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Compare and contrast: Coburn & MacDonald

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Old
10-05-2015, 02:26 PM
  #1
Qyburn
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Compare and contrast: Coburn & MacDonald

As of the middle of last season.

I hope this isn't relegated to another thread as I'd really like to hear about some of the aesthetics from people more knowledgeable than myself. I think if you want to have some of those aesthetics shown to you, it's an excellent and temporally relevant comparison.

Coburn always seemed to me to have an above average promise at everything, and a below average delivery on those expectations.

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10-05-2015, 02:28 PM
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PALE PWNR
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Coburn was awesome at defense and AMac is not?

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10-05-2015, 02:31 PM
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Appleyard
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Coburn is:

Better at defending
Better first pass
Elite at skating
Elite at denying zone entries
A great PKer
Can play vs insane competition and do a good job

Pretty much an ideal 2nd pairing guy on a contender.

MacDonald is an ok #5 who at a stretch can play #4 with a good partner, but on a contender is bottom pairing at best.

The only thing in AMac's favour really is he has a better shot. Also maybe when established in the offensive zone AMac is probably more poised... though in less structured offensive passages Coburn is better. (ie rushes)

Also their 'style' of defensive play is pretty much polar opposite. MacDonald just tries to contain while Coburn tries to disrupt and separate.

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10-05-2015, 02:39 PM
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Coburn was a potential top pairing with a partner like Kimmo.
Without Kimmo he was a bit of a lost sheep, which became evident after he was traded and his performance actually deteriorated on a better team.
In his case the physical talent is top rate, a rare combination of size and speed, the performance is highly dependent on his pairing, which suggests he needs a partner who understands his foibles and can protect him.
A bigger, stronger but less offensively talented version of MDZ, another player whose mind farts often negate his raw talent.

MacDonald is just a guy with basically average size and speed and offensive skills who must use perfect positioning and technique to be a top 4 d-man, unfortunately, he seems to be plagued by inconsistency and doesn't like to challenge forwards at the blue line (which suggests a lack of confidence in his ability to adjust when beaten).

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10-05-2015, 04:10 PM
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Qyburn
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Thanks. You've all been helpful.

But how do they match up on their ability to move pucks to and through the neutral zone? This is an ability that has become highly sought after. And despite their obvious forward-in-a-defenseman's-position characteristics, Timonen and Streit have both been relatively lacking. As has the whole backline. Which is why it begs the comparison now between Coburn's ability at that and MacDonald's ability at that. I think we know which is better. But why? And by how much? And why that much?

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10-05-2015, 04:19 PM
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Hmm let's see

Coburn can:
Skate
Defend
Make a decent outlet pass (you know MacD sucks when I'm saying Coburn can do this)
Play with some balls/actually move people out of front of net
PK

Should I go on?

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Old
10-06-2015, 01:52 AM
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dats81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
Coburn is:

Better at defending
Better first pass
Elite at skating
Elite at denying zone entries
A great PKer
Can play vs insane competition and do a good job

Pretty much an ideal 2nd pairing guy on a contender.

MacDonald is an ok #5 who at a stretch can play #4 with a good partner, but on a contender is bottom pairing at best.

The only thing in AMac's favour really is he has a better shot. Also maybe when established in the offensive zone AMac is probably more poised... though in less structured offensive passages Coburn is better. (ie rushes)

Also their 'style' of defensive play is pretty much polar opposite. MacDonald just tries to contain while Coburn tries to disrupt and separate.
No offense, but if Coburn war ELITE in any aspect of the game, he wouldn't have been such a non-factor the last couple of years.
He is well above average on the defensive side of the game but nowhere close to elite.

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10-06-2015, 06:40 AM
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I miss #5

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Old
10-06-2015, 06:41 AM
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Appleyard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
No offense, but if Coburn war ELITE in any aspect of the game, he wouldn't have been such a non-factor the last couple of years.
He is well above average on the defensive side of the game but nowhere close to elite.
None taken.

Though I did not say he was elite defensively...

I said he was an elite skater (which I feel is hard to argue against) and great at denying opponents the zone. (which stats would indicate is massively the case.)

Also I would say he was great in 2013-14 for us.

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10-06-2015, 08:02 AM
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Qyburn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
I said he was an elite skater (which I feel is hard to argue against)
I have a potential argument against that. His hockey IQ wansn't great, and it caused him not to figure out the right player who to pass to when you're supposed to be planning those thoughts in those moments before the puck finds your stick.

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Old
10-06-2015, 08:07 AM
  #11
Protest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qyburn View Post
I have a potential argument against that. His hockey IQ wansn't great, and it caused him not to figure out the right player who to pass to when you're supposed to be planning those thoughts in those moments before the puck finds your stick.
What does that have to do with the physical activity of skating?

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