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Are the Avs really better than us?

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Old
08-15-2005, 01:22 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
I said Jackman played as well as any defenseman in the league in his 25 games as a Penguin.
He scored a point a game but made a few defensive mistakes.
That's exactly what I said.
Actually, no, it's not.

You said Ric Jackman would be a top 2 defenseman on any team in the league. It's there clear as day... you can't deny that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
So if you want to ridicule others, don't bring up untrue arguments.
This is not ridiculing. Ridiculing would be if I started to lambast your opinions and called you an idiot, etc., which I'm clearly not doing. Let's try and understand the words we're using before labelling people, shall we?

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08-15-2005, 01:23 PM
  #52
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IMO Colorado's d corp is better, but Dallas' overall team defense is a little better. This is basically an "any given night" match up like it's been for 5+ years.

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08-15-2005, 01:25 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Actually, no, it's not.

You said Ric Jackman would be a top 2 defenseman on any team in the league. It's there clear as day... you can't deny that.



This is not ridiculing. Ridiculing would be if I started to lambast your opinions and called you an idiot, etc., which I'm clearly not doing. Let's try and understand the words we're using before labelling people, shall we?
Understand the words?
Quote:
The way Jackman played in his 25 Penguins games, he would have been top 2 on every defense in the league.
That was my EXACT quote.
Who's not understanding the words here?

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08-15-2005, 01:27 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
Understand the words?

That was my EXACT quote.
Who's not understanding the words here?
Man you are the king of misinformation or what?
http://www.hfboards.com/showpost.php...1&postcount=41

Either that post there is you on drugs, a joke, or an example of somebody who doesn't know anything about the sport of hockey.

Take your pick.

Anyhow, this topic doesn't concern us, Ric Jackman, nor our personal squabbles so let's take it to PM if we have an issue.

Thanks!

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08-15-2005, 01:28 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
Oh oh, why did you go comparing them..

I'll start..

Zubov vs Blake.. Blake is more physical, but that's the only edge he has. Both are equally sound defensively though Blake can handle stronger forwards more easier than Zubov can due to his physical edge. Zubov is more offensively talented and should be in for quite a year with these new rules. Small edge to Blake for his physical prowess.
I don't see how Zubov is more offensively talented than Blake.

Blake = 13 goals last season VS 7 for Zubov (Even Liles scored more goals than Zubov)

Previous years goals
Blake Vs Zubov
17 Vs 11
16 Vs 12
19 Vs 10

To say Zubov is more offensively talented than Blake looks like a complete joke to me.

Rob Blake is the total package.

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08-15-2005, 01:30 PM
  #56
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Skoula has problem beyond being a turnstile. He turns over the puck, fumbles the puck at the blueline, doesn't use his size or skills. Breezeby has an edge there.

I'd take Skrastins over Klemm in a heartbeat.

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Old
08-15-2005, 01:34 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Howdy
I don't see how Zubov is more offensively talented than Blake.

Blake = 13 goals last season VS 7 for Zubov (Even Liles scored more goals than Zubov)

Previous years goals
Blake Vs Zubov
17 Vs 11
16 Vs 12
19 Vs 10

To say Zubov is more offensively talented than Blake looks like a complete joke to me.

Rob Blake is the total package.
Zubov is arguably the most offensively gifted defenseman in the league. You can't messure that by stats, let alone ignore the system Zubov plays in, which has been the most defensive minded system of the West for nearly a decade. Upon his arrival, he was recording points at a ppg clip..

Zubov is more offensively gifted than Rob Blake, I'll say it again..

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08-15-2005, 01:36 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasbro
Skoula has problem beyond being a turnstile. He turns over the puck, fumbles the puck at the blueline, doesn't use his size or skills. Breezeby has an edge there.

I'd take Skrastins over Klemm in a heartbeat.
I'd take Blake over Zubov, Skrastins over Klemm, Briesbois over Skoula and Liles over Daley.

Those are pretty easy comparisons and rather obvious advantages for Colorado, IMO.

Vaananen - Boucher, Boughner - Robidas and Sauer - Erksine are the only debatable ones.

I guess I'm a homer because I just see Colorado's defense being considerably better than Dallas'. Oh well, time will tell.

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08-15-2005, 01:37 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
Zubov is arguably the most offensively gifted defenseman in the league. You can't messure that by stats, let alone ignore the system Zubov plays in, which has been the most defensive minded system of the West for nearly a decade. Upon his arrival, he was recording points at a ppg clip..

Zubov is more offensively gifted than Rob Blake, I'll say it again..
The stats don't lie. Rob Blake owns him on paper. And how many Norris trophies did Zubov win? Last count was none.

Rob Blake, please and thank you, with ease.

