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Old
08-09-2005, 09:33 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
He has a point, IMO, not that anything in the world could stop Bertuzzi from doing something incredibly stupid. None of the rule changes have addressed blows to the head which is shameful in this day and age.
I agree, blows to the head should not be tolerated. If you go low and take out someone's knees there is punishment, but if you go high and head hunt there is not.

If you can address low shots, you can address the high shots.

Whatever happened in the dark ages of the sport do not support continuing those acts into the future.

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08-09-2005, 09:34 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Dar
A pre-meditated behind the head attack on the ice or on the street is of the same level of idiocy and cowardice. Emotions (other than that cowardice I mention) play no part in this kind of thuggage.


Good, but still not enough.

Oh, I don't think with the millions he earned prior to this moronic action the family was quite ready to hit the food bank yet. Besides, did the NHLPA refuse his payments during the lockout?


His suspension was an NHL suspension and frankly what the IIHF does beyond that is irrelevant. And good for them for what they decided.


Poor baby. Perhaps next time he would think twice and consider the consequences and the effects on his team rather than placing his own vandetta to the forefront.

Oh wait....did I ask Bertuzzi to think?..........HAHAHAHA.....I made a funny.


This was all about pressure on Bettman to cave. Bertuzzi should be sitting another 10 games at the least. Bettman had this one chance to start the league afresh and send a message that this level of neaderthal activity would not be tolerated anymore. Does this make Todd a scapegoat for the message? NO ! It makes an example out of an idiot.

His suspension wasn't just an NHL suspension... you remember Perehozin (sp) he played in Europe... NHL didn't allow Bert to play in Europe.. Europe wanted him.. NHL said no......

not to meantion: Remember the hit on draper I think with Calude Lemeuix and then everyone saying there gonna get him back and they jumped him and ****... what happend there... not much for suspensions.........

you don't suspened the player for the severity of the injury.. you suspend him for his actions.... if I swing and hit soeone in the head but he's fine.. I only get 1 game???

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08-09-2005, 09:37 AM
  #28
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Bertuzzi served his time. He lost the 500k in salaries, plus he lost endorsement deals according to TSN that brought the figure closer to 1 million dollars. He also couldn't play in Europe (300-500k?) the World Cup and the World Championships. All those idiots who jumped on Bertuzzi should have received equal blame for the broken neck. Last night when watching the footage I noticed Bertuzzi's shoulders crumble when the first guy jumps on. They went flat and that is what broken Moore's neck.

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08-09-2005, 10:04 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by timlap
Agreed, if that were the penalty. I think I take the 17 month absence from hockey, the missed World Cup, and the virtual beating he has taken in the media and in public forums like this, more seriously than you do.

I agree that reasonable people could reach such a conclusion. I think there is room for debate amongst reasonable people.
And I am saddened at your conclusions because you are indeed a reasonable person and I think that your tolerance of such actions as Bertuzzi is more troubling than that of some others who are less reasonable.

Your belief that he has essentially suffered enough reminds me of all those politicians caught out at corruption, or business executives caught out at misappropriation of funds or illegal accounting methods. They are often thought to have suffered enough because of their public exposure and stated repentence (I am less impressed by the level of his remorse) and further punishment would be seen as little use, even cruel and unusual. Like Condrad Black (and now Bertuzzi), these people go on quite well with their comfortable lives in their nice homes with their powerful friends while others who are less powerful spend years in a hole trying to avoid getting a knife in their back.

Todd's suffering has me unimpressed.

And I see far too much here and elsewhere (not from you) about blaming the victim.

My sentiments are with the Mikado:

My object all sublime
I shall achieve in time--
To let the punishment fit the crime--
The punishment fit the crime.

Bertuzzi's punishment has, IMHO, been relatively trivial in both the BC courts and the NHL offices. Almost meaningless given the severity of his crime.

But reasonable people can disagree.

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Old
08-09-2005, 10:25 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
Steve Moore should sign a 450k contract and get himself traded to every team the Canucks play through December.

