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Trade Rumor/Speculation Thread XIX: The Olympic Freeze

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Old
02-18-2014, 04:26 PM
  #776
NYR Viper
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
RangerBlue said nothing about production relative to salary.

RGY used stats to disprove what he was saying.

Boyle is grittier and tougher. He may not be strong on his skates and thus he may be at a disadvantage when he fights, but he's much much tougher than Moore. He sticks up for his team mates and he hits hard. He sells out more than anyone not named Ryan Callahan. When there is a scrum, Boyle's the one who goes in first.

Moore and Boyle are not comparable.

The comparison shouldn't be between them but Moore and Lindberg.

Lindberg is cheaper and will likely produce better than Moore on the 4th line. He's likely defensively just as responsible and can be used in the same situations Moore is used in. Additionally, since both aren't the most physical players and have similar physical frames and skill sets... they should be the ones compared when it comes to substitution on the 4th line.
So you're good with giving Boyle 2.5+ million?

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Old
02-18-2014, 04:36 PM
  #778
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I disagree. No one on any team's fourth line should make that much. It's a bad allocation of cap space, plain and simple.

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Old
02-18-2014, 04:44 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
With the cap going up to 75-80 million in the next 2-3 years, a 2 mill cap hit could be relative to a 1.5 mill cap hit currently.
This x1000.

I understand how people are thinking right NOW because they have gotten used to where the cap has relatively been the last 3-4 years. $2.2-$2.5 million would've been excessive back then. And that's why we just could not re-sign Prust. But with the cap going up, salaries go up. There will be more 4th liners making over the $2 million mark.

I agree with KJ, Boyle is worth keeping for all the reasons he mentioned above. We simply cannot keep reconstructing the roster every year. What was the point of re-signing Henrik long term then? Every year we are going to let veteran rangers walk away because are too worried about him being paid $500k-$1million more than what we think he is worth? I also think Moore should stay. Who are they blocking? Lindberg? Fast? Miller? Those guys shouldn't be on the 4th line anyways.

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Old
02-18-2014, 05:06 PM
  #781
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Originally Posted by SwedishBullet62 View Post
I dont see Sather moving Boyle, I think during the offseason its going to be a take it or leave it type situation, Boyle's great defensively and works hard but if we can get Dom Moore on a better deal for longer you do it, their face-off stats have been similar this season which is a plus.

Also a fun fact I heard about the other day, we basically traded Mark Messier for Ryan Callahan in 2003 when we traded Messiers rights to the Sharks for future considerations. So whoever we trade Callahan for we are trading Messier for
Doesn't Calgary has some kind of streak like this going too? X for Nieuwendyk for Iginla or something like that?

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02-18-2014, 05:08 PM
  #782
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Doesn't Calgary has some kind of streak like this going too? X for Nieuwendyk for Iginla or something like that?
They drafted Nieuwendyk.

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02-18-2014, 05:12 PM
  #783
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On Boyle, the extra 2m you have to spend on him on a 4th line pays off real well higher up in the lineup. Nobody would turn down Cally at 4.5m. You can either have Boyle on our 4th at 2.75m per and a 4m winger or someone making 750k there and a 6m winger.

I like Boyle and agree with anyone who thinks he is valuble for us. But, I believe that the money is better spent elsewhere.

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Old
02-18-2014, 05:18 PM
  #784
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
They drafted Nieuwendyk.
They acquired that pick in a deal for Kent Nilsson.

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Old
02-18-2014, 05:23 PM
  #785
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Originally Posted by SwedishBullet62 View Post
Also a fun fact I heard about the other day, we basically traded Mark Messier for Ryan Callahan in 2003 when we traded Messiers rights to the Sharks for future considerations. So whoever we trade Callahan for we are trading Messier for
That wasn't Messier. It was Leetch. Leetch to Edmonton for Jussi Markkanen and a 4th in '04.

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Old
02-18-2014, 05:29 PM
  #786
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
what some fans don't get is usually teams in the Rangers position try to add and they don't move valuable UFA players.

