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Can the Flyers Contend With This Roster?

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Old
02-09-2014, 09:25 PM
  #26
lancer247
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Would adding Big Buf without subtracting from the current roster make them a cup contender?

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02-09-2014, 09:28 PM
  #27
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Is Buff even playing as a D anymore? I know they switched him to forward after hiring the new coach, but I haven't heard of anything since. They've been on a tear since the new coach came in so I don't know.

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02-09-2014, 09:34 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
Would adding Big Buf without subtracting from the current roster make them a cup contender?
Nope. Just another 1 dimensional D. We have enough of them as-is.


Though over the last few years, that seems to be the case for most Dmen. We are in a dying time of defensive talent.

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02-09-2014, 09:36 PM
  #29
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Replacing Grossmann with a good skater who can also make a good first pass would do wonders for the defense. That player doesn't have to be a top pairing guy, just a solid defender who isn't a skating liability. It wouldn't make us a cup favorite, but I would have much more confidence with the possibility of them putting together a nice run.

Another way to improve the team would be to stop putting Meszaros in the lineup. He is just horrible

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02-09-2014, 09:40 PM
  #30
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Any team that makes the playoffs can "contend" for a Cup.

The Flyers have good depth, but I would worry about playing a team like the Bruins, who have the deepest team in the East. Avoid the Bruins, and I think forwards match-ups would be competitive against anyone else in the East.

The defense has decent depth, but there is at least one super slow guy on each pair... which can easily be exploited by fast and/or hard forechecking teams.

Mason can get hot, but has never won a playoff game. There's always a chance a goalie can Halak his team to a Conference Final, but it's obviously unlikely.

Ultimately, the playoffs come down to how well you match against your opponent(s). Since the year that shall not be named, how far the Flyers went in the playoffs reflected their opponents, not necessarily how they stood against the entire conference:

2008: played the Caps in round one, their first division championship and playoff in the Ovechkin era, and a team that looked it (Flyers won in 7); played the Habs in the second round, the number one seed, but a small team that the Flyers could skate with and manhandle physically (Flyers won in 5); lost to a Pens team that completely outmatched the Flyers in the ECF.

2009: lost to the Pens in the first round in six games, in a close series, but lost to a team that still controlled the play against the Flyers.

2010: could not have asked for better competition in the East: Devils, Bruins, Habs, all teams that the Flyers matched up well against.

2011: lucky to play the Sabres in the first round, before losing to a much better Bruins team in the second.

2012: the Flyers had been dominant in the CEC since its opening, so not totally surprising that the Flyers upset the Pens before bowing out to the Devils.

Both years the Flyers went deep in recent years (2008, 2010), very few would have predicted it leading up to the playoffs, but the Flyers had favourable match-ups that helped them along the way.

Going back to 2003, unexpected teams have been contenders for the Cup. The Ducks (2003), the Flames (2004), the Oilers (2006), the Flyers (2010), the Kings and Devils (2012) have all made somewhat unexpected runs to the Final. Note: only one of those teams won (the Kings) and I'm sure many would argue that their run wasn't all that unexpected.

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02-09-2014, 09:44 PM
  #31
LegionOfDoom91
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The 2010 Flyers & the 2012 Kings don't really strike me as unexpected. They struggled to get into the postseason but people were predicting them as potential favorites prior to the seasons starts so I would call them underachievers who clicked at the right time.

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02-09-2014, 09:50 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Nope. Just another 1 dimensional D. We have enough of them as-is.


Though over the last few years, that seems to be the case for most Dmen. We are in a dying time of defensive talent.
Yep... pretty abysmal really.

Though the groups of u25s at the moment have the potential to be special. Pretty absurd that ~7 of the top ~15 D men in the NHL are 25 and under, and 5 of the top 10 for sure... though that speaks more for the last ten years than now.

Top group (already ~#1-#1b):

Pietrangelo
Ekman-Larsson
Subban
Doughty
Karlsson
Hedman
McDonagh

Subgroup of top group (Have played or currently are playing at #1-#1b level):

Fowler
Carlson

2nd group (already top 3-4 D men):

Myers
Bogosian
Voynov
Hamonic
Josi
Faulk
Brodin

3rd group (NHLers with obvious potential to be top pairing (though a lot will never be):

Hamilton
Larsson
Maatta
Trouba
Jones
Lindholm
Gudbranson
Vatanen
Murphy
Pysyk
Gelinas
Krug
Leddy
Kulikov

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02-09-2014, 10:12 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
The 2010 Flyers & the 2012 Kings don't really strike me as unexpected. They struggled to get into the postseason but people were predicting them as potential favorites prior to the seasons starts so I would call them underachievers who clicked at the right time.
Exactly; those teams are called Cinderella teams, but I don't buy that. They didn't come out of nowhere, they just finally started doing what was initially expected of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
Yep... pretty abysmal really.