Bertuzzi would then not be able to play until after December.
Bertuzzi has also been given a 1 year probation sentence by Bettman ..

The best way for a team to defend against Bertuzzi is hire an agitator to get under his skin in a game you play against him ..

A second suspension should he violate probation logically Bettman would have to give him would be longer then 17 months this time and there will be a lockout in-between his sentence next time ..

His reinstatement might have a purpose .. Should Moore win his civil case and Bertuzzi forced to pay damages then they can garnishee his wages and in order to pay damages he needs to be playing.


Last edited by Mess: 08-09-2005 at 10:31 AM.
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08-09-2005, 10:44 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Recidivist
And I am saddened at your conclusions because you are indeed a reasonable person and I think that your tolerance of such actions as Bertuzzi is more troubling than that of some others who are less reasonable.
Fair enough. But one clarification, I don't tolerate Bertuzzi's actions at all. I think a serious penalty was called for- and delivered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Recidivist
My object all sublime
I shall achieve in time--
To let the punishment fit the crime--
The punishment fit the crime.
. . .
My Mikado is sketchy(I get most of my info from the movie Topsy Turvy, which is great), but doesn't one of the charactrers end up having to marry the fat girl? Perhaps that should be the final part of Bertuzzi's punishment.

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Old
08-09-2005, 11:06 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recidivist
Not sure this Leaf board is proper place for this thread but I don't want to troll to Canuck board and I am curious how many people here think Bertuzzi should have been so quickly reinstated. As Morris Dalla Costa in the London Free Press wrote:

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/London...64967-sun.html

"The so-called new National Hockey League is a lot like the old National Hockey League when it comes to guts. It doesn't have any.

The NHL has reinstated Vancouver Canuck Todd Bertuzzi....

Bertuzzi's suspension lasted 13 regular season games and seven playoff games. He lost about $500,000 US in salary.

In an effort to befuddle right-thinking hockey fans who recognize the reinstatement as a joke, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman released the following statement:

"A total suspension of approximately 17 calendar months from the date of the incident is the appropriate sanction to impose in this case given the nature and severity of the act in question and the overall totality of circumstances...."

Yo, Gary, stop trying to fool the troops here. We're not talking 17 months, we're talking 20 games. Your league just gave a guy who broke another guy's neck, gave him a career-threatening concussion and damaged the precious reputation of your league throughout the world, a 20-game suspension....

Bertuzzi was suspended indefinitely. Can you imagine what would have happened if Bettman, after investigating the attack, had told the watching world, fans and non-fans alike, that he was suspending Bertuzzi for a mere 20 games?

Yet that's the price Bettman has placed on the career of the hockey players who play in his league. It's the value he places on what Moore does for a living, of his chosen profession. In fact it's what Bettman thinks the value should be on Moore's quality of life. "


I am personally disgusted with Bettman and the NHL and even more so with the probability of Bertuzzi joining the Canadian Olympic team. If he is on it, I for one shall have complete disinterest in the results of that team.

It is still another black day for hockey.

I am really starting to admire Bettman. Justice has been served and lets move on now.

I was ecstatic at the fact that Bertuzzi was reinstated. The man has paid his dues and I can only imagine how hard this was on him.

I say get rid of those gutless pukes like Moore and let the real men play hockey.

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08-09-2005, 11:16 AM
  #33
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Disgusting, he should have been given a couple of games

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Old
08-09-2005, 11:16 AM
  #34
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Moore really will not win much.If he could never play again then yes he could of.But now all he can hope for is for some to pay off his medical bills about $65,000.

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08-09-2005, 11:22 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlap
Fair enough. But one clarification, I don't tolerate Bertuzzi's actions at all. I think a serious penalty was called for- and delivered.


My Mikado is sketchy(I get most of my info from the movie Topsy Turvy, which is great), but doesn't one of the charactrers end up having to marry the fat girl? Perhaps that should be the final part of Bertuzzi's punishment.

