HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Why won't Molson cover for income taxes ?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-12-2014, 06:09 PM
  #1
#57
Registered User
 
#57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,812
vCash: 500
Why won't Molson cover for income taxes ?

It is well known that Montreal's taxes policy makes the Habs quite a bit unattracting for free agents who are going for big paychecks compare to a state like Florida that basically has no taxes on income. Montreal players will likely lose around 50% of their yearly salary to the government which is ridiculous considering most of them will only stay in Quebec for 2-3 years.

Now there is an alternative to this and I'm not sure why it has not been discuted yet. We're one of the richer teams in the league, but with the salary cap we can't just spend up to have a 100M payroll, unfortunately. But what can Molson do, is offer the government some money per year (not sure of the amount), to cover for the players' income taxes. Which would mean the Montreal Canadiens players wouldn't be taxed on their income anymore. So $6M would become... $6M. How magical ?

Basically if Player A wants a $7M salary and Montreal offers him that... his agent will tell him that after taxes, he'll only have around 3.5M left. No way he signs here.

Molson has enough money to cover for his players' taxes. That would be one loophole he could exploit. He needs to do it. Negociate something with the government, now ! We have not won the cup in more than 20 years, everything we can put to our advantage, we need to do it. And it starts now with Vanek.

#57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 06:12 PM
  #2
Le Tricolore
Boo! Booooo!
 
Le Tricolore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 27,647
vCash: 137
Somehow I think that's illegal. Be it federal or provincial law... Or just circumventing the cap.

Le Tricolore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 06:18 PM
  #3
dreamingofdrouin*
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,677
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
Somehow I think that's illegal. Be it federal or provincial law... Or just circumventing the cap.
Yah....seems like it.....but when you think about fairness...if florida can offer a guy 7 million and he gets 7 million, and montreal can offer a guy 7 million and he only gets 4, it's really not fair....but bettman will say o, suck it...your the ****ing canadiens you have enough money and enough fans...deal with it.....they will side with the little guys because they want balance...and giving us this option will only hurt smaller markets from signing the big name tuna's that attract fans

dreamingofdrouin* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 06:18 PM
  #4
JLP
La Sainte-Flanelle
 
JLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,425
vCash: 500
Yup good point. Would level the playing field but it is not allowed if I remember correctly. Another example of how Canadian teams get taken in Bettman's NHL.

JLP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 06:19 PM
  #5
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
 
waffledave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,430
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by #57 View Post
It is well known that Montreal's taxes policy makes the Habs quite a bit unattracting for free agents who are going for big paychecks compare to a state like Florida that basically has no taxes on income. Montreal players will likely lose around 50% of their yearly salary to the government which is ridiculous considering most of them will only stay in Quebec for 2-3 years.

Now there is an alternative to this and I'm not sure why it has not been discuted yet. We're one of the richer teams in the league, but with the salary cap we can't just spend up to have a 100M payroll, unfortunately. But what can Molson do, is offer the government some money per year (not sure of the amount), to cover for the players' income taxes. Which would mean the Montreal Canadiens players wouldn't be taxed on their income anymore. So $6M would become... $6M. How magical ?

Basically if Player A wants a $7M salary and Montreal offers him that... his agent will tell him that after taxes, he'll only have around 3.5M left. No way he signs here.

Molson has enough money to cover for his players' taxes. That would be one loophole he could exploit. He needs to do it. Negociate something with the government, now ! We have not won the cup in more than 20 years, everything we can put to our advantage, we need to do it. And it starts now with Vanek.
1) It is cap circumvention

2) It is illegal from a tax point of view (the money Molson is fronting to pay the taxes indirectly goes to the players and thus, is taxable income)

3) Molson is rich but he isn't Daddy Warbucks with infinite money to throw around. Man, I don't know what it is with Montrealers in general but there seems to be this segment of the population that feel rich people shouldn't care about money because they are rich.

__________________
Yours in Christ,

waffledave
waffledave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 06:21 PM
  #6
Team_Spirit
Tinordi-Subban
 
Team_Spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 20,679
vCash: 700
Difference is around 200k for a mid level player..around 500k for elite players. Hence why all our players are overpaid (except Subban...Price is tax-free as a native)



Team_Spirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 06:22 PM
  #7
JusticeBeaver
Twitter: @gar****al
 
JusticeBeaver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Charlottetown
Country: Canada
Posts: 719
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
Somehow I think that's illegal. Be it federal or provincial law... Or just circumventing the cap.
Blamo, and I couldn't be bothered with any player that's more obsessed with a few millions than playing for the the habs.

JusticeBeaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 06:23 PM
  #8
dreamingofdrouin*
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,677
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
wow...this has been informative...i though florida had no taxes? why do they only get 4.2 from 7 million?

dreamingofdrouin* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 06:25 PM
  #9
Team_Spirit
Tinordi-Subban
 
Team_Spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 20,679
vCash: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingofdrouin View Post
wow...this has been informative...i though florida had no taxes? why do they only get 4.2 from 7 million?
Federal taxes still apply. Kinda like Alberta.

Team_Spirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 06:26 PM
  #10
Primrose Everdeen
Safe and Sound
 
Primrose Everdeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Midtown Phoenix
Country: France
Posts: 61,062
vCash: 100
One could argue that theoretically it's not illegal for an employer to pay an employee's income tax for them, but that's kind of a moot point, because there's no way to argue that it's not cap circumvention.

__________________
Signatures are dumb.
Primrose Everdeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 06:29 PM
  #11
Stjonnypopo
Rgesitreed Uesr
 
Stjonnypopo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mount Doom
Posts: 10,477
vCash: 506
It would be cool if the NHL could take income tax into account, but it would have to be retroactive because if a player is traded it would mess everything up.

