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Are the Avs really better than us?

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Old
08-15-2005, 01:14 AM
  #26
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I'd say it's pretty even, Stars bottom two d-parings don't look great.

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08-15-2005, 01:25 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasbro
I'd say it's pretty even, Stars bottom two d-parings don't look great.
I'd call it even too (though I'm still waiting for someone to do a comparison of who the Avs lost vs. who they gained). The Avs were notably better than the Stars last season, and they appear to have lost more than the Stars in the meanwhile, bringing the teams to a more even level.

I'm not worried about the second d-pairing (Klemm-Skoula probably, which was reasonably solid when they were paired with the Avs way back when). The third concerns me, but I think that's going to be a recurring trend around the league.

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08-15-2005, 01:27 AM
  #28
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Unless you can get Bourque with him you'll be pulling your hair out with Skoula.

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08-15-2005, 01:31 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasbro
Unless you can get Bourque with him you'll be pulling your hair out with Skoula.
*laughs* Sounds like we got ourselves a puck-handling Matvichuk.

"No, Matty no! You pass it that way. To the dark shirt, moron!" *sigh* "Matty, don't do that. No.... c'mon, idiot. Clear it. CLEAR IT!" *facepalm* "I hate you Matty, do you know that? Cause you should."

Good times were had by all.

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08-15-2005, 01:34 AM
  #30
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Yep and he isn't going to injure anybody in the playoffs either.

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08-15-2005, 05:01 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
How is Colorado's defense questionable?

We have 7 NHL defenseman... you guys have 4, if that.
I'm curious to know what you consider an NHL defenseman then..

Anyway, like it or not, both bluelines are extremely alike.

Without going to say who's better, (and I hope nobody else will do so to prevent a pissing match):

Sergei Zubov vs Rob Blake - Two top 10 defenders and top notch #1's.
Philippe Boucher vs Ossi Vaananen - Physical imposing two-way defenders.
Jon Klemm vs Karlis Skrastins - Purely one-sided defensive defensemen.
Trevor Daley vs JM Liles - Offensively gifted youngsters.
Martin Skoula vs Patrice Brisebois - Two supposed pylons who contribute offensively.
Stephane Robidas vs Kurt Sauer - Two relatively young 3rd pairing defensemen.
John Erskine vs Bob Boughner - Tough, physical spare defensemen.

Like I said, without adding who's better, both bluelines are build extremely simular..

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08-15-2005, 09:02 AM
  #32
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If you could compare Turgeon to a Colorado player.. who would you choose?
(As you said, without discussing who's better)

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08-15-2005, 09:23 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brazilian Avs Fan
If you could compare Turgeon to a Colorado player.. who would you choose?
(As you said, without discussing who's better)
There's none.. Not on the Avs nor on the Stars.. He's a skilled, but soft playmaker on the decline..

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08-15-2005, 10:19 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
Martin Skoula vs Patrice Brisebois - Two supposed pylons who contribute offensively.
You never heard of puck poise, right?

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08-15-2005, 10:22 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
You never heard of puck poise, right?
Ouch.. can't believe I forgot that. It's that I didn't want to start a "who's better" post, but Skoula really owns every one of them with his puckpoise.

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08-15-2005, 10:42 AM
  #36
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So Skoula's puck poise by itself makes your D much, much better than Colorado's IMO.

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08-15-2005, 12:07 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
I'm curious to know what you consider an NHL defenseman then..
I'd consider an NHL defenseman somebody who spends the entire year with the big club, has playoff experience and has at least played a full season.

Colorado has 7 of them.

Dallas has 5.

Blake > Zubov
Vaananen > Boucher
Skrastins > Klemm
Briesbois > Skoula
Liles > Daley
Boughner > Robidas
Sauer =/< Erskine

I don't see how it's not clear-cut.

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08-15-2005, 12:24 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
I'd consider an NHL defenseman somebody who spends the entire year with the big club, has playoff experience and has at least played a full season.

Colorado has 7 of them.

Dallas has 5.

Blake > Zubov
Vaananen > Boucher
Skrastins > Klemm
Briesbois > Skoula
Liles > Daley
Boughner > Robidas
Sauer =/< Erskine

I don't see how it's not clear-cut.
I agree. I'd take the Avs D over the Stars with ease.

And Brisebois is Norris calibre compared to Skoula.