Yea the Rangers may lose first round or they may blow it and not even make the playoffs but if they are in the same spot come the deadline which they likely are then they don't move a Pker and good face off guy for a pick. Teams like Edmonton and Florida do cause they need a complete rebuild
Very good point. Actually, if the Rangers can resist the temptation to gamble on a Cup run that won't happen this year (they can be good, but probably no better than last year), they are in a very strong position to sell a player like Boyle to another contender looking to add pieces for the playoff run.

Boyle's a 4th liner on a team that wins -- and much more valuable than a 4th-liner/borderline AHL'er on a team that loses.

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02-18-2014, 05:37 PM
  #787
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
That wasn't Messier. It was Leetch. Leetch to Edmonton for Jussi Markkanen and a 4th in '04.
no it was messier. we picked cally with the pick we got from SJ for this UFA rights before they closed that loophole

the pick we got in that leetch trade was the 113th pick which a year later we sent to Toronto with Leetch for a pile of garbage.

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Old
02-18-2014, 05:39 PM
  #788
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
That wasn't Messier. It was Leetch. Leetch to Edmonton for Jussi Markkanen and a 4th in '04.
Didn't Leetch get traded to Toronto? I believe The 4th round pick used on Callahan was acquired from San Jose in exchange for the rights to Mark Messier. Wasn't that it?

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Old
02-18-2014, 05:49 PM
  #789
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Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
no it was messier. we picked cally with the pick we got from SJ for this UFA rights before they closed that loophole

the pick we got in that leetch trade was the 113th pick which a year later we sent to Toronto with Leetch for a pile of garbage.
So it is. http://www.prosportstransactions.com...Years/2004.htm

I was misled by an article talking about UFA trades from a couple of years back.

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Old
02-18-2014, 05:50 PM
  #790
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
On Boyle, the extra 2m you have to spend on him on a 4th line pays off real well higher up in the lineup. Nobody would turn down Cally at 4.5m. You can either have Boyle on our 4th at 2.75m per and a 4m winger or someone making 750k there and a 6m winger.

I like Boyle and agree with anyone who thinks he is valuble for us. But, I believe that the money is better spent elsewhere.
Ola nailed it. Exactly how I feel. I don't hate Boyle, but he will in no way be worth his $2.5-3 million price tag.

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Old
02-18-2014, 05:53 PM
  #791
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Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
With the cap going up to 75-80 million in the next 2-3 years, a 2 mill cap hit could be relative to a 1.5 mill cap hit currently.
Great, another "we can give out a stupid contract because the cap is going up" argument.

I'd laugh and show Boyle the door if he wanted a hair over $2 mill.

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Old
02-18-2014, 06:14 PM
  #793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
no it was messier. we picked cally with the pick we got from SJ for this UFA rights before they closed that loophole

the pick we got in that leetch trade was the 113th pick which a year later we sent to Toronto with Leetch for a pile of garbage.
Rangers got Mike Sauer from that trade. 2nd round pick, #40. No one could have predicted what happened to Mike. If he were still healthy, we wouldn't hate the trade so much right now.

Leetch was my favorite player of all-time. It was gutting to see him go. But, we got a fantastic player out of that trade, that would have been a building block for the team moving forward.

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Old
02-18-2014, 06:14 PM
  #794
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Modest raises for all..

that 2nd line = trash, Moulson is a place holder for any $6M winger.

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster

FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($1.500m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Matt Moulson ($6.000m) / Brad Richards ($6.667m) / Carl Hagelin ($2.250m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.500m) / Derick Brassard ($3.900m) / Mats Zuccarello ($1.150m)
Brian Boyle ($2.000m) / Dominic Moore ($1.200m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.800m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Anton Stralman ($2.750m)
John Moore ($1.300m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Justin Falk ($1.024m) /

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)

BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,186,250; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $913,750

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Old
02-18-2014, 06:14 PM
  #795
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This isn't a video game. We can't go into next year with 20 guys on ELCs, Nash, Lundqvist, Mcdonagh, Stepan, and Hags. We need to sign some of our own players. We have to have some continuity.

How do you replace Boyle? You all want to learn from past mistakes. Prust? HUGE mistake, in my opinion.

