HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

Bertuzzi's shameful reinstatement

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-09-2005, 08:53 AM
  #1
Augustus
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Augustus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Roma in my soul.
Country: Italy
Posts: 12,946
vCash: 500
Bertuzzi's shameful reinstatement

Not sure this Leaf board is proper place for this thread but I don't want to troll to Canuck board and I am curious how many people here think Bertuzzi should have been so quickly reinstated. As Morris Dalla Costa in the London Free Press wrote:

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/London...64967-sun.html

"The so-called new National Hockey League is a lot like the old National Hockey League when it comes to guts. It doesn't have any.

The NHL has reinstated Vancouver Canuck Todd Bertuzzi....

Bertuzzi's suspension lasted 13 regular season games and seven playoff games. He lost about $500,000 US in salary.

In an effort to befuddle right-thinking hockey fans who recognize the reinstatement as a joke, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman released the following statement:

"A total suspension of approximately 17 calendar months from the date of the incident is the appropriate sanction to impose in this case given the nature and severity of the act in question and the overall totality of circumstances...."

Yo, Gary, stop trying to fool the troops here. We're not talking 17 months, we're talking 20 games. Your league just gave a guy who broke another guy's neck, gave him a career-threatening concussion and damaged the precious reputation of your league throughout the world, a 20-game suspension....

Bertuzzi was suspended indefinitely. Can you imagine what would have happened if Bettman, after investigating the attack, had told the watching world, fans and non-fans alike, that he was suspending Bertuzzi for a mere 20 games?

Yet that's the price Bettman has placed on the career of the hockey players who play in his league. It's the value he places on what Moore does for a living, of his chosen profession. In fact it's what Bettman thinks the value should be on Moore's quality of life. "


I am personally disgusted with Bettman and the NHL and even more so with the probability of Bertuzzi joining the Canadian Olympic team. If he is on it, I for one shall have complete disinterest in the results of that team.

It is still another black day for hockey.

__________________
Noah Cross: 'Course I'm respectable. I'm old. Politicians, ugly buildings, and ****** all get respectable if they last long enough.
Timothy Fenwick Jr: Do you ever get the feeling that there's something going on that we don't know about?
Boogie: If you don't have good dreams, Bagel, you got nightmares.
Augustus is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 08:57 AM
  #2
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 54,534
vCash: 500
And Cam Cole says the NHL owes Bertuzzi an apology.

This is a pathetic piece of poop: http://www.canada.com/calgary/calgar...3-31fbd83135d8


I think Bertuzzi should have been suspended for at least another 10 games.

Absolute crap that Bettman says he's been suspended for 17 months. Other players were out of work for 17 months as well, but they weren't out of work because they were convicted criminals.

ULF_55 is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 08:58 AM
  #3
timlap
Registered User
 
timlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 7,181
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Recidivist
. . .
I am personally disgusted with Bettman and the NHL and even more so with the probability of Bertuzzi joining the Canadian Olympic team. If he is on it, I for one shall have complete disinterest in the results of that team.

It is still another black day for hockey.
Can't say I agree with you here, Recidivist. Imo the Bertuzzi incident has been portrayed as worse than it was. Emotions have clouded the issue significantly.

It was a serious infraction and received a serious penalty. To continue the suspension for any significant period of time would be an overreaction spurred by media hype. Bettman, to his credit, has done a good job over the years of ignoring the media, and concentrating on studying the situation itself.

timlap is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:01 AM
  #4
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 54,534
vCash: 500
http://www.canada.com/calgary/calgar...7-b94533de5e4f

"But Moore's lawyer Tim Danson said the ruling means Bertuzzi can earn $5.2 million US this year while his client doesn't know if he'll ever play hockey again.

"Steve Moore is disappointed by the decision because he is unable to resume his career and my never resume his NHL career," Danson said in an interview.

"Steve has an uncertain future. He's got health challenges to deal with. While he maintains a very positive attitude . . . at this point he really is in the hands of doctors who will have to make the determination whether or not he will be able to play again."

Danson also denied reports in a Toronto newspaper that a doctor has given Moore medical clearance to play hockey again.

"That statement is significantly false," Danson said.

...

