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Rumor Thread 3.0: Gagner fit for a King?

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Old
02-11-2014, 08:14 AM
  #276
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by 40oz View Post
Well Hemsky should at least have more trade value than Erat.
I would seriously try move Hemsky for Erat and whatever. Get in GMGM's good books as there could be some real good assets coming available this off-season. Heck who knows maybe Hemksy and something gets you Erat and Brouwer as for some reason he is close to being on the block

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02-11-2014, 08:18 AM
  #277
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I think its very doubtful. It would obviously have to go by him, and I dunno if it would be worth it for him to move away from his wife and kids for 4 months just to play 4th line and MAYBE get a shot at the cup.
When you never won a cup and you are in potentially our last year anything could happen. I'm pretty sure someone credible mentioned that he'd consider it a week or two ago.

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02-11-2014, 08:24 AM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say! View Post
Clifford my ass. If LA wants Gagner the converstaion needs to revolve around Mike Richards.


I don't think that they should trade Gagner for Clifford either, but lets not get ridiculous with Richards talk.
I would take a Gagner for Muzzin swap though.

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02-11-2014, 08:29 AM
  #279
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Originally Posted by jeremiahjones View Post
My guess would be -

N. Schultz - traded at the deadline
Hemsky- traded at the deadline
Jones - traded/not signed
Belov - traded at the deadline/possibly re-signed
Potter - traded/not signed
Fraser - not signed
Smyth - traded at the deadline
Bryzgalov - traded at the deadline
Scrivens - re-signed
I'd be beyond shocked if MacT traded 7 of these guys.
I think Schultz and Hemsky will be traded, maybe Potter and Bryzgalov if there are any takers.
I can't see Smyth being dealt unless he really wants to go for one last shot at a cup which i hopes he does for his sake and i think that they try to re-sign Jones.
And Belov will likely go back to the KHL after this season and hopefully Scrivens is signed soon.

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02-11-2014, 08:31 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I'd be beyond shocked if MacT made 7 deadline trades.
I think Schultz and Hemsky will be traded, maybe Potter and Bryzgalov if there are any takers.
I can't see Smyth being dealt unless he really wants to go for one last shot at a cup which i hopes he does for his sake and i think that they try to re-sign Jones.
And Belov will likely go back to the KHL after this season.
Who the hell knows with him. He's already made 8 deals this season. Not sure Tambo made that many during the season his whole tenure.

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02-11-2014, 08:33 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
When you never won a cup and you are in potentially our last year anything could happen. I'm pretty sure someone credible mentioned that he'd consider it a week or two ago.
I think Smytty gave up on his Cup dreams when he asked to be traded back to Edmonton to begin with. Pretty sure the idea was to finish his career where he started, unless of course maybe he changed his mind.

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Old
02-11-2014, 08:50 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Who the hell knows with him. He's already made 8 deals this season. Not sure Tambo made that many during the season his whole tenure.
That's true. I've been harsh on MacT, but the one thing i'll give him credit for is that he is very active in looking to improve the roster even if he strikes out a lot on the more significant deals.
I just don't see all the aforementioned players having enough value for a contender to take a flier on.

Scrivens (who better not be dealt), Hemsky, Schultz and Smyth most definitely will garner some interest. MAYBE Bryz and Jones although i doubt it. The others are worthless pretty much.
I think Hemsky and Schultz are definitely gone or at least we can hope. Smyth only if he gives the go ahead to deal him which i doubt will happen to be honest. Don't see the others being dealt due to lack of interest.
If MacT can get back a 2nd and 3rd rounder, that's a win in itself. He can then use those picks in packages for solid NHLers in the offseason.


Last edited by CupofOil: 02-11-2014 at 08:58 AM.
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Old
02-11-2014, 08:58 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
That's true. I've been harsh on MacT, but the one thing i'll give him credit for is that he is very active in looking to improve the roster even if he strikes out a lot on the more significant deals.
I just don't see all the aforementioned players having enough value for a contender to take a flier on.