Though the groups of u25s at the moment have the potential to be special. Pretty absurd that ~7 of the top ~15 D men in the NHL are 25 and under, and 5 of the top 10 for sure... though that speaks more for the last ten years than now.

Top group (already ~#1-#1b):

Pietrangelo
Ekman-Larsson
Subban
Doughty
Karlsson
Hedman
McDonagh

Subgroup of top group (Have played or currently are playing at #1-#1b level):

Fowler
Carlson

2nd group (already top 3-4 D men):

Myers
Bogosian
Voynov
Hamonic
Josi
Faulk
Brodin

3rd group (NHLers with obvious potential to be top pairing (though a lot will never be):

Hamilton
Larsson
Maatta
Trouba
Jones
Lindholm
Gudbranson
Vatanen
Murphy
Pysyk
Gelinas
Krug
Leddy
Kulikov
Yeah we're definitely in a slump for D talent, but it's looking like that might be rectified in the next decade or so. I look forward to seeing how it plays out.

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Old
02-09-2014, 11:06 PM
  #34
CanadianFlyer88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
The 2010 Flyers & the 2012 Kings don't really strike me as unexpected. They struggled to get into the postseason but people were predicting them as potential favorites prior to the seasons starts so I would call them underachievers who clicked at the right time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Exactly; those teams are called Cinderella teams, but I don't buy that. They didn't come out of nowhere, they just finally started doing what was initially expected of them.
The Kings could maybe get a pass, but absolutely no one expected the Flyers to do anything in the 2010 playoffs. I'm not talking about 6 months before the playoffs when the pundits were throwing names around; I'm talking after 82 regular season games.

Not as much as the Flyers, but the Kings were still a surprise, knocking off the #1 seed and defending Western Conference champion Vancouver in the first round.

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02-09-2014, 11:59 PM
  #35
zarley zelepukin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
The Kings could maybe get a pass, but absolutely no one expected the Flyers to do anything in the 2010 playoffs. I'm not talking about 6 months before the playoffs when the pundits were throwing names around; I'm talking after 82 regular season games.

Not as much as the Flyers, but the Kings were still a surprise, knocking off the #1 seed and defending Western Conference champion Vancouver in the first round.
The Kings team that went into the playoffs that year wasn't the same team that played most of the regular season. And I'm sure no one was counting on the 2010 Flyers to go that far once the playoffs started but I don't think anyone would have denied their talent outside of the goalie. They started the year with high expectations.

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02-10-2014, 12:32 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
The Kings could maybe get a pass, but absolutely no one expected the Flyers to do anything in the 2010 playoffs. I'm not talking about 6 months before the playoffs when the pundits were throwing names around; I'm talking after 82 regular season games.

Not as much as the Flyers, but the Kings were still a surprise, knocking off the #1 seed and defending Western Conference champion Vancouver in the first round.
Like the Flyers after the Pronger trade, I distinctly remember the experts considering the Kings a legit contender after they got Richards.

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02-10-2014, 12:49 AM
  #37
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We need a top pairing d man to be serious contenders at this point....we could certainly trade some of our young prospects plus a roster player or two and a first round draft and perhaps get something decent.....

A Laughlin, Morin, Mez, First round pick might be able to land something fairly decent. I am leery of going after Elder now with his back problems....who else is out there? Buff??

Granted, even with our current roster, all we have to do is get in the playoffs and anything can happen...we still have a lot of talent on this team....

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02-10-2014, 01:53 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 View Post
No.

But they're on the right track. Hopefully one or two of Ghost/Morin/Hagg/Alt can develop into the defenders the Flyers are looking for. A couple of good drafts and a few solid/safe free agent signings and I think they can be contenders in a few years or so. They just gotta be patient.

EDIT:
@tpanotchCSN
BTW: talked to an NHL scout yesterday. He says Morin is going to be a monster No. 1 d-man someday. Great news for the Flyers

Start planning the parade boys. Panotch is never wrong!



I know some people have written it here before but I truly spit my coffee all over the screen for this. Made my day already.

PS. It's already 9 am in Europe.

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02-10-2014, 01:57 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
Replacing Grossmann with a good skater who can also make a good first pass would do wonders for the defense. That player doesn't have to be a top pairing guy, just a solid defender who isn't a skating liability. It wouldn't make us a cup favorite, but I would have much more confidence with the possibility of them putting together a nice run.

Another way to improve the team would be to stop putting Meszaros in the lineup. He is just horrible
Trade for C. Ehrhoff or B. Campbell? They could be solid stopgaps for the next, say, 2-3 years.

