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Can the Flyers Contend With This Roster?

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03-01-2014, 09:09 AM
  #76
DecadesofFutility
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If we're trading a center + for a promising dman instead of something established, we ARE hoping a prospect will solve the defensive dilemna...and you're paying extra to do it, too.
My thinking is that maybe we can get a rookie NHL defenseman or highly touted prospect.
Other organizations seem to have better results in picking defensemen than the Flyers.
I would approach one of those clubs seeking a more developed prospect.
I just do not have much faith that the Flyers can develop defensemen,
especially since they have not been successful in the past.

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03-01-2014, 09:13 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
Why would you want Hall gone? He's the perfect 4th line center. He just needs better wingers.
Because he's over 30, slow and has limited skills, other than winning face offs. He's a good piece for a deep team that wants a specific skill set, but here he's just taking up room. Laughton will take his spot next year. Raffl can center the 4th line this year as well as some shifts on the wing on the first 3 lines.

In today's NFL, size and fighting have limited value, what's more important is the mental toughness to go into corners (and enough size and strength to be functional there) and the speed to harass, big slow guys who are a step behind just get left in the dust.

There is no reason to carry veterans with no upside on a team that should be in the middle of a rebuilding process, which is why signing Vinnie made no sense. If Schenn needs more minutes to develop, and you want Couts to get more offensive shifts, then Vinnie is a road block at C and a project at wing.

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03-01-2014, 09:22 AM
  #78
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Having Schenn is tolerable. Having him and Grossmann is not.

We should trade Grossmann to a team out West who needs to deal with all their big forwards. They have much more board play and having Grossmann to lean on would help.

We also have top many C. Bite the bullet and get a REAL dman for one....but one that is 25 or under....not Edler. Say Schenn for Myers.


Coburn Myers
Gus Schenn
Streit

Move Vinny back to C.

Even see if Kimmo would come back for 1 year at 4 mill.


Last edited by Tripod: 03-01-2014 at 09:28 AM.
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03-01-2014, 09:28 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by deadhead View Post
Because he's over 30, slow and has limited skills, other than winning face offs. He's a good piece for a deep team that wants a specific skill set, but here he's just taking up room. Laughton will take his spot next year. Raffl can center the 4th line this year as well as some shifts on the wing on the first 3 lines.

In today's NFL, size and fighting have limited value, what's more important is the mental toughness to go into corners (and enough size and strength to be functional there) and the speed to harass, big slow guys who are a step behind just get left in the dust.

There is no reason to carry veterans with no upside on a team that should be in the middle of a rebuilding process, which is why signing Vinnie made no sense. If Schenn needs more minutes to develop, and you want Couts to get more offensive shifts, then Vinnie is a road block at C and a project at wing.
Adam Hall is one of the fastest on our team, Raffl does not play center, we are not rebuilding we are retooling, you need veterans. Vinny and Hartnell are the only players over 30 on our first three lines which is one of the youngest first three lines in the NHL. Adam Hall is one of the only players who constantly shows up, he knows his job and does it well.

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Old
03-01-2014, 09:30 AM
  #80
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Adam Hall and fast should never be in the same sentence.... Ever.

Raffle was playing center a little bit before the Olympics as well.

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03-01-2014, 10:51 AM
  #81
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Feels like 2010 all over again.

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03-01-2014, 11:34 AM
  #82
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Feels like 2010 all over again.
how so?
is Chris Pronger coming back?

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03-01-2014, 11:44 AM
  #83
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Feels like 2010 all over again.
Except for that roster was stacked outside of goaltending and underwhelming for most of the year. This team is underwhelming because they have serious flaws.

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03-01-2014, 11:51 AM
  #84
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I actually think the Flyers have a great roster, even better than my Pens. Only problem is consistency, one night they look fantastic and the next night not so much. If they could get more consistent then they could for sure be seen as a legit Cup contender.

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03-01-2014, 12:39 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by DoobeeDoobeeDoo View Post
I actually think the Flyers have a great roster, even better than my Pens. Only problem is consistency, one night they look fantastic and the next night not so much. If they could get more consistent then they could for sure be seen as a legit Cup contender.
Flyers have some good talent at the forward positions, though I think most of their forwards are a year or two away. They have some more forward talent arriving in a year or two in Straka, Laughton and Leier.

However, the defense is a mess. They don't necessarily need a great defense, they do need a decent, competent defense. I think the key is to get 7 guys you can keep for 2-3 years and coach them together to play sound, fundamental defense. How many of the current guys would you count on being starters in 2015-2016?

What I don't want is another flurry of deals costing them upcoming talent for 30 year old veterans on the downside of their careers, and pushing them against the salary cap so they have to give away draft picks to get relief - been there, done that.

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03-01-2014, 12:56 PM
  #86
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We won't get more consistent unless we get a better roster. The defense is weak, the offense is counting on some guys who are still finding their way, and the goalie has been hot and cold. On the bright side, most of our talent is young but even as the forwards develop offensively, this team will go nowhere until it gets better in the defensive end.

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03-01-2014, 01:06 PM
  #87
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I think the forward group can play and do well against and team in the NHL... they are a top 10 group IMO.

But the D is bottom ten in the NHL

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03-01-2014, 01:19 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadhead View Post
Flyers have some good talent at the forward positions, though I think most of their forwards are a year or two away. They have some more forward talent arriving in a year or two in Straka, Laughton and Leier.

However, the defense is a mess. They don't necessarily need a great defense, they do need a decent, competent defense. I think the key is to get 7 guys you can keep for 2-3 years and coach them together to play sound, fundamental defense. How many of the current guys would you count on being starters in 2015-2016?

