times.

Even the kind of glue players who are always available in FA?

Losing trades doesn't improve the team. It means you pay more for a guy you could get elsewhere for less.

There's nothing about Clifford that makes me think he should be the exception.

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02-10-2014, 01:58 PM
  #227
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maybe pittsburgh wants him to back up fleury and the devils wont deal him?
Maybe we turn him into our goalie coach and fire Chabot.

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02-10-2014, 02:30 PM
  #228
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Even the kind of glue players who are always available in FA?

Losing trades doesn't improve the team. It means you pay more for a guy you could get elsewhere for less.

There's nothing about Clifford that makes me think he should be the exception.
With very few exceptions, guys in free agency are there because their teams don't see them as ideal for their team make-up. Invariably, some team will sign Ryan Jones with the hope and expectation that he is one of those glue guys - and we know that not to be the case, just like San Jose knew Ben Eager wasn't.

When you look at a 23 year old who, in his role, has all of the qualities plus the value and respect of his current team - it's not hard to see it being a much better fit.

Sam's problem is that he's making $5M, his production is down and he's redundant. As much as I do like him, I think a lesser player and a better fit COULD improve the team, that clearing the space and adding a guy like Clifford, will improve the team long term.

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02-10-2014, 02:52 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
With very few exceptions, guys in free agency are there because their teams don't see them as ideal for their team make-up. Invariably, some team will sign Ryan Jones with the hope and expectation that he is one of those glue guys - and we know that not to be the case, just like San Jose knew Ben Eager wasn't.
Or they are too expensive. Or they have been made redundant by other players in the system. Also a guy who might not fit on one team could be a valuable contributor in a different context.

Quote:
When you look at a 23 year old who, in his role, has all of the qualities plus the value and respect of his current team - it's not hard to see it being a much better fit.
Arguing Clifford would be a good fit on the Oilers because he's a good fit for LA doesn't make sense (it also raises the question of why they'd trade him).

Quote:
Sam's problem is that he's making $5M, his production is down and he's redundant. As much as I do like him, I think a lesser player and a better fit COULD improve the team, that clearing the space and adding a guy like Clifford, will improve the team long term
.

When you trade a player like Gagner, it's probably inevitable that you end up with an inferior player. It's simple a question of how inferior. And Clifford is pretty much the bottom of the barrel in terms of return.

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02-10-2014, 03:01 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Or they are too expensive. Or they have been made redundant by other players in the system. Also a guy who might not fit on one team could be a valuable contributor in a different context.



Arguing Clifford would be a good fit on the Oilers because he's a good fit for LA doesn't make sense (it also raises the question of why they'd trade him).

.

When you trade a player like Gagner, it's probably inevitable that you end up with an inferior player. It's simple a question of how inferior. And Clifford is pretty much the bottom of the barrel in terms of return.
While I agree that Clifford is not equal to Gagner, I think the biggest question for this deal is who is the 2nd player coming along with Clifford? I don't see anyway LA can deal Clifford straight up for Gagner without us retaining salary, and if we do retain salary how good of pick or prospect do we get for doing that? My guess is were getting 2 of LA's roster players for Gagner with maybe a later round pick also say a 3rd.

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02-10-2014, 03:04 PM
  #231
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At some point, a rebuilding team needs to start creating a team rather than collecting individuals.

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02-10-2014, 03:13 PM
  #232
Moose Coleman
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
While I agree that Clifford is not equal to Gagner, I think the biggest question for this deal is who is the 2nd player coming along with Clifford? I don't see anyway LA can deal Clifford straight up for Gagner without us retaining salary, and if we do retain salary how good of pick or prospect do we get for doing that? My guess is were getting 2 of LA's roster players for Gagner with maybe a later round pick also say a 3rd.
A salary dump. L.A. isn't going to trade a part they need. IMO, they are a poor fit for Edmonton.

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02-10-2014, 04:53 PM
  #233
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@Sportsnet
HC Trade Tracker: Will Ales Hemsky find a new home?

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/h...ales-hemsky-4/

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02-10-2014, 05:13 PM
  #234
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Maybe we turn him into our goalie coach and fire Chabot.
we could hire a corpse and it would be an improvement

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02-10-2014, 05:41 PM
  #235
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@Sportsnet
HC Trade Tracker: Will Ales Hemsky find a new home?

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/h...ales-hemsky-4/
well that was pretty insulting... Lets hope a strong showing at Olympics boosts his value.

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02-10-2014, 05:43 PM
  #236
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well that was pretty insulting... Lets hope a strong showing at Olympics boosts his value.
No doubt. Let's hope this isn't the feeling around the league:

"If anyone is willing to take Hemsky's contract Craig MacTavish should get in the car and drive him to that city" Neil Smith

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02-10-2014, 05:49 PM
  #237
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well that was pretty insulting... Lets hope a strong showing at Olympics boosts his value.
Thats if he gets some playing time. He is currently an extra forward according to posters on the Czech Roster Discussion.