Scrivens (who better not be dealt), Hemsky, Schultz and Smyth most definitely will garner some interest. MAYBE Bryz and Jones although i doubt it. The others are worthless pretty much.
I think Hemsky and Schultz are definitely gone or at least we can hope. Smyth only if he gives the go ahead to deal him which i doubt will happen to be honest. Don't see the others being dealt due to lack of interest.
I could see Jones having value simply because if you scouted him during his fight week you'd really like the player you saw. I also won't be shocked to see a couple minor league deals thrown in there as well.

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Old
02-11-2014, 09:05 AM
  #284
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Moved


Last edited by Oilfan2: 02-11-2014 at 09:59 AM.
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02-11-2014, 09:17 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Oilfan2 View Post
I see the following before the deadline:

Hemsky for a 2nd and a mid-tier prospect or a late 1st.
NSchultz for a 3rd.
Jones for a 4th.

Smyth for a 6-7 if he desires to go. Otherwise he'll play out the season (and his career).

Anything else will probably be in the summer.
I think that Smyth has a good deal more value than Jones.
He has actually had a pretty good year and when you add in playoff experience and the fact that he plays a playoff type of game, i think the Oilers can possibly get a 2nd or 3rd rounder for him.

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02-11-2014, 09:23 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Bergeron47 View Post
I'm under the belief the Oilers have already made a trade, but will obviously have to wait for the end of the freeze to announce it.

"I wonder, ohhhh I wonder, if the Edmonton Oilers lineup will look the same when we get back" - Bob Stauffer today

I'd be willing to make an aviater bet. It's clearly not Gagner as he stated why it would be smarter to move him in the offseason.

He said he could see as many as 4 or 5 UFA's leaving by the deadline, and seemed sure about 3.
Well hopefully we get decent value for those UFA's and I'm hopeful that the Gagner trade still goes down and that this is just posturing to get a better return.

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Old
02-11-2014, 09:35 AM
  #287
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Contrary to popular belief, I don't think Gagner for Clifford straight up is that bad to be honest, and this is coming from a Gagner supporter.

Clifford is a bottom6 player with good size. This season is toast and leaving a gap at #2C just for the rest of the year is something I'm willing to allow happen.

It's pretty clear, Gagner needs a change of scenery and needs to get out of EDM. He's seen way too much and I'm suspecting his frustration and the amount of losing has finally caught up to him.

Let the season play out and hopefully Mac-T gets a #2C in place. If not, re-sign Arcobello for cheap and wait until Yakimov is ready.

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02-11-2014, 09:50 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Blue And Orange View Post
Contrary to popular belief, I don't think Gagner for Clifford straight up is that bad to be honest, and this is coming from a Gagner supporter.

Clifford is a bottom6 player with good size. This season is toast and leaving a gap at #2C just for the rest of the year is something I'm willing to allow happen.

It's pretty clear, Gagner needs a change of scenery and needs to get out of EDM. He's seen way too much and I'm suspecting his frustration and the amount of losing has finally caught up to him.

Let the season play out and hopefully Mac-T gets a #2C in place. If not, re-sign Arcobello for cheap and wait until Yakimov is ready.
Ooops..wrong thread..


Last edited by Oilfan2: 02-11-2014 at 09:55 AM.
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Old
02-11-2014, 10:33 AM
  #289
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IMO, Moulson or Vanek likely moves pre deadline. I think Gagner and Cammeleri will have increasing value. I also doubt half of Hemsky's contract will need to be eaten to make a trade work.

Gagner...summer, seems pretty obvious now. I'd rather they keep him and hope he has a productive final 20 games. No need to retain any of his salary as a "contract for contract" trade should be workable in the off season.

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02-11-2014, 11:17 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
IMO, Moulson or Vanek likely moves pre deadline. I think Gagner and Cammeleri will have increasing value. I also doubt half of Hemsky's contract will need to be eaten to make a trade work.

