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The DeBoer Debate Part 3

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Old
02-23-2014, 04:56 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by MadDevil View Post
No, it's everybody's fault. It's Lou's fault for not clearing up the logjam on defense this past summer. Although he may have wanted to buy Volchenkov out and couldn't because of the ownership situation at the time. He did at least get rid of Tallinder, but should have also gotten rid of Harrold. In the last two summers he's lost three wingers who each scored 30 goals (plus Sykora who had 20) in 2011-12, and has replaced them with Jagr, Ryder, Brunner, and Clowe. I'm sorry, but your offense is going to take a step back. And we weren't exactly blowing people away in 2011-12 either. The best move he made was trading for Schneider, who has been playing out of his mind since the beginning of 2014, and has been let down by the ****astic offense playing in front of him.

It's Pete's fault for overplaying guys like Gionta, Bernier, and Harrold in situations they shouldn't be in, and for leaning on his veterans a little too hard. But he's hardly the only coach in the league who plays favorites or rides his veterans. You can blame him for not doing well with the kids, which personally I think is overblown. I'm sorry, but Josefson has done jack **** in over 100 games in the NHL. The constant crying about how he's being ruined is a bit over the top. Loktionov is one guy I do think Pete hasn't been really good with. Unlike Josefson he at least has shown an ability to produce some offense. I wish he'd get a little more opportunity to play with guys like Jagr, Elias, Ryder, Brunner. Guys who fit his skill set better. On defense, like I've said before, it's all a numbers game. There's really only one open spot for one of the kids (which again goes back to not freeing up the logjam in the offseason) and right now it's Merrill. For as much as people ***** about Pete not trusting kids, he seems to trust Merrill.

It's the players fault for not executing on the ice. There have been too many games where the team has started out slowly. You can blame the coach for that if you want, but on a team that has this many veterans on it, they shouldn't need the coach to get them up for a game. Then there are all the mental errors the players make. Turnovers, blown scoring chances, defensive breakdowns, stupid penalties, etc. At the end of the day, the players are the ones who have to take responsibility for what happens on the ice. Which then brings me to leadership. We hear the same stuff from these players after every loss about how they "need to play better", yet they go out there and do the same stupid **** again. There doesn't seem to be enough accountability from the players themselves.

It's kind of ridiculous to try to lay the blame of what's happening this season on any one party. It's a failure from the organization as a whole that's led to this mess. Some of it is **** luck (like having players get homesick and leave), and some of it is just bad moves (like loyalty contracts and hoarding defensemen). There isn't a quick fix that is going to turn this season around. Firing Pete isn't going to suddenly make this team have more talent. Sure, a different coach might use players differently, but at this point it's like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

What you have discribed is a culture that has existed with the Devils since Pete arrived. That culture is lack of taking ownership of the problems. Players don't bench themselves when they make the mistakes you outlined. That is the coach's job but it doesn't happen unless the player is young. The coaches don't bench themselves for wrong player selection or mix use of a player or for not practicing certain drills. Losing players, giving out bad contracts, not trading away the log jam you spoke of and not adding the right players is not the responsibility of the coaches or the players. So who takes ownership to fix all the **** you have spoken about? Maybe no one just keep delivering the same thing. We have seen the same problems for the past 4 years.

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02-23-2014, 08:41 AM
  #202
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If it is everyone's fault, then it really is Lou's fault.

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Old
02-23-2014, 08:53 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by NC107 View Post
What you have discribed is a culture that has existed with the Devils since Pete arrived. That culture is lack of taking ownership of the problems. Players don't bench themselves when they make the mistakes you outlined. That is the coach's job but it doesn't happen unless the player is young. The coaches don't bench themselves for wrong player selection or mix use of a player or for not practicing certain drills. Losing players, giving out bad contracts, not trading away the log jam you spoke of and not adding the right players is not the responsibility of the coaches or the players. So who takes ownership to fix all the **** you have spoken about? Maybe no one just keep delivering the same thing. We have seen the same problems for the past 4 years.
Lou takes the blame. The way that this team has been built is unacceptable. Losing Kovalchuk was not within his control, but everything else has been terrible decision making. He's extremely conservative when it comes to making moves and improving the team (minus the Schneider trade). There are too many ways to mention that he's ****ed up. Keeping the 29th pick is just one example, and I think Matteau is a solid player. David Clarkson should have been traded at the deadline last year when it was pretty clear the Devils were out of it. He would have brought back a 1st round pick minimum the way he was playing. Re-signing all of Salvador, Zidlicky, and Harrold was poor decision making. The list goes on, but I've lost my confidence in him.

The fact that he says "It's not about scoring goals, it's just scoring them at the right time" is extremely frustrating. Not only does it not make sense, but it shows his attitude towards the lack of offense on this team. I can only imagine what goes through Pete's mind when he looks down at the roster and tries to put some semblance of an offense together.

