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Are the Avs really better than us?

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Old
08-15-2005, 01:14 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Famous Flames
If 36 year old Sakic goes down for any period of time with an injury, reality will set in quickly.
Same can be said for any team in the league that loses their best player to injury.

What if Modano goes down for you guys?

Of course that probably wont matter as much since he only put up 14 goals last season.

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08-15-2005, 01:18 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Howdy
Same can be said for any team in the league that loses their best player to injury.

What if Modano goes down for you guys?

Of course that probably wont matter as much since he only put up 14 goals last season.
Arnott was arguably the #1 center last season. He's a servicable replacement regardless.

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08-15-2005, 01:19 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Howdy
Same can be said for any team in the league that loses their best player to injury.

What if Modano goes down for you guys?

Of course that probably wont matter as much since he only put up 14 goals last season.
i'd wait for the season to start before you throw out comments like that.

did you see him at the world cup?

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08-15-2005, 01:19 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Howdy
Zubov played 26 more playoff games than Blake ...and Blake has one less goal.
That's why I added the ppg factor, which is pretty much the only thing you should pay attention to when discussing stats.

Sergei Zubov is a far better producer than Rob Blake in the playoffs.

Heck, consider this, Zubov had 220 points in about 230 games before he played under Hitchcock.

Zubov is more offensively gifted than 99.99% of the players in the National Hockey League.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Howdy
To say Zubov is more offensively gifted still makes no sense to me

I thought you said stats don't lie? Now I prove you that Zubov has been a better producer than Rob Blake, numbers no longer tell the whole story? Make up your mind..

But I like how Zubov has been so underrated throughout his entire career. I didn't like it however when McGuire said Zubov would be a consistent threat for the Norris if he didn't play in such a defensive minded system, holding him back. Can't let Zubov be rated properly..

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08-15-2005, 01:19 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starshockeyfan56
offensive talent doesnt just mean goals.

previous 3 years assists:
Zubov v Blake
35 v 33
44 v 37
32 v 40

I'd say they are pretty even offensively if ya ask me. But Zubov will do better than Blake under the new rules.

The Defense, as has been said, is pretty much a toss-up night in and night out from looking at stats.

The offense is where dallas has the edge.
Zubov will do better than Blake under the new rules?? What crystal ball have you been staring into? Did Miss Cleo tell you that?


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08-15-2005, 01:21 PM
  #81
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my "blatantly obvious" ball

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08-15-2005, 01:23 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
That's why I added the ppg factor, which is pretty much the only thing you should pay attention to when discussing stats.

Sergei Zubov is a far better producer than Rob Blake in the playoffs.

Heck, consider this, Zubov had 220 points in about 230 games before he played under Hitchcock.

Zubov is more offensively gifted than 99.99% of the players in the National Hockey League.





I thought you said stats don't lie? Now I prove you that Zubov has been a better producer than Rob Blake, numbers no longer tell the whole story? Make up your mind..

But I like how Zubov has been so underrated throughout his entire career. I didn't like it however when McGuire said Zubov would be a consistent threat for the Norris if he didn't play in such a defensive minded system, holding him back. Can't let Zubov be rated properly..
An example = Zubov playing 26 more playoff games than Blake ...yet Blake has 1 less goal. Gimme a break.

Zubov is not more offensively gifted.

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08-15-2005, 01:23 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starshockeyfan56
my "realistic" ball
well, it's not working. take it back and get a refund.

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Old
08-15-2005, 01:24 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Howdy
Zubov will do better than Blake under the new rules?? What crystal ball have you been staring into? Did Miss Cleo tell you that?

Passing studs like Zubov will benefit from these new rules moreso than anyone. I agree that he made it sound like a fact (which i'm sure he didn't mean to) but what he meant wasn't anything to laugh about..

This will be the first time for Zubov he can finally show a bit more of his arsenal, odds are strong he will do better than his average of 50 points..

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08-15-2005, 01:27 PM
  #85
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i should've edited that post, i did not mean to make it fact.