I take your point. Fair enough. We disagree on the penalty.

And I also agree that a forced marriage to Katysha would be a most appropriate punishment (it was the executioner who was forced to marry her - how apropos) as it would be for a lifetime which is about right.

Topsy Turvy is brilliant (see - we can agree) as are all of Miike Leigh's movies but I would recommend you buy the dvd of the Stratford Festival Mikado that was done about 15 years ago. It is by far the best Mikado I have ever seen.

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08-09-2005, 11:25 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBlue
I am really starting to admire Bettman. Justice has been served and lets move on now.

I was ecstatic at the fact that Bertuzzi was reinstated. The man has paid his dues and I can only imagine how hard this was on him.

I say get rid of those gutless pukes like Moore and let the real men play hockey.

Responses to this thread, whether or not I agree with them, have for the most part been defensible and reasonable.

Your ignorant nonsense is, fortunately, the exception. You clearly identify with the criminal and blame the victim. Most civilized folk have moved on from this sort of attitude.


Last edited by Augustus: 08-09-2005 at 11:48 AM.
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Old
08-09-2005, 11:27 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by jaydog2005
There were some reports it was the pile up that did moore in.
Being in a pile up can't be good for an unconscious man, with a broken neck.

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Old
08-09-2005, 03:16 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
[url]
"But Moore's lawyer Tim Danson said the ruling means Bertuzzi can earn $5.2 million US this year while his client doesn't know if he'll ever play hockey again.

"Steve Moore is disappointed by the decision because he is unable to resume his career and my never resume his NHL career," Danson said in an interview.

"Steve has an uncertain future. He's got health challenges to deal with. While he maintains a very positive attitude . . . at this point he really is in the hands of doctors who will have to make the determination whether or not he will be able to play again."

Danson also denied reports in a Toronto newspaper that a doctor has given Moore medical clearance to play hockey again.

"That statement is significantly false," Danson said.

...

Danson said Bertuzzi should be suspended for 82 games, the same penalty Marty McSorley received for clubbing Donald Brashear on the head with his stick.

He also rejected the idea Bertuzzi suffered during the lockout.

"I think the lost year shouldn't count," Danson said.

"Steve Moore was unable to play in Europe as well. I don't think it's proportional to the injuries that were suffered by Steve Moore."
"
If Steve Moore never plays hockey again, it won't be because of health reasons. It will be because he's a lousy hockey player.

Bertuzzi's already sat out from work for a year and a half, missed out on something like half a million in salary in the NHL and millions in Europe last season, not to mention missing participation at the World Cup and the World Championships. This doesn't even take into consideration that Bertuzzi will have to live with a tarnished reputation for the rest of his career/life.

What Bertuzzi did was horrible, but probably not any worse than the Domi sucker punch on Samuelsson or the Johnson punch to Beukeboom's head. The only difference is a bunch of other hockey players didn't pile up on them, causing the injury to be worse.

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Old
08-09-2005, 03:28 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recidivist
Not sure this Leaf board is proper place for this thread but I don't want to troll to Canuck board and I am curious how many people here think Bertuzzi should have been so quickly reinstated. As Morris Dalla Costa in the London Free Press wrote:

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/London...64967-sun.html

"The so-called new National Hockey League is a lot like the old National Hockey League when it comes to guts. It doesn't have any.

The NHL has reinstated Vancouver Canuck Todd Bertuzzi....

Bertuzzi's suspension lasted 13 regular season games and seven playoff games. He lost about $500,000 US in salary.

In an effort to befuddle right-thinking hockey fans who recognize the reinstatement as a joke, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman released the following statement:

"A total suspension of approximately 17 calendar months from the date of the incident is the appropriate sanction to impose in this case given the nature and severity of the act in question and the overall totality of circumstances...."

Yo, Gary, stop trying to fool the troops here. We're not talking 17 months, we're talking 20 games. Your league just gave a guy who broke another guy's neck, gave him a career-threatening concussion and damaged the precious reputation of your league throughout the world, a 20-game suspension....