Danson said Bertuzzi should be suspended for 82 games, the same penalty Marty McSorley received for clubbing Donald Brashear on the head with his stick.

He also rejected the idea Bertuzzi suffered during the lockout.

"I think the lost year shouldn't count," Danson said.

"Steve Moore was unable to play in Europe as well. I don't think it's proportional to the injuries that were suffered by Steve Moore."
"

ULF_55 is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:02 AM
  #5
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 54,534
vCash: 500
Steve Moore should sign a 450k contract and get himself traded to every team the Canucks play through December.

Bertuzzi would then not be able to play until after December.

ULF_55 is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:02 AM
  #6
NYRfan68
Registered User
 
NYRfan68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,734
vCash: 500
I think he served his suspension. He's been out for 1 1/2 years. Its called forgive and forget.

NYRfan68 is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:03 AM
  #7
timlap
Registered User
 
timlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 7,181
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
And Cam Cole says the NHL owes Bertuzzi an apology.

This is a pathetic piece of poop: http://www.canada.com/calgary/calgar...3-31fbd83135d8


I think Bertuzzi should have been suspended for at least another 10 games.

Absolute crap that Bettman says he's been suspended for 17 months. Other players were out of work for 17 months as well, but they weren't out of work because they were convicted criminals.
See the part in bold above. That's an example of over-dramatising the issue.

You say it's "absolute crap" that Bettman says the suspension was 17 months, but the point Gary made was legitimate. Do you honestly believe that, had there been no suspension, Bertuzzi would not have played somewhere in the world? You might say that the 17 months was not significant enough, but it was certainly something.

As for ten more games, I have no objection to that. To me ten games is small potatoes compared to what he (and Vancouver fans) have already missed.

timlap is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:04 AM
  #8
ACC1224
Burke was right.
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 26,925
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rancid
I think he served his suspension. He's been out for 1 1/2 years. Its called forgive and forget.
yep, time to move on

ACC1224 is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:04 AM
  #9
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 54,534
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rancid
I think he served his suspension. He's been out for 1 1/2 years. Its called forgive and forget.
And Moore has been injured for over 1.5 years caused by the criminal act Bertuzzi committed.

ULF_55 is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:06 AM
  #10
Augustus
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Augustus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Roma in my soul.
Country: Italy
Posts: 12,946
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by timlap
Can't say I agree with you here, Recidivist. Imo the Bertuzzi incident has been portrayed as worse than it was. emotions have clouded the issue significantly.

It was a serious infraction and received a serious penalty. To continue the suspension for any significant period of time would be an overreaction spurred by media hype. Bettman, to his credit, has done a good job over the years of ignoring the media, and concentrating on studying the situation itself.

I don't understand how you can conclude that this serious infraction received a serious penalty if that penalty was 17 games, loss of 10% of his salary for one year, and loss of some endorsement income. That is a pathetically inadequate consequence. I don't think that you can blame emotions for any beliefs that he should have been kicked out of the game for at least a year -- that is what many reasonable people would think a minimum consequence for such a serious infraction.

The fault is shared between the NHL and the player's union which, once again, sacrifices the health of its members for the immediate gratification of its members -- as it does in the entire visor issue.

Augustus is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:07 AM
  #11
Augustus
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Augustus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Roma in my soul.
Country: Italy
Posts: 12,946
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rancid
I think he served his suspension. He's been out for 1 1/2 years. Its called forgive and forget.
And if I ever commit felonious assault on the streets of Toronto I can only pray that you, and people that think like you, will be on my jury.

Augustus is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:08 AM
  #12
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 54,534
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by timlap
See the part in bold above. That's an example of over-dramatising the issue.

You say it's "absolute crap" that Bettman says the suspension was 17 months, but the point Gary made was legitimate. Do you honestly believe that, had there been no suspension, Bertuzzi would not have played somewhere in the world? You might say that the 17 months was not significant enough, but it was certainly something.

As for ten more games, I have no objection to that. To me ten games is small potatoes compared to what he (and Vancouver fans) have already missed.
Actually, he is a convicted criminal ...

Vancouver fans suffered? How? What do the fans have to do with it?