Let me restate by saying "Under the new rules, I feel that Zubov will do better than Blake"

To say that the feeling is unjustified is rather foolish though.

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08-15-2005, 01:28 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Howdy
An example = Zubov playing 26 more playoff games than Blake ...yet Blake has 1 less goal. Gimme a break.

Zubov is not more offensively gifted.
You make me laugh..

Rob Blake is scoring at a 0.51 rate during his playoff career. That means a point every 2 games.

Sergei Zubov is scoring at a 0.72 rate during his playoff career. That means 2 points every 3 games.

Seems like simple math to me..

Anyway, it was you who wanted to go deeper into the stats and told me they wouldn't lie. There's nothing I have left to prove regarding stats, as Zubov proves to have the edge.

Also, any fan of hockey knows Zubov is more offensively talented than Rob Blake. And that isn't a knock on Blake at all..

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08-15-2005, 01:32 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
You make me laugh..

Rob Blake is scoring at a 0.51 rate during his playoff career. That means a point every 2 games.

Sergei Zubov is scoring at a 0.72 rate during his playoff career. That means 2 points every 3 games.

Seems like simple math to me..

Anyway, it was you who wanted to go deeper into the stats and told me they wouldn't lie. There's nothing I have left to prove regarding stats, as Zubov proves to have the edge.

Also, any fan of hockey knows Zubov is more offensively talented than Rob Blake. And that isn't a knock on Blake at all..
Well it's obvious that Zubov has more assists ...but Blake is still the better goal scorer ...which is what I thought you meant in the first place when you talked about offensive ability.

Zubov has more assits ...Blake has more goals.

I'll take more goals + intimidating physical play over the soft Zubov with his more assists. (And it's not like Blake doesn't have his fair share of assists either)

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08-15-2005, 01:38 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Howdy
Well it's obvious that Zubov has more assists ...but Blake is still the better goal scorer ...which is what I thought you meant in the first place when you talked about offensive ability.

Zubov has more assits ...Blake has more goals.

I'll take more goals + intimidating physical play over the soft Zubov with his more assists.
Ah I see the misconfusion..

Offensively gifted has little to do with goals and goals only. Blake has more goals since he shoots way more..

In 856 games, Sergei Zubov has taken a total of 1870 shots.

Rob Blake on the other hand, has taken 2900 shots in 903 games.

Zubov has a small edge in shooting percentage's, so it isnt as if Blake's the better shooter, it's just due to the difference in styles, as Zubov is much more of a playmaker, hence the high assist totals. To be honest, I think this is a little knock on Zubov, as he has this awesome shot, but doesn't uses it nearly enough.

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08-15-2005, 01:44 PM
  #89
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I am not going to get into your argument about Blake, but yes, Zubov needs to shoot more. He tries to make the pass for the perfect scoring opportunity too much instead of just ripping it when he has an open shot.

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08-15-2005, 02:04 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
Just keep in mind that the next time we meet eachother in the playoffs, Mike Modano's head is actually in the game this time, that Lehtinen is healthy and in shape, that Zubov won't be playing as below par and that Marty Turco isn't coming from a holdout, an injury and a suspension.. Not to mention no Turgeon to squeek in either..
How do you know Mike Modano's head will be in the game? He was arguably the most overpaid, worthless "star" in the NHL in 2003/04.

Jere Lehtinen will simply be "in shape?" Lehts is a fantastic player, but what indication is there, again, that he'll be another one of the Stars players to suddenly have a huge comeback season?

Who's to say Sergei Zubov won't be playing as below par? Again, he was an awful Star throughout that playoff series(since we're talking playoffs like you said), and the Avalanche have always done well against Zubov in particular. Derian Hatcher gave them many more problems as a whole when they played them in the past.

We'll see if Marty Turco can stop the Avalanche. He's failed so far, and I have my doubts when it comes to his mental confidence issues. He gets rattled, and early goals tend to lead to many more mistakes throughout the course of a playoff series with him.

If you want to base your entire success off of IFs, then fine.