You're not gonna see any forwards cowering in fear from Zubov either. Blake is a great hitter to go along with his scoring prowess. He's an intimidating blueliner. Once again ...he's the total package.

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08-15-2005, 01:38 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Howdy
I don't see how Zubov is more offensively talented than Blake.

Blake = 13 goals last season VS 7 for Zubov (Even Liles scored more goals than Zubov)

Previous years goals
Blake Vs Zubov
17 Vs 11
16 Vs 12
19 Vs 10

To say Zubov is more offensively talented than Blake looks like a complete joke to me.

Rob Blake is the total package.

offensive talent doesnt just mean goals.

previous 3 years assists:
Zubov v Blake
35 v 33
44 v 37
32 v 40

I'd say they are pretty even offensively if ya ask me. But Zubov will do better than Blake under the new rules.

The Defense, as has been said, is pretty much a toss-up night in and night out from looking at stats.

The offense is where dallas has the edge.

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Old
08-15-2005, 01:41 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
I'd take Blake over Zubov, Skrastins over Klemm, Briesbois over Skoula and Liles over Daley.

Those are pretty easy comparisons and rather obvious advantages for Colorado, IMO.

Vaananen - Boucher, Boughner - Robidas and Sauer - Erksine are the only debatable ones.

I guess I'm a homer because I just see Colorado's defense being considerably better than Dallas'. Oh well, time will tell.
Guess so..

But consider this, the Stars had a simular blueline last year whereas the Avs still had Foote and so were considereably better, right?

In the end, the Stars had given up 23 fewer goals than the Avalanche. Only the Devils defense did better..

But we'll see.. I think that the Stars defense might be better suited for the new rules, but Zubov contributes a lot to that. But in general, I don't see either defense with a clear edge..

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08-15-2005, 01:46 PM
  #62
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Agree to disagree.

I feel Dallas does not pose a threat whatsoever, and am fairly confident any meeting in the playoffs would result in another quick 5 game exit for the Stars.

Again, time will tell.

The season should be interesting.

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Old
08-15-2005, 01:47 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Howdy
The stats don't lie. Rob Blake owns him on paper. And how many Norris trophies did Zubov win? Last count was none.

Rob Blake, please and thank you, with ease.

You're not gonna see any forwards cowering in fear from Zubov either. Blake is a great hitter to go along with his scoring prowess. He's an intimidating blueliner. Once again ...he's the total package.
Numbers don't lie indeed..

Regular season:

Sergei Zubov - 856 games .. 123 goals .. 484 assists for 607 points (ppg of 0.71)

Rob Blake - 903 games .. 186 goals .. 400 assists for 586 points (ppg of 0.65)


If that isn't enough..

Playoffs:

Sergei Zubov - 142 games .. 22 goals .. 79 assists for 101 points (ppg of 0.72)

Rob Blake - 116 games .. 21 goals .. 42 assists for 63 points (ppg of 0.53)

If anything, Zubov owns Blake in the stats, and if like you said stats don't lie, than Zubov eveluates his game come playoff time whereas Blake takes a decent step backwards...

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08-15-2005, 01:47 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
The season should be interesting.
I agree completely.

But just out of curiousity..
How does a team with Morrow, Arnott, Modano, Guerin, Lehtinen, Zubov, Boucher, and Turco not pose any threat?

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08-15-2005, 01:48 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
Numbers don't lie indeed..

Regular season:

Sergei Zubov - 856 games .. 123 goals .. 484 assists for 607 points (ppg of 0.71)

Rob Blake - 903 games .. 186 goals .. 400 assists for 586 points (ppg of 0.65)


If that isn't enough..

Playoffs:

Sergei Zubov - 142 games .. 22 goals .. 79 assists for 101 points (ppg of 0.72)

Rob Blake - 116 games .. 21 goals .. 42 assists for 63 points (ppg of 0.53)

If anything, Zubov owns Blake in the stats, and if like you said stats don't lie, than Zubov eveluates his game come playoff time whereas Blake takes a decent step backwards...

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Old
08-15-2005, 01:48 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Agree to disagree.

I feel Dallas does not pose a threat whatsoever, and am fairly confident any meeting in the playoffs would result in another quick 5 game exit for the Stars.

Again, time will tell.

The season should be interesting.
That's borderline cocky..

Can't believe you just said that when you have have Pierre Turgeon centering your 2nd line..

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08-15-2005, 01:50 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starshockeyfan56
I agree completely.

But just out of curiousity..
How does a team with Morrow, Arnott, Modano, Guerin, Lehtinen, Zubov, Boucher, and Turco not pose any threat?
I feel there's no chemistry with the Stars, there's minimal work ethic, there's underachieving stars and despite being a fabulous goaltender, I have no concerns about the Avs lighting up Marty Turco come playoff time.

Surely you can understand how such an easy elimination of Dallas in the last playoffs would make me feel this confident, no?