Gagner...summer, seems pretty obvious now. I'd rather they keep him and hope he has a productive final 20 games. No need to retain any of his salary as a "contract for contract" trade should be workable in the off season.
I think salary retention is inevitable if Hemmer is traded. Too many teams are against the cap to just take on his salary. It won't be a problem since we will have the cap room to do it and that his contract ends at the end of this year.

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Old
02-11-2014, 12:11 PM
  #291
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Or they are too expensive. Or they have been made redundant by other players in the system. Also a guy who might not fit on one team could be a valuable contributor in a different context.
Those guys are often traded and signed by another team, and the few that aren't get term.

Quote:
Arguing Clifford would be a good fit on the Oilers because he's a good fit for LA doesn't make sense (it also raises the question of why they'd trade him).
Because they can't score, haven't been able to score for years and are winning in value in spite of salary by trading Clifford for Gagner. They would not move him if they weren't.

It's not about being a good fit, it's about being a good contributor. We need about 3 Clifford's, there's no question about our team lacking in that type of player.

Quote:
When you trade a player like Gagner, it's probably inevitable that you end up with an inferior player. It's simple a question of how inferior. And Clifford is pretty much the bottom of the barrel in terms of return.
Humor me, then: What is a good return (knowing that will you lose on value because of his salary)?

My feeling is that you will not acquire a young fit like Clifford in free agency, you will not acquire him or his peer in trade without losing in value given the composition of our team.

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02-11-2014, 12:27 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Blue And Orange View Post
Contrary to popular belief, I don't think Gagner for Clifford straight up is that bad to be honest, and this is coming from a Gagner supporter.

Clifford is a bottom6 player with good size. This season is toast and leaving a gap at #2C just for the rest of the year is something I'm willing to allow happen.

It's pretty clear, Gagner needs a change of scenery and needs to get out of EDM. He's seen way too much and I'm suspecting his frustration and the amount of losing has finally caught up to him.

Let the season play out and hopefully Mac-T gets a #2C in place. If not, re-sign Arcobello for cheap and wait until Yakimov is ready.
poor Sammy boy with his doe eyes and epic skill level.

throw this argument onto Hemsky about 6 years ago plus getting run into the boards from behind to get injured for this loser organization that gave him Shawn Horcoff and Dustin Penner to play with.

i have no sympathy for Gagner. he was overhyped coming out of the Super Series and people bought into his underwhelming game way too long hoping "age" would fix it. now that all the arguments are exhausted The Wise Forum Users finally wake up and are willing to trade him for some bottom 6 player that everyone will get pissed at when the team still blows.

great times being an Oilers fan right now

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02-11-2014, 12:59 PM
  #293
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poor Sammy boy with his doe eyes and epic skill level.

throw this argument onto Hemsky about 6 years ago plus getting run into the boards from behind to get injured for this loser organization that gave him Shawn Horcoff and Dustin Penner to play with.

i have no sympathy for Gagner. he was overhyped coming out of the Super Series and people bought into his underwhelming game way too long hoping "age" would fix it. now that all the arguments are exhausted The Wise Forum Users finally wake up and are willing to trade him for some bottom 6 player that everyone will get pissed at when the team still blows.

great times being an Oilers fan right now
Maybe he was overhyped a bit. But at the same time, you have to admit, if he was nurtured and brought up properly, we could've seen a Sam Gagner that's better defensively and a much more complete player.

Gagner was essentially thrown into the wolves and expected to carry this team on his back, which he isn't capable of. He's a complimentary player that would do well on a team that compliments his weaknesses and showcase his strenghts. The Oilers are not that team. They're a team full of small skilled forwards.

I can't wait until Gagner is gone. I'm sick and tired of reading these endless and useless debates by the extremists on both sides. Get this **** over with it and give Gagner a change of scenery FFS!


Last edited by Blue And Orange: 02-11-2014 at 01:10 PM. Reason: Change
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02-11-2014, 01:45 PM
  #294
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Those guys are often traded and signed by another team, and the few that aren't get term..
And?

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Because they can't score, haven't been able to score for years and are winning in value in spite of salary by trading Clifford for Gagner. They would not move him if they weren't.
Heard that before. "Kings are so deep they can afford to move a great prospect like Teubert!"