If Joe Sakic plays like he did in his Art Ross, Hart Trophy, etc. winning season in 2000/01, if Rob Blake plays like his Norris trophy season, if Milan Hejduk reaches 50 goals again like he was the last player to do so, if JM Liles shows this much progress after one year.

If, if, if... it's fun, isn't it?

Oh, and my goodness, poor you for having to "squeeze in" Pierre Turgeon. Weren't you one of Turgeon's biggest fans all of last season? Yes, you were. You were telling people he wasn't washed up, that he was a legitimate playmaker, and would always be coming out of his funk ready to play well. Hell, you praised his signing for us and said he could return to a good role with us.

My oh my, when the shoe's on the other foot...

P.S.: In regards to this Zubov-Blake debate, I agree that Sergei Zubov has more offensive talent all-around than Blake. Definitely. However, Blake is the far more complete defenseman and 30 NHL GMs would take Blake over Zubov every day of the week.

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Old
08-15-2005, 02:26 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
Prior to his department, Adam Foote was widely considered as the Avs best defenseman. Naturally fans will now claim it always was Blake..
Most Av fans did seem to prefer Foote over Blake ...but I'm one of the few who preferred Blake. Foote cost less ...and you could say was more bang for the buck ...but not thinking of dollars, Blake was the better all around dman, imo.

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08-15-2005, 02:32 PM
  #92
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First of all, I think both teams are going to be remarkably mediocre. Unfortunately, I think Colorado will be better and we'll be doormats.

But I have to stand up for Marty Turco here. The guy has 21 career shutouts yet only 2 years as a first string netminder. He's got a career 1.91 GAA and .939% at the Pepsi Center, which is hardly "failure" (a 1-2-3 record there may be evidence that it's the Stars as a team that has "failed" against the Avs). Don't get me wrong, I think Aebischer has been one of the most overlooked and underrated goalies in the league. If I were running that team, I would pencil him in as my number one for years to come. But he can be overwhelmed now and then. He can be inconsistent. He can be shaky. Turco, on the other hand, I sincerely believe has the upside to be a top 3 in the league. His numbers have been on the cusp of the Vezina winners in his short career, and I think he has at least one Vezina Trophy in him. I recognize my viewpoint is in a tiny minority leaguewide, but I can't for the life of me understand why it is. At the very least, I think people should concede that he has the potential to be the greatest netminder in franchise history.

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08-15-2005, 02:33 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starshockeyfan56
i'd wait for the season to start before you throw out comments like that.

did you see him at the world cup?
I should wait before throwing comments out like that?? Here you are proclaiming that Zubov is going to have a Bobby Orr type year under the new CBA and you're complaining to me?

This was your quote if you need to be reminded.
"But Zubov will do better than Blake under the new rules."

Maybe you should take your own advice?

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08-15-2005, 02:33 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starshockeyfan56
i should've edited that post, i did not mean to make it fact.

Let me restate by saying "Under the new rules, I feel that Zubov will do better than Blake"

To say that the feeling is unjustified is rather foolish though.
maybe you should read.
also, how is saying that i feel zubov will do better than blake orr-esque?

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08-15-2005, 02:39 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starshockeyfan56
maybe you should read.
also, how is saying that i feel zubov will do better than blake orr-esque?
my words are an exaggeration to make a point.

i'm saying you should take your own advice.

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08-15-2005, 02:41 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Howdy
my words are an exaggeration to make a point.

i'm saying you should take your own advice.
no.
I feel that there is greater ignorance in thinking modano will play the way he did in the 03-04 season than thinking zubov will thrive under the new rules.

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08-15-2005, 02:49 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starshockeyfan56
no.
I feel that there is greater ignorance in thinking modano will play the way he did in the 03-04 season than thinking zubov will thrive under the new rules.
Well, to start ...when I stated that about Modano, I said "probably". I didn't state it as a fact like you did in regards to Zubov.

Modano is getting older, had a garbage season last year, and it could very well stay that way since he is on the downside of his career. Until he proves otherwise.

