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Trade Rumor/Speculation Thread XIX: The Olympic Freeze

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Old
02-17-2014, 09:24 AM
  #576
Trxjw
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
I think you are looking at those deals too much in hindsight. Oduya was, and is still, a top 4 defender. Bergfors was having a very good rookie season and was a former 1st round pick. Cormier was a talented, former 2nd rounder who got into some trouble with suspensions.

Armstrong was 24 yo, former 1st rounder, and had 98 points in 181 games. Christensen was 23 yo, 66 points in 143 games. Esposito was a recent 1st round pick.

Sure, looking back we can say it turned out poorly for atlanta, but that's a lot of value. 2 young roster players, a 1st round prospect and a 1st round pick for Hossa. 2 roster players, a 2nd round prospect and a 1st round pick for Kovalchuk.

I don't think anyone is asking that much for Callahan, but he is certainly worth a 1st round prospect at least. Chicago just drafted Ryan Hartman 30th overall. Would it be crazy to think we could get Hartman and a 2nd or 3rd for Callahan? I don't think it is. That's far, far less than what Hossa and Kovalchuk got traded for.
Hindsight only proves what was obvious at the time. Armstrong was a broken down player who could never stay healthy. Esposito was a head case that was trending downward very quickly. A reclamation prospect at best. Christensen didn't have the brains for NHL hockey. The Thrashers whiffed with the pick.

Same goes for the Kovalchuk deal. Oduya was the only decent piece there aside from the pick. Cormier was a C level prospect at best. Bergfors wasn't smart enough for the NHL. The pick is still up in the air I suppose.

I don't think a prospect and a 1st rounder for Callahan is unreasonable, but I can certainly point you to plenty of posts where people think he's going to get a blue chipper or replacement roster player++ back in the deal. I also see Chicago being thrown around here as a trade option, but really, what use would they have for Callahan?

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02-17-2014, 10:27 AM
  #577
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There is not a team in NHL that couldn't use Ryan Callahan. With that said the teams that would trade for him are the Bostons, Chicago's, San Jose, LA, Pitt, etc; the teams that have a realistic shot at the SC. Our trading partners are limited to those few teams; this is a short term deal. If Sather can generate a bidding war with contending teams we should get a 1st and a decent player in return. Nobody that trades for Cally is looking at him past June. This a decision that a GM has to make, will Cally make my team better.

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02-17-2014, 10:28 AM
  #578
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The new playoff format sees the 2nd and 3rd place teams in the division face off in first round. LA and SJ look destined to face each other. The Rangers could play them against each other or if one team makes a move then the other could respond. SJ gets Callahan and LA gets Moulson. Anaheim is winning that division and they would face the winner of the 2/3 matchup barring the worst WC upsetting Anaheim. The SJ pick won't be a bottom 4 pick in that scenario or maybe even a bottom 6-8 pick. It depends upon what the other teams do. Montreal got a #1 pick and Gorges(prospect at the time)for Rivet(rental) and a 5th. Pacioretty was taken with that pick at #22. Something like that for Callahan.


Last edited by RangerBoy: 02-17-2014 at 10:33 AM.
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02-17-2014, 10:40 AM
  #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Hindsight only proves what was obvious at the time. Armstrong was a broken down player who could never stay healthy. Esposito was a head case that was trending downward very quickly. A reclamation prospect at best. Christensen didn't have the brains for NHL hockey. The Thrashers whiffed with the pick.

Same goes for the Kovalchuk deal. Oduya was the only decent piece there aside from the pick. Cormier was a C level prospect at best. Bergfors wasn't smart enough for the NHL. The pick is still up in the air I suppose.
Lots of revisionist history there. Esposito was trending down, but he was still highly regarded. Christensen was in, essentially, his sophomore season producing at about a 40 point pace. Armstrong was settling in as a 3rd liner, but your point about not being able to stay healthy isn't correct, since he only missed 2 games the year before and 3 games that season up to that point. His injury problems didn't start until two years later. There wasn't much reason to doubt Christensen or Armstrong as good pieces at that point and most were still somewhat high on Esposito.

I tend to agree about the Kovalchuk trade, though.

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02-17-2014, 10:43 AM
  #580
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The new playoff format sees the 2nd and 3rd place teams in the division face off in first round. LA and SJ look destined to face each other. The Rangers could play them against each other or if one team makes a move then the other could respond. SJ gets Callahan and LA gets Moulson. Anaheim is winning that division and they would face the winner of the 2/3 matchup barring the worst WC upsetting Anaheim. The SJ pick won't be a bottom 4 pick in that scenario or maybe even a bottom 6-8 pick. It depends upon what the other teams do. Montreal got a #1 pick and Gorges(prospect at the time)for Rivet(rental) and a 5th. Pacioretty was taken with that pick at #22. Something like that for Callahan.
I think a first round pick and a B-level prospect would be about all you could expect for Callahan. If they're getting a NHL roster player back that is anything more than a cap dump, I'd say that in addition to him you'd get a C-level prospect or 2nd/3rd round pick back.

I think LA probably has the inside track on Moulson. They need a LW and they have the better assets to move.

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02-17-2014, 10:53 AM
  #581
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Lots of revisionist history there. Esposito was trending down, but he was still highly regarded. Christensen was in, essentially, his sophomore season producing at about a 40 point pace. Armstrong was settling in as a 3rd liner, but your point about not being able to stay healthy isn't correct, since he only missed 2 games the year before and 3 games that season up to that point. His injury problems didn't start until two years later. There wasn't much reason to doubt Christensen or Armstrong as good pieces at that point and most were still somewhat high on Esposito.