I am much more worried about Detroit, Vancouver, San Jose, Calgary and Edmonton.

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08-15-2005, 01:53 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
I feel there's no chemistry with the Stars, there's minimal work ethic, there's underachieving stars and despite being a fabulous goaltender, I have no concerns about the Avs lighting up Marty Turco come playoff time.

Surely you can understand how such an easy elimination of Dallas in the last playoffs would make me feel this confident, no?

I am much more worried about Detroit, Vancouver, San Jose, Calgary and Edmonton.
Any fan of the Stars knows why that season went kaputt so fast. They went on such a tear at the end of the season, that people on this forum we're wondering which team could actually beat them.

Stars fans saw the team come together to be one of the best of the league after a meeting in Phoenix last season. Until a road trip to canada, where they lost zubov, klemm, barnes, a few more guys, and Turco got suspended. After that we were right back where we started, and I knew the playoffs were going to be quick.

You might recall a game during that stretch where the stars beat the avs 5-2. thats when they were arguably the best team going in the league. that late road trip really killed the team

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08-15-2005, 01:58 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
I feel Dallas does not pose a threat whatsoever, and am fairly confident any meeting in the playoffs would result in another quick 5 game exit for the Stars.

Surely you can understand how such an easy elimination of Dallas in the last playoffs would make me feel this confident, no?
Do you not recognize that the Avs are a totally different team from 04? They lost their best offensive and defensive players, yet haven't gotten any worse at all?

If 36 year old Sakic goes down for any period of time with an injury, reality will set in quickly.

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08-15-2005, 02:03 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Surely you can understand how such an easy elimination of Dallas in the last playoffs would make me feel this confident, no?

I am much more worried about Detroit, Vancouver, San Jose, Calgary and Edmonton.
I'm glad you underrestimate the Stars and completely forget the fact that it took career low seasons from our top forwards and entire defense to beat us in the playoffs..

The Stars of last year were downright awful. If it wasn't for Turco we would never have sniffed the playoffs.

Just keep in mind that the next time we meet eachother in the playoffs, Mike Modano's head is actually in the game this time, that Lehtinen is healthy and in shape, that Zubov won't be playing as below par and that Marty Turco isn't coming from a holdout, an injury and a suspension.. Not to mention no Turgeon to squeek in either..

The Stars are improved. They already were when Modano re-signed. The Avs on the other end are off far worse then they were last season.

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08-15-2005, 02:04 PM
  #71
12# Peter Bondra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Famous Flames
Do you not recognize that the Avs are a totally different team from 04? They lost their best offensive and defensive players, yet haven't gotten any worse at all?

If 36 year old Sakic goes down for any period of time with an injury, reality will set in quickly.
The 2nd part could be said for almost any team though. If DAL loses Turco, TOR Sundin, Calgary Iginla..

And we only lost our best offensive and defensive PLAYER, not players.

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Old
08-15-2005, 02:06 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by 12# Peter Bondra
And we only lost our best offensive and defensive PLAYER, not players.
Prior to his department, Adam Foote was widely considered as the Avs best defenseman. Naturally fans will now claim it always was Blake..

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08-15-2005, 02:07 PM
  #73
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Players = Foote and Forsberg

And I'd be much more concerned about a 1st line centered by Turgeon than Hedberg playing some games. The puss factor on that line would be through the roof.

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08-15-2005, 02:11 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
Numbers don't lie indeed..

Regular season:

Sergei Zubov - 856 games .. 123 goals .. 484 assists for 607 points (ppg of 0.71)

Rob Blake - 903 games .. 186 goals .. 400 assists for 586 points (ppg of 0.65)


If that isn't enough..

Playoffs:

Sergei Zubov - 142 games .. 22 goals .. 79 assists for 101 points (ppg of 0.72)

Rob Blake - 116 games .. 21 goals .. 42 assists for 63 points (ppg of 0.53)

If anything, Zubov owns Blake in the stats, and if like you said stats don't lie, than Zubov eveluates his game come playoff time whereas Blake takes a decent step backwards...

Zubov played 26 more playoff games than Blake ...and Blake has one less goal. Zubov has more assists, but Blake is better at putting the puck in the net ...not to mention his physical play makes up for the few less assists he has. To say Zubov is more offensively gifted still makes no sense to me ...and Blake's all around game more than makes up for the fewer assists.

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08-15-2005, 02:11 PM
  #75
12# Peter Bondra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
Prior to his department, Adam Foote was widely considered as the Avs best defenseman. Naturally fans will now claim it always was Blake..
I meant that we didnt lose multiple defensmen but only one. I guess we misunderstood ourselves. Same thing with Forsberg.

I meant we lost our best offensive player, meaning 1 player cause I understood it as multiple best OFF players.

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