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08-15-2005, 03:28 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Howdy
Well, to start ...when I stated that about Modano, I said "probably". I didn't state it as a fact like you did in regards to Zubov.
again, you should read. I said that I should've reworded it, and I did. I feel that Zubov will do better than Blake with the new rules.

And you are right, Modano needs to prove he isn't the same player from 2003-2004 season. I feel he will prove it quickly

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08-15-2005, 03:32 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
How do you know Mike Modano's head will be in the game? He was arguably the most overpaid, worthless "star" in the NHL in 2003/04.
Let's phrase it differently:

Mike Modano won't be losing millions, and with that, his best friend, 2 weeks before the season kicks off. Mike Modano won't have as much pressure from the media as he had last season.

There's no if here.. These are things *extremely* unlikely to happen again. So unlikely that I'd nearly call them facts..

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Jere Lehtinen will simply be "in shape?" Lehts is a fantastic player, but what indication is there, again, that he'll be another one of the Stars players to suddenly have a huge comeback season?
Jere Lehtinen went through about 3 freak-injuries last year and had trouble getting his buddy Mike going. If anyone would benefit from the lockout, it would be Jere, who was finally able to let his body rest and is reportedly in perfect shape.

Not a huge if here to say Jere will have a better season either..

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Who's to say Sergei Zubov won't be playing as below par? Again, he was an awful Star throughout that playoff series(since we're talking playoffs like you said), and the Avalanche have always done well against Zubov in particular. Derian Hatcher gave them many more problems as a whole when they played them in the past.
Zubov started off badly just like the entire team, but regained himself tremendously and was his oldself again for the entire 2nd half of the year. He got dragged into his team's poor start.. And unless Modano goes through a simular situation, Turco will again hold out, the odds are strong we will enjoy a better start than last season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
We'll see if Marty Turco can stop the Avalanche. He's failed so far, and I have my doubts when it comes to his mental confidence issues. He gets rattled, and early goals tend to lead to many more mistakes throughout the course of a playoff series with him.
He's failed so far? One playoff series and he's failed? He never failed to be accurate, it was you who even stated that the Avs skated circle's around the Stars defense and that Turco was let completely hang out to dry. The Stars sucked that series, to blame it all on Turco is rather ignorant. He was phenomenal during our short run in 2003 and I have all the confidence in the world in his playoff capabilities.

All those players had off-seasons. They were caused due to explainable, but unfortunate reasons. Neither of those players were on a sudden decline in skills or where age suddenly took over.

It's reasonable to assume the Stars will be improved as the current conditions are already better than they were last year. Mike hasn't lost his best friend or any millions and likely won't.. Marty Turco is locked up and so won't be holding out and miss all of training camp, etc..

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Oh, and my goodness, poor you for having to "squeeze in" Pierre Turgeon. Weren't you one of Turgeon's biggest fans all of last season? Yes, you were. You were telling people he wasn't washed up, that he was a legitimate playmaker, and would always be coming out of his funk ready to play well. Hell, you praised his signing for us and said he could return to a good role with us.

My oh my, when the shoe's on the other foot...
Poor me indeed, as Turgeon was downright horrible with the Stars. He never fit in, so yes, we had to "squeeze" him in as no one really wanted him on the team in the first place, not the fans and not the staff. But how am I contracting myself here? I am still saying Turgeon can still be a valueble playmaker capable of plenty of points. He was useless on the Stars.. I'm still praising the Avs somewhat to have him for only 1.5 million, but I wouldn't ever take him back under the current circumstances.

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Old
08-15-2005, 03:39 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
Let's phrase it differently:

Mike Modano won't be losing millions, and with that, his best friend, 2 weeks before the season kicks off. Mike Modano won't have as much pressure from the media as he had last season.

There's no if here.. These are things *extremely* unlikely to happen again. So unlikely that I'd nearly call them facts..
However, with the exception of Brian McCabe, he's the poster boy for players shooting their mouth off during the lockout. He'll be a fan target in any arena.

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