Maybe the cap could be based off of net salaries, and the team organizes itself to pay what's required?

Then again, this would never happen because the current structure favours USA based teams (and in turn, disadvantages Canadian teams) which isn't really considered a "problem" for the NHL aka Gary Bettman.

Stjonnypopo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 06:30 PM
  #12
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,340
vCash: 500
maybe Molson should pay their grocery, car/house insurances, maybe their summer vacations too ?

ECWHSWI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 06:32 PM
  #13
Stjonnypopo
Rgesitreed Uesr
 
Stjonnypopo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mount Doom
Posts: 10,477
vCash: 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Difference is around 200k for a mid level player..around 500k for elite players. Hence why all our players are overpaid (except Subban...Price is tax-free as a native)
Are you sure Price is tax-free? I know he's part native but I figure I would have heard about that before...

And would that mean that Bourque/Tootoo/Cheechoo didn't pay taxes either?

Somehow I doubt it...

Stjonnypopo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 06:34 PM
  #14
Frankenheimer
Registered User
 
Frankenheimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: MTL
Posts: 1,896
vCash: 500
I agree with the idea that the salary cap should be calculated after taxes, or that it should have some impact on calculations. Not sure how that can be measured, but I'm sure it can. Im not sure the disparity is as large as 0% taxes in Florida and 70% taxes in Quebec, but it would be interesting to get the real numbers.

Edit, ok someone posted them. Good.

Frankenheimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 06:34 PM
  #15
Prendan Brust
Registered User
 
Prendan Brust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,507
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Difference is around 200k for a mid level player..around 500k for elite players. Hence why all our players are overpaid (except Subban...Price is tax-free as a native)


Price pays income taxes. Natives pay income taxes when they work outside a reserve. And unfortunately for most natives, there aren't many jobs on reserves...

Prendan Brust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 06:35 PM
  #16
JLP
La Sainte-Flanelle
 
JLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,425
vCash: 500
I don't know why my comment was removed, maybe I'm imaging that. Anyway from the US$ pay rate to the "revenue sharing" (CDN teams supporting southern teams) to the tax problem described in the OP which effectively lowers CDN teams' caps, to the recent Rogers deal (a bonanza of of Canadian cash that will be shared between all teams), there are many examples of how Canada is subsidizing the NHL.

This is just another example because clearly the Habs do not have a level playing field come UFA season.

JLP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 06:38 PM
  #17
Swarez
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 670
vCash: 500
If company gives you money its taxable. If they give you money to cover taxes, its taxable benefit, which means taxed. You can not earn free money in North America, well not legally.

Plus what are saying it tax circumvention, you want Habs to double there payroll.

Swarez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 06:41 PM
  #18
Swarez
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 670
vCash: 500
BTW that article is now fairly out of date, Alberta now has lowest taxes in NA for people earning over $150K/year , Tax Free states have basically hit 40% because of US federal taxes.

Swarez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 06:46 PM
  #19
loudi94
Master of my Domain
 
loudi94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,392
vCash: 50
These guys should all have pretty good accountants to help offset some of those taxes.

loudi94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 07:13 PM
  #20
RealityBytes
Trash Remover
 
RealityBytes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: British Antarctic Territory
Posts: 713
vCash: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
These guys should all have pretty good accountants to help offset some of those taxes.
They do. Plus there is also the foreign entertainers tax act, Can-US tax agreements, plus additional job related deferments. They do not just pay the same income tax as a normal local working stiff who has none of these tax avoidances available.

If it really was as simple as the OP imagines, would any US/foreign player play in Canada in any sport? ... not only hockey, but also basketball & baseball. Would any entertainer perform here? A lot of these deferments were brought in to protect the Canadian movie/entertainment industry but they apply to sports as well.

Before statements are made, posters should check this out in further detail with a CA/CPA specializing in sports and entertainment.


Last edited by RealityBytes: 03-12-2014 at 07:19 PM.
RealityBytes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 07:20 PM
  #21
MasterDecoy
Carlos Danger
 
MasterDecoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Beijing
Posts: 9,922
vCash: 1707
illegal and he isn't a charity

MasterDecoy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 07:25 PM
  #22
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 23,675
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
maybe Molson should pay their grocery, car/house insurances, maybe their summer vacations too ?
Ya. And why do fans have to pay for the beers too? I mean, Molson owns the beers. Why doesn't he give it for free?

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 07:27 PM
  #23
Macs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 393
vCash: 500
Pretty funny thread. Because you are a hockey superstar, you're not paying your income taxes.

If your employer pays your taxes, it is exactly as if he gave you more salary. Thus, you will pay tax on this additional income.

Trust me, I'm a CPA

Macs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 07:41 PM
  #24
JackieChan
Registered User
 
JackieChan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,562
vCash: 500
This issue has been irrelevant for some time now. All they have to do us spend a day more than half the year in the us and they will only pay us federal and state tax. There is an exception specific to athletes part of leagues regularly playing in both countries in the us-can tax treaty. One of the reasons they bolt right after the habs are done at the end of the season/playoffs. Their accountants watch their agendas closely, and the fisc does too!

Edit: Source:

https://www.fin.gc.ca/treaties-conventions/usa_-eng.asp

Article XVI, 3(a)


Last edited by JackieChan: 03-12-2014 at 07:57 PM.
JackieChan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2014, 07:49 PM
  #25
Edgy
Registered User
 
Edgy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Country: Jordan
Posts: 489
vCash: 500
Because it makes no business sense for him to lose millions of dollars to cover players' taxes. This is a business and adding to your operating expenses diminishes your net profit which basically defeats the point of running a business.

Edgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:14 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.