Quote:
It's not about being a good fit, it's about being a good contributor. We need about 3 Clifford's, there's no question about our team lacking in that type of player.
Clifford is a one dimensional fourth line plug. Dime a dozen. What does he contribute that can't be found elsewhere? the type of player the Oilers lack are guys who are both gritty/physical who can also play the game.

Quote:
Humor me, then: What is a good return (knowing that will you lose on value because of his salary)?
Martinez, Muzzin, something along those lines.

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My feeling is that you will not acquire a young fit like Clifford in free agency, you will not acquire him or his peer in trade without losing in value given the composition of our team
See, I completely disagree with the premise that Clifford is any kind of "fit" for this team. What does he bring that, say, Gazdic doesn't?

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02-11-2014, 02:06 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
And?



Heard that before. "Kings are so deep they can afford to move a great prospect like Teubert!"



Clifford is a one dimensional fourth line plug. Dime a dozen. What does he contribute that can't be found elsewhere? the type of player the Oilers lack are guys who are both gritty/physical who can also play the game.



Martinez, Muzzin, something along those lines.



See, I completely disagree with the premise that Clifford is any kind of "fit" for this team. What does he bring that, say, Gazdic doesn't?
If your even asking that question then I dunno what to say. As I said before it's Clifford+ if it happens. So what plus makes the deal look alright? Personally I think the deal will get done and its either Clifford+Stoll or Clifford+Muzzin coming back.

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02-11-2014, 02:16 PM
  #296
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The main issue with trading Gagner for Clifford is that our 2C remains vacant. We can use Arcobello as a place holder sure, but what about the upcoming seasons?

We don't really have that many assets to spend on a 2C. Depending on free agency is passive and pathetic.

Right now Gagner is in the position Paajarvi was in. Valuable but expendable. We don't have many players like this. I don't mind trading Gagner for Clifford if it fixes problems on the team. It's just that right now I would rather take a gamble on a riskier player who might fill that 2C role rather than a sure-fire bet in the top six.

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02-11-2014, 02:52 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post


I don't think that they should trade Gagner for Clifford either, but lets not get ridiculous with Richards talk.
I would take a Gagner for Muzzin swap though.
I wouldn't want Richards, either, at his term and price tag. $5.75mil cap hit for another 7 years...yuck! He's got a lot of miles on him for that kind of dough and term.

That said, Gagner needs to go. He needs a change of scenery as much as the Oilers need to move on.

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02-11-2014, 03:01 PM
  #298
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That said, Gagner needs to go. He needs a change of scenery as much as the Oilers need to move on.
I think many posters greatly over value what Gagner and his contract are worth. But yes I think most of us can at least agree on this part of the discussion. Gagner does not fit with the make up of this team and I think that has been obvious for a couple years now at least.

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02-11-2014, 03:39 PM
  #299
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The main issue with trading Gagner for Clifford is that our 2C remains vacant. We can use Arcobello as a place holder sure, but what about the upcoming seasons?

We don't really have that many assets to spend on a 2C. Depending on free agency is passive and pathetic.

Right now Gagner is in the position Paajarvi was in. Valuable but expendable. We don't have many players like this. I don't mind trading Gagner for Clifford if it fixes problems on the team. It's just that right now I would rather take a gamble on a riskier player who might fill that 2C role rather than a sure-fire bet in the top six.
Perhaps Yakimov might step in and become that #2C. The guy is a big body and has huge upside. I;m excited to see him at training camp next fall.

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02-11-2014, 03:41 PM
  #300
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I wouldn't want Richards, either, at his term and price tag. $5.75mil cap hit for another 7 years...yuck! He's got a lot of miles on him for that kind of dough and term.

That said, Gagner needs to go. He needs a change of scenery as much as the Oilers need to move on.
This.

I'm a Gagner fan myself, but it's quite clear he's not a fit with the Oilers. Hopefully, he gets his chance to be successful elsewhere and wish him the best of luck.

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