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02-10-2014, 02:19 AM
  #40
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In almost any other year? No. But this season with 25 ish games left in the season, teams 8-25 in the league are separated by 11 points. More than ever, this is a "just gotta get in" year, and we would need lights out goaltending by Mason. Realistically I think if we finish 2 or 3 we can win a series with the rangers, frustrate pittsburgh and maybe get on a run. This team does have a pretty special knack for scoring late clutch goals recently...

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02-10-2014, 02:30 AM
  #41
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To go on a run this year we would need all three lines getting hot as they have this season all at the same time, Mason standing on his head and Grossmann and L. Schenn playing at least as they did last season. It is highly unlikely. Patience is a virtue, I hope Homer is not a buyer at the deadline.

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02-10-2014, 03:03 AM
  #42
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The roster as is, could make the playoffs and there for could potential win the Cup if not actually having statistically significant chance to win it. But if you're asking if this roster has a realistic chance of winning the Cup rather than simply having a statistical one then no.


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02-10-2014, 03:50 AM
  #43
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We are good but not contenders. The Boston game showed us that. But the games after also showed we can step up to a level. This team is young and therefore will be streaky. If we hit a good streak we can win a round. With out pp and pk being great and good we could do some damage but title of contender is a year or two away depending on the d coming up.

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02-10-2014, 08:01 AM
  #44
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If the players on this team all play at their highest level, they can compete. The only time that happens is when teams win the Stanley Cup. I don't see it happening, but if you get every ounce of play out of these guys, you have a contending team. But Grossmann hasn't been playing great, Timonen is clearly slowing (and injured), Mez has been bad in his own end, Hartnell has been hot and cold, Voracek can be a lot better (as we saw last year), Couturier can produce more, VL can produce more and play better all-around, and so forth and so on. If they (and others I didn't mention) all right their collective ships at the same time, this is a contending team. But that just won't happen.

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02-10-2014, 08:04 AM
  #45
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It's not even certain we'll make the playoffs yet so, no.

In my mind the word "contender" is pretty much synonymous with "favorites". Otherwise then any playoff team is a contender really which seems kind of pointless to talk about.

Once you get into the playoffs anything can happen, but very much most of the time you have to be a top team in the regular season to be a favorite. Mason is an unknown still with his past history taken into account along with his play for most of December and January. If Mason falters we don't really have a real backup plan for that. Our backup plans would be Ray Emery and Cal Heeter.

We also have a really ugly looking D. It would look a lot better if Gustafsson didn't get mysteriously scratched constantly it seems, but there's only one or two guys out of the entire D that could be considered competent two-way guys at any time. Which is bad.

Our scoring prowess is really good, but we have literally almost zero prospect depth for call-ups. We have guys like McGinn and Holmstrom to fill minor roles then there's basically Laughton and that's it. So if our team gets hit hard by injuries, which not only hasn't happened this season but also happens to every team in the playoffs, we don't have the farm depth to cover for that.

That's my honest assessment. If Mason is the real deal we're not far off from being a contender in all honesty. Have to wait and see how Mason plus Berube turn out, but if they work out well the only thing that needs addressing is the D and dumping some dead weight at forward like Lecavalier and Downie.
Hard to tell, he has never played under PO pressures yet.

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02-10-2014, 08:11 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
Would adding Big Buf without subtracting from the current roster make them a cup contender?
I don't think so.

Adding Duncan Keith, might.

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Old
02-10-2014, 08:45 AM
  #47
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The Flyers would have to get very lucky with matchups and injuries to get to the cup, much like they did in 2010 and the kings did the year they won the cup. I think the Flyers can beat any team in the metro but would have to avoid Boston, Tampa, Chicago, St Louis, Anaheim, and LA (the flyers did beat the kings but were absolutely dominated that game).

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02-10-2014, 09:05 AM
  #48
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If they can add someone who will make an impact without subtracting from the roster or moving a top prospect, I say yes, however that's pretty far from likely.

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02-10-2014, 09:25 AM
  #49
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http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...__but____.html

Interesting article in regards to the point system. And basically how massively flawed it is.

Look at the comparison. Flyers don't move, but look at the teams knocking on the door, whereas if there was a 3/2/1 point system, they won't even be close.

Look at the everybody's favorite team in TB. Crashes all the way down to 7th if a regulation win was weighed heavier.

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02-10-2014, 09:32 AM
  #50
JDinkalage Morgoone
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http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...__but____.html

Interesting article in regards to the point system. And basically how massively flawed it is.

Look at the comparison. Flyers don't move, but look at the teams knocking on the door, whereas if there was a 3/2/1 point system, they won't even be close.

Look at the everybody's favorite team in TB. Crashes all the way down to 7th if a regulation win was weighed heavier.
The teams that purposely try to get to the shootout (seemingly) piss me off. That's crap.

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