Bertuzzi was suspended indefinitely. Can you imagine what would have happened if Bettman, after investigating the attack, had told the watching world, fans and non-fans alike, that he was suspending Bertuzzi for a mere 20 games?

Yet that's the price Bettman has placed on the career of the hockey players who play in his league. It's the value he places on what Moore does for a living, of his chosen profession. In fact it's what Bettman thinks the value should be on Moore's quality of life. "


I am personally disgusted with Bettman and the NHL and even more so with the probability of Bertuzzi joining the Canadian Olympic team. If he is on it, I for one shall have complete disinterest in the results of that team.

It is still another black day for hockey.
I agree with you the NHL dropped the ball on this. they can fool themselves saying it was a year suspension but it sure as hell wasn't. Let him sit another year, IMO.

Although, I'm not sure I won't watch the Olympic team. I won't be happy if he's on it, but I'll still cheer for my countries team.

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Old
08-09-2005, 04:32 PM
  #40
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I am a huge Bertuzzi fan, I'm very glad he is back! I just wish he wore Leaf jerseys not Nucks! I also love how Moore whines about how terrible Bert is, what a ******** hypocrite! Don't think for one second that you will ever get anything but boos in VAN after that cheap shot to Naslund!

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08-09-2005, 06:02 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Recidivist
. . .
Topsy Turvy is brilliant (see - we can agree) as are all of Miike Leigh's movies but I would recommend you buy the dvd of the Stratford Festival Mikado that was done about 15 years ago. It is by far the best Mikado I have ever seen.

I am a big Mike Leigh fan as well. I loved Vera Drake. I'll look for the Mikado DVD. I have almost zero opportunity to see Gilbert and Sullivan where I live, so I have been wanting to find good productions that I could watch on television.

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08-09-2005, 09:05 PM
  #42
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even more so with the probability of Bertuzzi joining the Canadian Olympic team. If he is on it, I for one shall have complete disinterest in the results of that team.
this is the worst part of the bertuzzi reinstatement for me. i cannot cheer for any team this goon plays on.

i'm shocked that wayne gretzky and hockey canada would have this guy on the team. sure he's a great player, but canada will win gold with or without him. its not right to have a goon who is such a controversial figure on this team. it isn't fair to fans in canada who want to cheer for our team.

as for the nhl, it seems like everyone involved in the nhl wants bert back, so if that's what they want, that's what they should get. and i hope he breaks someone else's neck. eventually they will learn.

i'm so sick of the "poor bert" crowd. he missed 20 freakin games. that's nothing for intentionally breaking someone's neck. he has a history of violence and obviously has no control over his actions. he's a goon and he doesn't deserve to play hockey. but if this is what the hockey world wants, this is what the hockey world deserves. more broken necks.

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08-09-2005, 09:35 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie
this is the worst part of the bertuzzi reinstatement for me. i cannot cheer for any team this goon plays on.

i'm shocked that wayne gretzky and hockey canada would have this guy on the team. sure he's a great player, but canada will win gold with or without him. its not right to have a goon who is such a controversial figure on this team. it isn't fair to fans in canada who want to cheer for our team.

as for the nhl, it seems like everyone involved in the nhl wants bert back, so if that's what they want, that's what they should get. and i hope he breaks someone else's neck. eventually they will learn.

i'm so sick of the "poor bert" crowd. he missed 20 freakin games. that's nothing for intentionally breaking someone's neck. he has a history of violence and obviously has no control over his actions. he's a goon and he doesn't deserve to play hockey. but if this is what the hockey world wants, this is what the hockey world deserves. more broken necks.
Then I won't consider you Canadian!


Last edited by Vincent_TheGreat: 08-09-2005 at 09:44 PM.
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Old
08-09-2005, 09:40 PM
  #44
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My feelings on the Bertuzzi issue are his penalty should exceed 82 regular season games.
His gutless act should further be penalized criminally and punitively.
Allowing him on the olympic team is insulting to me as a Canadian citizen.