I'm amazed that anyone was willing to pay Skoula $1.5mil. Total ripoff.

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08-15-2005, 12:28 PM
  #39
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For an objective view (at least not concerned by both) :
Blake > Zubov (not much)
Vaananen = Boucher
Skrastins = Klemm
Brisebois < Skoula
Liles = Daley
Boughner > Robidas
I'd say the top 6 of both teams is close.

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08-15-2005, 12:29 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Howdy
I agree. I'd take the Avs D over the Stars with ease.

And Brisebois is Norris calibre compared to Skoula.

I'm amazed that anyone was willing to pay Skoula $1.5mil. Total ripoff.
I completely disagree. To me Brisebois is as close to worthless as it is. Skoula is OK. Nothing more, nothing less.

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08-15-2005, 12:29 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
For an objective view (at least not concerned by both) :
Blake > Zubov (not much)
Vaananen = Boucher
Skrastins = Klemm
Brisebois < Skoula
Liles = Daley
Boughner > Robidas
I'd say the top 6 of both teams is close.


You've got to be kidding.

EDIT: Agree to disagree then. Skoula is brutal. He played on a great team an was still brutal. Brisebois played on a bad Habs team for years ...yet still put up some respectable numbers. He's not nearly as bad as some Hab fans would lead you to believe.


Last edited by Zodiac: 08-15-2005 at 12:35 PM.
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08-15-2005, 12:29 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Howdy
I'm amazed that anyone was willing to pay Skoula $1.5mil. Total ripoff.
When one is so poised with the puck at your stick, you cost alot of money.

I'm sure there were 28 teams vying for Martin Skoula's services, with Colorado and Anaheim both staying away.

After Dallas, there'll be 27 teams vying for him, and so on, and so on.

He has played 70 career playoff games by the age of 25, so that's got to count for something... right? RIGHT!?!

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08-15-2005, 12:34 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
For an objective view (at least not concerned by both) :
Blake > Zubov (not much)
Vaananen = Boucher
Skrastins = Klemm
Brisebois < Skoula
Liles = Daley
Boughner > Robidas
I'd say the top 6 of both teams is close.
Have you watched Jon Klemm play in the past two years? He's been downright awful, IMO. Karlis Skrastins is the NHL's current iron-man and has been awesome for the Avalanche.

Martin Skoula is better than Patrice Briesbois in what world exactly?

Trevor Daley has played 27 career games, posted 6 points, was a -6. JM Liles has played 79 games, conversely, and has 34 points with a +7. Furthermore, for these two 'offensively gifted defensemen,' Daley has 1 goal in 27 games whereas Liles has 10 in 79. Daley has a ton to prove and improve upon, and Liles is the far better player at the moment.

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08-15-2005, 12:44 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Have you watched Jon Klemm play in the past two years? He's been downright awful, IMO. Karlis Skrastins is the NHL's current iron-man and has been awesome for the Avalanche.

Martin Skoula is better than Patrice Briesbois in what world exactly?

Trevor Daley has played 27 career games, posted 6 points, was a -6. JM Liles has played 79 games, conversely, and has 34 points with a +7. Furthermore, for these two 'offensively gifted defensemen,' Daley has 1 goal in 27 games whereas Liles has 10 in 79. Daley has a ton to prove and improve upon, and Liles is the far better player at the moment.
Agree with all this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
For an objective view (at least not concerned by both) :
Blake > Zubov (not much)
Vaananen = Boucher
Skrastins = Klemm
Brisebois < Skoula
Liles = Daley
Boughner > Robidas
I'd say the top 6 of both teams is close.
My take on it ...

Blake > Zubov (considerable amount ...Blake is still top 5, and maybe top 3 dman in the NHL.)
Vaananen > Boucher
Skrastins > Klemm
Brisebois >>>>> Skoula (no contest at all. I'd take the Avs 7th dman Sauer over Skoula.)
Liles >> Daley (Liles was one of the best rookies last season and one of the best young dmen in the NHL. As Pierre '********' McGuire said ...'Liles is the western conference version of Brian Rafalski')
Boughner > Robidas

Just my take on it.

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08-15-2005, 12:48 PM
  #45
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I don't see Blake as top 5 defenseman these days. And I still see Zubov as a true number one, so that makes the difference not so large in my book.
Vaananen is OK, but nothing's special IMO, and I like Klemm as much as Skrastins. Sure Klemm hasn't played as well as he can, but he's still useful in a lot of situations and he has much more experience.
Finally, Liles has proven more, I won't dispute that, but I like Daley's upside better.
I will give you that Liles should still be better this year.