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Old
02-23-2014, 10:08 AM
  #204
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Everybody except for Barr can get bent.
Whoever is running our PK can stay, everybody else should get fired

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02-23-2014, 05:29 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by NC107 View Post
What you have discribed is a culture that has existed with the Devils since Pete arrived. That culture is lack of taking ownership of the problems. Players don't bench themselves when they make the mistakes you outlined. That is the coach's job but it doesn't happen unless the player is young. The coaches don't bench themselves for wrong player selection or mix use of a player or for not practicing certain drills. Losing players, giving out bad contracts, not trading away the log jam you spoke of and not adding the right players is not the responsibility of the coaches or the players. So who takes ownership to fix all the **** you have spoken about? Maybe no one just keep delivering the same thing. We have seen the same problems for the past 4 years.
Honestly, I don't know. And that's probably the most frustrating thing. This team desperately needs an infusion of speed and skill up front, but I don't know where they get it from. We don't really have it in the system, and we're probably not going to get it through the draft unless we sell for picks and our scouts finally hit on a skilled forward. We seem to do well with two-way/defensive forwards, but not so well with skilled guys (or Europeans in general).

This team has holes that coaching isn't going to fix. Granted, Pete doesn't do himself any favors with some of the personnel decisions he makes, but is he really holding this team back? I mean honestly, what did people expect from this team this year?

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02-24-2014, 01:55 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by MadDevil View Post
Honestly, I don't know. And that's probably the most frustrating thing. This team desperately needs an infusion of speed and skill up front, but I don't know where they get it from. We don't really have it in the system, and we're probably not going to get it through the draft unless we sell for picks and our scouts finally hit on a skilled forward. We seem to do well with two-way/defensive forwards, but not so well with skilled guys (or Europeans in general).

This team has holes that coaching isn't going to fix. Granted, Pete doesn't do himself any favors with some of the personnel decisions he makes, but is he really holding this team back? I mean honestly, what did people expect from this team this year?

The answer to your last question is more than what they have gotten so far if they are honest.

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02-24-2014, 06:01 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by MadDevil View Post
Honestly, I don't know. And that's probably the most frustrating thing. This team desperately needs an infusion of speed and skill up front, but I don't know where they get it from. We don't really have it in the system, and we're probably not going to get it through the draft unless we sell for picks and our scouts finally hit on a skilled forward. We seem to do well with two-way/defensive forwards, but not so well with skilled guys (or Europeans in general).

This team has holes that coaching isn't going to fix. Granted, Pete doesn't do himself any favors with some of the personnel decisions he makes, but is he really holding this team back? I mean honestly, what did people expect from this team this year?
You can find the answer to this in the General Discussion threads back in August & September. General consensus was that this team could score by committee and could make the playoffs as a 7-8 seed.

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Old
03-08-2014, 09:44 AM
  #208
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Bump. Our average team continues to be led by this painfully average coach.

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Old
03-08-2014, 10:00 AM
  #209
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Does he think it costs money to call timeout?

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Old
03-08-2014, 10:31 AM
  #210
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Cant believe he is still coaching a Lou L.team should have been gone 25 games back.

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Old
03-08-2014, 10:34 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Devils Dominion View Post
Does he think it costs money to call timeout?
I wish we had a count of how many he left on the table this year. I stand by my comment a long time back. Can he really be this bad, I believe he is trying to get fired with some of the dumb **** he does.

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Old
03-08-2014, 10:37 AM
  #212
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Probably not as many as people think, people REALLY overstate the timeout criticisms.

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03-08-2014, 11:21 AM
  #213
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Probably not as many as people think, people REALLY overstate the timeout criticisms.
Not the actual count its when he doesn't use them is the problem. There may not have been many left your right, but take them when needed please and this whole issue may not be talked about.

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03-08-2014, 11:25 AM
  #214
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But people act like timeouts are an automatic salve, they're not. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't, it's not a science - although if ever a situation did call for a timeout it was where Babcock called his (and they still gave up a goal after it). If Pete couldn't get them going between seventeen-minute intermissions after the first and the second when they came out flat each time, why should I believe he'd get them going in a thirty second span during the period?

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Old
03-08-2014, 01:10 PM
  #215
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But people act like timeouts are an automatic salve, they're not. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't, it's not a science - although if ever a situation did call for a timeout it was where Babcock called his (and they still gave up a goal after it). If Pete couldn't get them going between seventeen-minute intermissions after the first and the second when they came out flat each time, why should I believe he'd get them going in a thirty second span during the period?
Maybe he could've went TORTS on them and tell them to "WAKE THE F UP!!!" or something.