Brashear was out what 3 games, and McSorley lost his career over it. A law for the rich(stars), and a law for the poor(journeymen).

ULF_55 is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:14 AM
  #13
joepeps
Registered User
 
joepeps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Italy
Posts: 11,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Recidivist
And if I ever commit felonious assault on the streets of Toronto I can only pray that you, and people that think like you, will be on my jury.
This wasn't in the streets it was in a hockey game... Emotions were involoved...

He didn't just miss 20 Reg games and the playoffs... and alot of money... he lost his dignety... World Cup... Playing in Europe not to meantion the money his family doesn't get.. who's going to support his family and pay the bills????

Give it up.. he hasn't got a pay check in 17 months.... Even though there was a lock out last year.. PLayers had a choice to play in Europe and make money.. he didn't have that choice therefore he was suspeneded

20 reg games in the NHL
NHL Playoffs
World Cup Tournies
82 Reg games in Europe
Europe Playoffs

enough is enough......


Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
Actually, he is a convicted criminal ...

Vancouver fans suffered? How? What do the fans have to do with it?

Brashear was out what 3 games, and McSorley lost his career over it. A law for the rich(stars), and a law for the poor(journeymen).
McSorley retired he could have came back.... he didn't want to.. he wasn't expelled from the NHL or lost his career over it...

joepeps is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:16 AM
  #14
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 54,534
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joepeps
Give it up.. he hasn't got a pay check in 17 months.... Even though there was a lock out last year.. PLayers had a choice to play in Europe and make money.. he didn't have that choice therefore he was susspeneded
Maybe the NHLPA can take up a collection.

ULF_55 is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:18 AM
  #15
Platapie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,741
vCash: 500
Quote:
And if I ever commit felonious assault on the streets of Toronto I can only pray that you, and people that think like you, will be on my jury.
Different world, different context. You also don't have the right to bowl me over randomly on the street because you saw me kicking a black rubbery disc towards an opening resembling a goal.

You guys interestingly enough point to situations where the punishment was more severe, but ignore many in the past that were much lighter. Red Horner, the Rocket, Bobby Clarke etc etc. If you're going to cite an example that backs up your case, cite those that also diminish it.

Platapie is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:20 AM
  #16
Bytown
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 929
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
Actually, he is a convicted criminal ...

Vancouver fans suffered? How? What do the fans have to do with it?

Brashear was out what 3 games, and McSorley lost his career over it. A law for the rich(stars), and a law for the poor(journeymen).
Bert played a big role with vancouver and with him gone it did take a toll on the team.

Bytown is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:21 AM
  #17
Volcanologist
Habitual User
 
Volcanologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kessel Apocalypse
Country: Germany
Posts: 19,991
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
And Cam Cole says the NHL owes Bertuzzi an apology.

This is a pathetic piece of poop: http://www.canada.com/calgary/calgar...3-31fbd83135d8
Disgraceful.

This bit was the worst:

Quote:
To say the NHL's failure to act on blows to the head led directly to Todd Bertuzzi's attack on Steve Moore is to state the obvious.
Uhhh...can you say "straw man"? How about "red herring"?

Unbelievable.

Volcanologist is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:21 AM
  #18
timlap
Registered User
 
timlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 7,181
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
Actually, he is a convicted criminal ...
A relatively minor offence. You might be surprised how many people you know have been convicted of such things at one time or another. The fact was accurate, the language was geared to portray something worse than reality. Thus, drama. But I'll concede the point, if you wish. Either you see what I'm saying or you don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
Vancouver fans suffered? How? What do the fans have to do with it?
Fan are important. Aren't they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
Brashear was out what 3 games, and McSorley lost his career over it. A law for the rich(stars), and a law for the poor(journeymen).
Actually, one law for hitting a person with a stick, another law for hitting a person with your fist.

The issue seems to be that people are basing their judgement on what happened to Moore. I think that one should consider that to a degree, but there is a limit to how much it can be considered. Although it is a terrible thing for Steve Moore, there was a degree of accident in his injury, and Bertuzzi can not be held entirely repsonsible for that, even though he initiated the accident. There is also a question whether Moore was in fact injured by subsequent players jumping on the pile.

timlap is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:23 AM
  #19
Raging Bull
Registered User
 
Raging Bull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hamilton, ONT
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rancid
I think he served his suspension. He's been out for 1 1/2 years. Its called forgive and forget.
I agree. People tend to forget he wasn't able to play any hockey what so ever for since the incident. His punishment should have been, and was, based on the severity of his actions, not Steve Moores injurys.