Trading Callahan may be the best thing. It may not be. I don't know.

I use these boards to get insight into the team. The latest rumors and news is posted here fairly quickly. I rarely share my opinions. I usually enjoy reading all of your posts. But I cannot wait until Callahan is traded or signed, so I don't have to read about how smart you all are, how many degrees you have, everybody trying to flex their intellectual muscles. I'm in law school. What the hell does that have to do with anything? Like someone posted earlier, you're on a forum sharing your opinions. Some people want to trade Callahan, and others don't. Neither faction is stupid. It's an opinion. Opinions do not need to be rooted in facts nor even logic. And none of us are in a position to impact the decisions made by management. I love to argue about sports, especially with those who know what they are talking about. But this has been 25 pages of "you're stupid if you don't think like me," back and forth, while simultaneously trying to claim that you're not doing that. This isn't addressed at anybody, just collectively, I think there's more to discuss than things such as the degrees one has.

/endrant

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Old
02-18-2014, 06:17 PM
  #796
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Originally Posted by jerseyjinx94 View Post
You all want to learn from past mistakes. Prust? HUGE mistake, in my opinion.
I agree.

But let's not get too wrapped up in Montreal's mistakes.

^ See what I did there?

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Old
02-18-2014, 06:22 PM
  #798
jerseyjinx94
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I agree.

But let's not get too wrapped up in Montreal's mistakes.

^ See what I did there?
This is where I tell you you're stupid for not thinking like me, I presume?

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Old
02-18-2014, 06:23 PM
  #799
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Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
Honestly, sometimes I think people just want to make things up and claim them as fact just to argue with others.

Where are these Boyle 2.5-3 mill/yr numbers coming from with Boyle?

He is making 1.7 now. His offensive production is rather low and has been for 2 years now. He hasn't had the best contract year for negotiations.

Are people just pulling numbers out of their but so they can justify removing him from the line up?
http://capgeek.com/player/382

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Old
02-18-2014, 06:23 PM
  #800
TheTakedown
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Originally Posted by jerseyjinx94 View Post
This isn't a video game. We can't go into next year with 20 guys on ELCs, Nash, Lundqvist, Mcdonagh, Stepan, and Hags. We need to sign some of our own players. We have to have some continuity.

How do you replace Boyle? You all want to learn from past mistakes. Prust? HUGE mistake, in my opinion.

Trading Callahan may be the best thing. It may not be. I don't know.

I use these boards to get insight into the team. The latest rumors and news is posted here fairly quickly. I rarely share my opinions. I usually enjoy reading all of your posts. But I cannot wait until Callahan is traded or signed, so I don't have to read about how smart you all are, how many degrees you have, everybody trying to flex their intellectual muscles. I'm in law school. What the hell does that have to do with anything? Like someone posted earlier, you're on a forum sharing your opinions. Some people want to trade Callahan, and others don't. Neither faction is stupid. It's an opinion. Opinions do not need to be rooted in facts nor even logic. And none of us are in a position to impact the decisions made by management. I love to argue about sports, especially with those who know what they are talking about. But this has been 25 pages of "you're stupid if you don't think like me," back and forth, while simultaneously trying to claim that you're not doing that. This isn't addressed at anybody, just collectively, I think there's more to discuss than things such as the degrees one has.

/endrant
I tend to agree with this. It's not that any of them are wrong/right, but if these people were as smart as they talk, they should be running a hockey team. I know I cant'...

Furthermore, I'm really getting sick of people slotting in minor leaguers for bonafide roster players... I was at a wolf pack game this weekend, and goodness... with the exception of Fast (miller was just a mess, looked like a stupid college hockey player), NONE of these guys are ready for time with the big club. Moreso, why are we making room for them on the 4th line? So we can save $2M in cap space in TOTAL in Boyle and Moore?!?! That's the definition of penny wise but dollar foolish. Oh, but we can't invest in Moulson or Vanek, + Richards needs to GO GO GO...

You can't run a team like this, simple facts..

Management has done a great job handling the Callahan situation, so there shouldn't be any reason for panic.

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