Instead, I bet he was all like "C'monnnnnn....guyzzzzzzzzz....let's all....like....get it going....or something.....*snore* "

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03-08-2014, 02:09 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by guitarguyvic View Post
Bump. Our average team continues to be led by this painfully average coach.
He's more like a painfully below average coach. 6 years head coaching, 1 playoff berth. The team started being ass when Kovy was still here last year. They were nothing special in the regular season in 11-12 either. Constantly needed shootouts because of constant blown leads. Same things are still going on now. Same things went on in Florida.
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Cant believe he is still coaching a Lou L.team should have been gone 25 games back.
Should have been gone after the 1-10 start IMO. I see no justifiable reason to bring him back next season if we miss the playoffs, and he is indeed up for a new contract. What has he done to earn a new contract? Helped break countless team and franchise records? First Devils coach to miss the playoffs two years in a row in 27 years?

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03-08-2014, 02:12 PM
  #217
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I want a better / more proven coach to replace Pete.....I dont know if thats available right now or this summer?

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03-08-2014, 02:14 PM
  #218
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I want a better / more proven coach to replace Pete.....I dont know if thats available right now or this summer?
I'm about ready to take my chances on Lavs. Wanted no part of him earlier in the year when we were stinking up the joint. I'm really warming up to him now. Pete stinks so bad, that I'm now wanting him.

If his contract is up and we miss the playoffs again, you seriously gotta consider making a coaching change. What's the worse that could happen? We miss the playoffs again under a new coach? We still suck under a new coach? Pete had his chance, now it's time for someone else.

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03-08-2014, 05:38 PM
  #219
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I wouldn't be against Lavs mainly 'cause he can't be any WORSE than Pete.

Although I think even Lou himself could do a better job at coaching but hey....beggars can't be choosers.

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Old
03-08-2014, 10:45 PM
  #220
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Man you guys are brutal in here. Ill tell you right now making the playoffs or not we start the season next year with Pete, so you would be wise to just understand that then annoy yourselves with such minor and stupid criticisms.

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03-08-2014, 10:47 PM
  #221
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Man you guys are brutal in here. Ill tell you right now making the playoffs or not we start the season next year with Pete, so you would be wise to just understand that then annoy yourselves with such minor and stupid criticisms.
Why do you think we'll start the season with us next year? If we flounder around, I can really see Lou not bringing him back. You really gotta consider cutting ties with him if his contract is indeed up. Cause if we do miss the playoffs, what exactly will Pete have done to earn another contract? Please enlighten me. None of this ''We made the damn finals with two elite forwards in 2012'' crap either.

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03-08-2014, 10:49 PM
  #222
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Man you guys are brutal in here. Ill tell you right now making the playoffs or not we start the season next year with Pete, so you would be wise to just understand that then annoy yourselves with such minor and stupid criticisms.
this is a forum

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03-08-2014, 10:57 PM
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
Why do you think we'll start the season with us next year? If we flounder around, I can really see Lou not bringing him back. You really gotta consider cutting ties with him if his contract is indeed up. Cause if we do miss the playoffs, what exactly will Pete have done to earn another contract? Please enlighten me. None of this ''We made the damn finals with two elite forwards in 2012'' crap either.
Lou like Pete, Lou likes that the team always competes all the time and fights for every inch of the ice every night. Pete still has the team, they still listen and play for him. Its more of a personal issue then blaming Pete for this teams struggles. I also dont blame Lou because sometimes you cant fix massive holes that people like Kovy and Parise leave when they left this team, players like them dont grow on trees. There is no hiding the fact that with the right players Pete and his system can work and you know that by the trip to the finals.

The trip to the finals will give him another year, the fact that we are even talking about the playoffs right now will prob give him another year. If we make them next season then my guess is you'll see him back again, if we miss next year he will prob get the boot.

I dont really care either way, i for one dont think everything thats wrong with this team is his fault like some people want to, if he gets fired great whos next, if he stays great. I am sick of new coaches all the damn time, new systems, all that crap. If Pete still has the team and they are still playing hard for him that Lou will keep him, by the time they let him go this thread could be part 100.

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this is a forum
Ha your right and that was prob not the right way to put it. I prob also shouldnt have wondered in here i just feel like someone needs to defend the guy a little.

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Old
03-08-2014, 11:06 PM
  #224
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Ha your right and that was prob not the right way to put it. I prob also shouldnt have wondered in here i just feel like someone needs to defend the guy a little.
everybodys opinion is cool as long as we dont call each other out
if we didnt have such contrast in opinions there would only be a few threads with a few posts!
(dont go in the Cory vs Marty thread...thats a zoo!)

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03-11-2014, 07:54 PM
  #225
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This guy is way too loyal to guys who were here in 2012. It is going to single handedly cost us a playoff spot.

He needs to go. He can't manage a roster.

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