I tend to agree about the Kovalchuk trade, though.
I dunno what to tell you other than that I know for certain that the Penguins had soured tremendously on Esposito at the time of the trade. He had no future with that team. They were also not terribly impressed with Christensen's ability to play in the NHL. He was 24 and had taken a considerable step back from his 06-07 season. His decision making on the ice and puck control were major question marks. The skill was undeniable, the ability to put it into practice was not.

Armstrong was the value piece, but again, he was a player who was always nursing an injury. To his credit he rarely missed time, but during the broadcasts there was always some mention of him playing hurt.

Still, even if you consider Christensen and Armstrong as good pieces, Hossa was a considerably better player at the time of the deal than Callahan is currently.

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02-17-2014, 11:04 AM
  #582
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Wasn't Pascal Dupuis part of that deal, too? The Thrashers got hosed in that deal - like they usually did.

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02-17-2014, 11:11 AM
  #584
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Except when we deal our own players... the most we expect is mediocrity. Not possible that another team will overpay... or over pay grossly.

That's how it works, right?
The problem here is that if you can't sign Callahan before the deadline and agree to a deal then you have to trade him.

You can't expect a Hossa-type return for Callahan and even that didn't work out all that well for the Thrashers. Callahan should fetch a 1st and a roster player. That's about all I'd expect for him. And that does little to help this Rangers team NOW.

A bad position to be in when you're a playoff team.

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02-17-2014, 11:12 AM
  #585
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And, to add to that, if I were the Rangers I'd want a 2015 1st, not a 2014 1st, as that draft is a lot stronger than the upcoming one.

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02-17-2014, 11:28 AM
  #587
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Rangers were supposed to start working on Girardi's contract this week, right? Lets hope this deal gets done before the end of the week.

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02-17-2014, 11:47 AM
  #588
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Originally Posted by nrf83 View Post
There is not a team in NHL that couldn't use Ryan Callahan. With that said the teams that would trade for him are the Bostons, Chicago's, San Jose, LA, Pitt, etc; the teams that have a realistic shot at the SC. Our trading partners are limited to those few teams; this is a short term deal. If Sather can generate a bidding war with contending teams we should get a 1st and a decent player in return. Nobody that trades for Cally is looking at him past June. This a decision that a GM has to make, will Cally make my team better.
Callahan for Toffoli and a 1st Round Pick.

Boom

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02-17-2014, 11:52 AM
  #590
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I still think getting Toffoli in a Callahan trade is a pipe-dream. Let alone a 1st rounder on top.

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02-17-2014, 11:53 AM
  #591
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
I think that's the most pertinent trade idea that has been on these boards (it has surfaced in the past).

It makes too much sense for both parties.
Would definitely do it, although I believe Toffoli is a Righty shot as well...

His position he was drafted in was C... I wonder if there is a silver lining inside the gold pot here?

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02-17-2014, 11:56 AM
  #593
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I still think getting Toffoli in a Callahan trade is a pipe-dream. Let alone a 1st rounder on top.
IT may seem like it, but they are 2-8 in their last 10 leading up to the olympic break. That's bad, and they can't say they had a good "start" to counter a slump in the middle of the season (mostly because they were average at best to start this season). They need to start winning games, because they have the roster to do it (we've already seen it 2 years ago)

I don't know what the status of the Kings Roster, but that type of trade is the type of trade you make... Trading with a cup contender who wants that final piece.

Give me a high level/NHL Ready prospect and a 1st round pick (2014 or 2015), and in return I'll send you an NHL proven player and a 7th round pick to push you through your playoff run.

Again, all dependent on whether or not the Kings want to resign him

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02-17-2014, 11:57 AM
  #594
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I still think getting Toffoli in a Callahan trade is a pipe-dream. Let alone a 1st rounder on top.
That's because it is.

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02-17-2014, 12:03 PM
  #595
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Rangers were supposed to start working on Girardi's contract this week, right? Lets hope this deal gets done before the end of the week.
Yea this is the biggest story right now since girardi could be dealt too.

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02-17-2014, 12:06 PM
  #596
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I have been saying for a while.

Stewart + Schmaltz + EDM 2nd/STL 1st

It makes sense for the now and the future.

Backes and Callahan have been playing together in the Olympics. Thank you Bylsma.

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02-17-2014, 12:12 PM
  #598
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Yea this is the biggest story right now since girardi could be dealt too.
If girardi is dealt...

I dont even want to think about what a downgrade that will be to our defense. Not that Allen/McIlrath cant slot in, but we would need at least a 2nd pairing Defenseman back in that kind of trade.

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02-17-2014, 12:20 PM
  #599
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Why? Teams overpay to get far into the playoffs. LA could be looking at a 1st round exit. Toffoli is on their 4th line and a resigned Callahan mean the highest he can go on RW is the 3rd line for the next 5-6 years.

They'll have a low first most likely.
LA could be be looking at a first round exit, yes. That would be the case with or without Callahan.

And why would Toffoli be limited to 3RW with a signed Callahan? I'll bet Toffoli is a better even-strength producer as early as next year.

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02-17-2014, 12:20 PM
  #600
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Better players than Ryan Callahan have been traded and the Rangers somehow managed to survive. Some fans won't like it but too bad. The team goes on. Callahan doesn't have a contract for next season. Why should Callahan bring back more than previous rentals? The twenty something year old Ranger fans will find another hero. There will be always other players.

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