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02-10-2014, 06:28 PM
  #238
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There are a few teams who are in need of a top 9 winger. Once Vanek and Moulson are off the board I'm sure there will be at least 1 desperate GM out there who will give us at least a 2nd if we retain half of hemsky's contract.

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Old
02-10-2014, 08:25 PM
  #239
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Clifford my ass. If LA wants Gagner the converstaion needs to revolve around Mike Richards.

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02-10-2014, 09:05 PM
  #240
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Clifford my ass. If LA wants Gagner the converstaion needs to revolve around Mike Richards.
Richards is a key piece for them contending for the Stanley Cup. If you ask for Richards, Lombardi hangs up.

It'll be for prospects and role players if it goes through. Someone who could be a good fit in the top six as a physical/scoring threat, and someone who can contribute to our bottom six or our defence's bottom four.

We'll see if it ends up being someone like Prokhorkin/Toffoli and King/Clifford or Muzzin/Greene with us taking 25-50% salary. If we take 50% in salary, I'd damn well expect Los Angeles to overpay us in exchange for getting an offensive catalyst with a heavy salary discount.

We'll be short a #2C if this trade happens, so I wouldn't be surprised for us to take Reinhart if Ekblad is unavailable or trade for a #2C if we take Ekblad.

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02-10-2014, 09:17 PM
  #241
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Well Hemsky should at least have more trade value than Erat.

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02-10-2014, 09:23 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say! View Post
Clifford my ass. If LA wants Gagner the converstaion needs to revolve around Mike Richards.
You're not really trying to be serious here are you? There is no way Gagner gets you anywhere near Richards.

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02-10-2014, 09:23 PM
  #243
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Clifford my ass. If LA wants Gagner the converstaion needs to revolve around Mike Richards.

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02-10-2014, 09:36 PM
  #244
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No doubt. Let's hope this isn't the feeling around the league:

"If anyone is willing to take Hemsky's contract Craig MacTavish should get in the car and drive him to that city" Neil Smith
It's like those morons never heard of retaining salary. A ufa Hemsky at 2.5 is not a bad contract. Damn sports net is trash

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Old
02-10-2014, 10:04 PM
  #245
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It'll be for prospects and role players if it goes through.
Barf.

We're not trading the guy who finished 17th among centers last year for a bunch of dudes and we probably don't want our rookie gm doing a deal with the gm who just waltzed around his rink drinking champagne from the grail anyways. Role players lmao.

Seriously Gagner is coming to the point where his previous years of development start playing dividends. IATL and the lot basically ****'d after game 5 last season and didn't make a peep again until Gagner tried playing with the cage on.

If we keep Sam and draft Ekblad I'll be happy, or if we draft Reinhart or Bennet I'm ok with a Gagner trade. The Oil had better not trade away Gagner until they know who we are getting in that draft.

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02-10-2014, 10:16 PM
  #246
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You're not really trying to be serious here are you? There is no way Gagner gets you anywhere near Richards.
I'm serious from the point of view that I'm not chatting with them about trading Sam for some parts that the Oil may or may not develop into nhl'ers, or even for some super duper awesome magic beans. That's crap.

There's no saying that we just have to deal with the Kings, and if they want to do a deal then they can be the ones taking spare parts. The Oilers have until next season to win their next game. The Kings need to win in the playoffs. **** 'em.

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Old
02-10-2014, 10:22 PM
  #247
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A salary dump. L.A. isn't going to trade a part they need. IMO, they are a poor fit for Edmonton.
Well who do they have that would be a cap dump really? Stoll at 3.25M, Regehr at 3, Mitchell at 3.5M(UFA after this year), and Greene at 2.95M(Another UFA). You could make an argument for Dustin Brown as he set to get a pay raise to 5.87M and is playing on the 3rd line, but I don't think to many guys would be disappointed with Brown and Clifford as a return. On top of that they also have guys like Muzzin and Martinez at 1.1M but don't see how thats hurting their cap space. When I look at that list of guys, all of them pretty much make our team better right now and don't effect our cap space to significantly.

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02-10-2014, 10:22 PM
  #248
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Stauffer, from earlier today

"The Oilers have 9 unrestricted free agents, minimum 3 of them will be moved by the deadline, maybe 4-5 overall"

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02-10-2014, 10:31 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Stauffer, from earlier today

"The Oilers have 9 unrestricted free agents, minimum 3 of them will be moved by the deadline, maybe 4-5 overall"
My guess would be -

N. Schultz - traded at the deadline
Hemsky- traded at the deadline
Jones - traded/not signed
Belov - traded at the deadline/possibly re-signed
Potter - traded/not signed
Fraser - not signed
Smyth - traded at the deadline
Bryzgalov - traded at the deadline
Scrivens - re-signed

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02-10-2014, 10:34 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Stauffer, from earlier today

"The Oilers have 9 unrestricted free agents, minimum 3 of them will be moved by the deadline, maybe 4-5 overall"
Hemsky
Jones
Smyth
N Schultz
Belov
Potter
Fraser
Bryz
Scrivens

4-5 doesn't sound crazy.

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