What I don't want is another flurry of deals costing them upcoming talent for 30 year old veterans on the downside of their careers, and pushing them against the salary cap so they have to give away draft picks to get relief - been there, done that.
True, they've sort of neglected that blue line ever since Pronger. I think they're turning the course however, as seen with their decision to draft dmen in the 1st 2 rounds instead of going with the best available forward. I think it will take them some time to truly be a Cup contender, but they could get there soon. Just gotta work on the blue line.

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03-01-2014, 01:20 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
I think the forward group can play and do well against and team in the NHL... they are a top 10 group IMO.

But the D is bottom ten in the NHL
When they're all on, the D can be pretty solid...maybe 11th to 15th in the league. But...all it takes is Coburn playing average instead of beastly and Grossmann dropping off for that unit to plummet. They've been really unsatisfying for a while now, probably since early December.

Constantly breaking up the solid Schenn/Gus pairing only hurts matters more.

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03-01-2014, 01:33 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoobeeDoobeeDoo View Post
I actually think the Flyers have a great roster, even better than my Pens. Only problem is consistency, one night they look fantastic and the next night not so much. If they could get more consistent then they could for sure be seen as a legit Cup contender.

The Penguins with a healthy roster (especially Letang who I do think is overrated...but still) are better than the Flyers. Malkin, Neal, Crosby, Kunitz...That's a lot of firepower. If you let the young kids develop a little more #14, #10 and don't make a trade out of overreaction I could see our roster being better than their's.

Maatta, a rookie, has been better and much more consistent than any Flyers d-man this year...

MAF is a mixed bag, but his ceiling is obviously much higher than Mason's.

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03-01-2014, 01:51 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
The Penguins with a healthy roster (especially Letang who I do think is overrated...but still) are better than the Flyers. Malkin, Neal, Crosby, Kunitz...That's a lot of firepower. If you let the young kids develop a little more #14, #10 and don't make a trade out of overreaction I could see our roster being better than their's.

Maatta, a rookie, has been better and much more consistent than any Flyers d-man this year...

MAF is a mixed bag, but his ceiling is obviously much higher than Mason's.
I think it's close, but you guys do seem to have better depth at forward. I think the 3rd and especially the 4th line of the Flyers is better than that of the Pens. I do agree we have more potential at the blue line but that advantage gets negated because our coach would rather play the likes of Deryk Engelland than our young guns. Also, I think Brooks Orpik has been worse than any Flyer dman this season. All he does is turn the puck over. Really love that Olli Maatta tho. I think him & Matt Niskanen have been our top 2 dmen all season.

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03-01-2014, 02:19 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
My thinking is that maybe we can get a rookie NHL defenseman or highly touted prospect.
Other organizations seem to have better results in picking defensemen than the Flyers.
I would approach one of those clubs seeking a more developed prospect.
I just do not have much faith that the Flyers can develop defensemen,
especially since they have not been successful in the past.
OK.

So you say we can't rely on prospects and young players, and then propose gutting the forward group so we can rely on prospects and young players.

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03-01-2014, 02:41 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoobeeDoobeeDoo View Post
I think it's close, but you guys do seem to have better depth at forward. I think the 3rd and especially the 4th line of the Flyers is better than that of the Pens. I do agree we have more potential at the blue line but that advantage gets negated because our coach would rather play the likes of Deryk Engelland than our young guns. Also, I think Brooks Orpik has been worse than any Flyer dman this season. All he does is turn the puck over. Really love that Olli Maatta tho. I think him & Matt Niskanen have been our top 2 dmen all season.
Brooks Oprik gets a lot of unwarranted criticism due to his price tag. If you think he's been worse than any Flyers d-man, you haven't watched the Flyers very much. Some performances by the defenseman have been ATROCIOUS!

Definitely agree that Niskanen has been solid this year.

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03-01-2014, 02:46 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
Brooks Oprik gets a lot of unwarranted criticism due to his price tag. If you think he's been worse than any Flyers d-man, you haven't watched the Flyers very much. Some performances by the defenseman have been ATROCIOUS!

Definitely agree that Niskanen has been solid this year.
I'm usually a big fan of what Orpik brings to the team but as of late all he does is turn the puck over. It's incredibly frustrating to watch. I might have exaggerated how bad he's been by saying he would be the worst dman on the Flyers, but his play has been very frustrating as of late.

I love what Nisky has done, really stepped up his game big time. We need it with Tang being out.

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03-01-2014, 02:54 PM
  #95
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It's funny, Flyer fans & Penguin fans are known to hate on each others teams, but in reality I think have a tendency to hate on our own teams more than anything else. Grass is greener (or in this case orange/yellow) on the other side.

BTW solid win by the Flyers today.

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03-01-2014, 04:29 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
OK.

So you say we can't rely on prospects and young players, and then propose gutting the forward group so we can rely on prospects and young players.

That is not what I said at all.
I simply said that I have no trust in this organization to develop a defenseman.
They have failed at every attempt in the past to be successful.
Therefore, I would prefer that the Flyers acquire some young NHL ready defensive talent via trade.
Especially since Timmo is like 40 years old and slowing down.
That would at least give the prospects a chance of developing into NHL players.
I hope I am wrong and Morin is the second coming of Weber but I would rather
hedge my bets and bring in some more defensive talent just in case.

As far as trading forwards, I am in favor of trading them to fix this defense.
This team will never succeed until management starts to value defense.
Yes, if necessary I would gut some forwards if it meant I obtained #1 Dman to build this team around.

Why would I gut this forward group at this point?
1)We are not a cup contending team without a much better defense.
2) We have over abundance of offensive talent and little defensive talent.
3) Flyers can spot forward talent in a darkroom blindfolded.
4) The Flyers can always revert to drafting forwards if we run low on centers.

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