Raging Bull is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:24 AM
  #20
Bytown
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 929
vCash: 500
There were some reports it was the pile up that did moore in.

Bytown is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:28 AM
  #21
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 54,534
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydog2005
There were some reports it was the pile up that did moore in.
I shoot out the tires of a moving car on the expressway, the vehicle goes out of control and slams into oncoming traffic and maims a dozen people.

My crime, shooting the tire. Is that all I'd get punished for?

Extreme comparison, but had Dumtuzzi not been well Dum Moore never would have been injured.

ULF_55 is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:29 AM
  #22
Dar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Country: Northern Ireland
Posts: 4,813
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Dar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joepeps
This wasn't in the streets it was in a hockey game... Emotions were involoved...
A pre-meditated behind the head attack on the ice or on the street is of the same level of idiocy and cowardice. Emotions (other than that cowardice I mention) play no part in this kind of thuggage.

Quote:
He didn't just miss 20 Reg games and the playoffs... and alot of money... he lost his dignety... World Cup...
Good, but still not enough.
Quote:
Playing in Europe not to meantion the money his family doesn't get.. who's going to support his family and pay the bills????
Oh, I don't think with the millions he earned prior to this moronic action the family was quite ready to hit the food bank yet. Besides, did the NHLPA refuse his payments during the lockout?

Quote:
Give it up.. he hasn't got a pay check in 17 months.... Even though there was a lock out last year.. PLayers had a choice to play in Europe and make money.. he didn't have that choice therefore he was susspeneded
His suspension was an NHL suspension and frankly what the IIHF does beyond that is irrelevant. And good for them for what they decided.

Quote:
20 reg games in the NHL
NHL Playoffs
World Cup Tournies
82 Reg games in Europe
Europe Playoffs
Poor baby. Perhaps next time he would think twice and consider the consequences and the effects on his team rather than placing his own vandetta to the forefront.

Oh wait....did I ask Bertuzzi to think?..........HAHAHAHA.....I made a funny.

Quote:
enough is enough......
This was all about pressure on Bettman to cave. Bertuzzi should be sitting another 10 games at the least. Bettman had this one chance to start the league afresh and send a message that this level of neaderthal activity would not be tolerated anymore. Does this make Todd a scapegoat for the message? NO ! It makes an example out of an idiot.

Dar is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:29 AM
  #23
timlap
Registered User
 
timlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 7,181
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Recidivist
I don't understand how you can conclude that this serious infraction received a serious penalty if that penalty was 17 games, loss of 10% of his salary for one year, and loss of some endorsement income.
Agreed, if that were the penalty. I think I take the 17 month absence from hockey, the missed World Cup, and the virtual beating he has taken in the media and in public forums like this, more seriously than you do.

I do believe he is sincerely repentant.

I also think the crime was not as bad as has been suggested. See my point above about how Steve Moore's injuries should and should not be considered.

Considering that I beleive these things, I think you can at least see why I believe that the Bertuzzi re-instatement is acceptable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Recidivist
. . .I don't think that you can blame emotions for any beliefs that he should have been kicked out of the game for at least a year -- that is what many reasonable people would think a minimum consequence for such a serious infraction. . .
I agree that reasonable people could reach such a conclusion. I think there is room for debate amongst reasonable people.

timlap is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:29 AM
  #24
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
Disgraceful.

This bit was the worst:



Uhhh...can you say "straw man"? How about "red herring"?

Unbelievable.
He has a point, IMO, not that anything in the world could stop Bertuzzi from doing something incredibly stupid. None of the rule changes have addressed blows to the head which is shameful in this day and age.

mooseOAK* is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:30 AM
  #25
Bytown
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 929
vCash: 500
I would not say that moore has beena amrked man for some time by a few teams.Sooner or latter his actions were going to catch up with him.

Bytown is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:23 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.