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08-15-2005, 12:51 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
I don't see Blake as top 5 defenseman these days.
He was largely considered the front runner to win his 2nd Norris trophy last season until he broke his leg.

I think he could very well be top 3 ...let alone top 5.

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08-15-2005, 12:55 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Howdy
He was largely considered the front runner to win his 2nd Norris trophy last season until he broke his leg.

I think he could very well be top 3 ...let alone top 5.
Then again, on the Penguins board, Evilo said Ric Jackman would be a top 2 defenseman on any team in the league, and that Jackman in a Penguins jersey was almost flawless.


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08-15-2005, 12:59 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Then again, on the Penguins board, Evilo said Ric Jackman would be a top 2 defenseman on any team in the league, and that Jackman in a Penguins jersey was almost flawless.

Ric Jackman top 2?

Ouch!

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08-15-2005, 01:09 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
I'd consider an NHL defenseman somebody who spends the entire year with the big club, has playoff experience and has at least played a full season.

Colorado has 7 of them.

Dallas has 5.

Blake > Zubov
Vaananen > Boucher
Skrastins > Klemm
Briesbois > Skoula
Liles > Daley
Boughner > Robidas
Sauer =/< Erskine

I don't see how it's not clear-cut.
Oh oh, why did you go comparing them..

I'll start..

Zubov vs Blake.. Blake is more physical, but that's the only edge he has. Both are equally sound defensively though Blake can handle stronger forwards more easier than Zubov can due to his physical edge. Zubov is more offensively talented and should be in for quite a year with these new rules. Small edge to Blake for his physical prowess..

Boucher vs Vaananen.. Boucher wins in every regard. He's been the Stars best defenseman ever since his debute, outplaying Zubov, Hatcher, Sydor, Numminen and Matvichuk over that course. He's consistent, can put up over 30 points a season and is an imposing force in his own zone. Vaananen is getting better each year, but he's not as consistent nor as offensively productive just yet. Boucher with a definite edge..

Klemm vs Skrastins.. Jon Klemm is a physicaly and defensively sound defenseman whith a lot of experience, including two Stanley Cup Rings, also capable of 15/25 points a year. Skrastins is a lot of the same but with no playoff experience whatsoever. Never surpassed 17 points either. Klemm has not been awful for the Stars these past 50 something games. I don't see the supposed edge. Very equal..

Daley vs Liles.. Odds are pretty good that Daley might end up with more points than JM Liles at the end of the year. Daley's superior skating will come in handy with the new rules as he can rush the puck from end to end like no one else. Liles is older and is more proven, ofcourse, so I can see the edge as of right now, but that's only because Daley has yet to play a full season.

Skoula vs Brisebois.. I thought Skoula was pretty solid for the Ducks last year, Duck fans even seemed to agree. Skoula has never scored below 25 points and has shown flashes of brilliance at times, however, his defensive brainfarts overshadow anything good he's done. Brisebois is a lot of the same, his own fans boo'd him for several seasons and gave him the nickname "breeze-by".. The hope for the 34 year old Brisebois to improve is slim, whereas the 25 year old Martin Skoula still can. Don't see a supposed edge to anyone here either.. Equal..

Robidas vs Boughner.. I don't think people know much about Robidas. He was a fan favorite upon his departure and I bet he will quickly pick up right where he left. He's a very decent puckmover and a player with a huge heart in general. He's tiny, but will (try to) hit anyone or even fight players who are much bigger than him. Solid defensively. Boughner is an entirely different player, but comparable in terms of value on the ice. Equal..

Erskine vs Sauer.. A complete wash..

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Old
08-15-2005, 01:11 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Then again, on the Penguins board, Evilo said Ric Jackman would be a top 2 defenseman on any team in the league, and that Jackman in a Penguins jersey was almost flawless.

You know that's not true.
Don't be ridiculous.
I said Jackman played as well as any defenseman in the league in his 25 games as a Penguin.
He scored a point a game but made a few defensive mistakes.
That's exactly what I said.
I also said I don't trust him to play in our top 4 this year unless he proves he can do it on the long run.

So if you want to ridicule others, don't bring up untrue arguments.

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