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08-09-2005, 10:13 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recidivist
Not sure this Leaf board is proper place for this thread but I don't want to troll to Canuck board and I am curious how many people here think Bertuzzi should have been so quickly reinstated. As Morris Dalla Costa in the London Free Press wrote:

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/London...64967-sun.html

"The so-called new National Hockey League is a lot like the old National Hockey League when it comes to guts. It doesn't have any.

The NHL has reinstated Vancouver Canuck Todd Bertuzzi....

Bertuzzi's suspension lasted 13 regular season games and seven playoff games. He lost about $500,000 US in salary.

In an effort to befuddle right-thinking hockey fans who recognize the reinstatement as a joke, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman released the following statement:

"A total suspension of approximately 17 calendar months from the date of the incident is the appropriate sanction to impose in this case given the nature and severity of the act in question and the overall totality of circumstances...."

Yo, Gary, stop trying to fool the troops here. We're not talking 17 months, we're talking 20 games. Your league just gave a guy who broke another guy's neck, gave him a career-threatening concussion and damaged the precious reputation of your league throughout the world, a 20-game suspension....

Bertuzzi was suspended indefinitely. Can you imagine what would have happened if Bettman, after investigating the attack, had told the watching world, fans and non-fans alike, that he was suspending Bertuzzi for a mere 20 games?

Yet that's the price Bettman has placed on the career of the hockey players who play in his league. It's the value he places on what Moore does for a living, of his chosen profession. In fact it's what Bettman thinks the value should be on Moore's quality of life. "


I am personally disgusted with Bettman and the NHL and even more so with the probability of Bertuzzi joining the Canadian Olympic team. If he is on it, I for one shall have complete disinterest in the results of that team.

It is still another black day for hockey.
It don't make sense not to have Bertuzzi in the NHL...Moore might need special medical attention for the rest of his life + huge $$$ compensation. The more Todd makes-The more Steve can get from him. Bottom line-Bertuzzi needs to get back to work to compensate Moore fairly IMO.

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08-09-2005, 10:30 PM
  #46
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One things for sure....with the way some Leaf fans here are reacting to Bertuzzi....I can't wait till he gets to play against your team.

We'll see who's then..

Bertuzzi on Canucks>>>>Maple Leafs

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08-09-2005, 10:55 PM
  #47
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The damages moore recieved where not from tuzzi it the most of it was from the 4-5 guys that pilled on afterwards. had they not pilled on moore would have been injured sure but not near as bad as he is now.

Bert is back everyone should be happy he's a great player who's rage got the best of him when someone did a cheap shot on his captain, linemate and friend. it happens.

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08-09-2005, 10:57 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresFan44
One things for sure....with the way some Leaf fans here are reacting to Bertuzzi....I can't wait till he gets to play against your team.

We'll see who's then..

Bertuzzi on Canucks>>>>Maple Leafs
Guess you didn't follow NHL hockey in 02/03 and 03/04.

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08-10-2005, 12:54 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by leaflover
Guess you didn't follow NHL hockey in 02/03 and 03/04.
Either way the Canucks made it futher then the Leafs in 02/03, and would have in 03/04 had Todd been in the lineup.

There's no denying any of that

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08-10-2005, 01:18 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by bbb_leafs
The damages moore recieved where not from tuzzi it the most of it was from the 4-5 guys that pilled on afterwards. had they not pilled on moore would have been injured sure but not near as bad as he is now.

Yeah that punch to the head that knocked him out on his feet did nothing. Neither did him smacking his head on the ice with the force of tuzzi on top of him. Neither did having tuzzi's fist at the base of his neck driving his head into the ice, have anything to do with his injured neck. It was the pile on. In fact, Moore probably would've fallen down anyways, and a pile on would've ensued, and he would've been just as equally injured.

The real victim is Todd Bertuzzi!!
When is the NHL going to put a stop to these pile ons???

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