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Old
02-18-2014, 10:26 AM
  #26
le_sean
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Is he better than Nokelainen ? Better than Halpern ?
Those two couldn't skate or hit. Weise brings a different, and much needed, skillset.

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02-18-2014, 11:23 AM
  #27
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I liked Halpern. Nokelainen was pretty forgettable.

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02-18-2014, 11:33 AM
  #28
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Since our defense is good and our offense is suffering, I'll say that I don't care if Halpern was better defensively than Weise.

I love the fact that Weise-Bourni-White usually manage to clog the opposition into their zone and give them cold sweat.

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02-18-2014, 11:45 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Tinordi Ruxpin View Post
There's no doubt that the 4th line looks alot better since he joined it.
Uh, I think there's no doubt that the 4th line looks a lot better since Ryan White came back, and Weiss has simply been a non-disappointing "breath of fresh air" alongside him.

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02-18-2014, 11:48 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Uh, I think there's no doubt that the 4th line looks a lot better since Ryan White came back, and Weiss has simply been a non-disappointing "breath of fresh air" alongside him.
White's return certainly played a big part.

But Weise' speed and physicality is certainly playing a part. Plus, there seems to be a nice chemistry between Bournival and Weise regarding their respective speed; kind of a competition.

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02-18-2014, 11:59 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
White's return certainly played a big part.
Like, by far the biggest part; even just by "simple reckoning", which obviously avoids the positional impact of a centre vs a winger. After 3 games:

7 hits, 9 shots, 3 points, 30 mins ice time
7 hits, 4 shots, 1 point, 37 mins ice time

White's scoring since coming back has also involved 5 different players, while Weiss' lone point came as a secondary assist on one of White's goals. Feel free to judge/measure differently, if you like.

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02-18-2014, 12:03 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Like, by far the biggest part; even just by "simple reckoning", which obviously avoids the positional impact of a centre vs a winger. After 3 games:

7 hits, 9 shots, 3 points, 30 mins ice time
7 hits, 4 shots, 1 point, 37 mins ice time

White's scoring since coming back has also involved 5 different players, while Weiss' lone point came as a secondary assist on one of White's goals. Feel free to judge/measure differently, if you like.
What about +/-?

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02-18-2014, 12:08 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
What about +/-?
What about it? Is both of them being +1 over those 3 games more demonstrative of something to you than literally everything else?

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02-18-2014, 12:20 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
What about it? Is both of them being +1 over those 3 games more demonstrative of something to you than literally everything else?
No. Just wondering if Weise's presence and physical commitment to clog the opposition's defensive is a contributor to White's success.

Sure, Weise is not skilled enough to contribute constantly to offense, but he sure helps maintain puck possession in the O-zone.

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02-18-2014, 12:36 PM
  #35
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White Weise instant chemistry I love it. With either Bournival or Moen it's the best 4th line we've had in years.

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02-18-2014, 12:37 PM
  #36
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Weise-White-Bournival

is quite a young and dynamic line. Prust gets a promotion on the third line. I understand Moen has experience and all but guys like white,bournival,weise, dumont, nattinen, leblanc holland are much more young and better.

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02-18-2014, 12:38 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
No. Just wondering if Weise's presence and physical commitment to clog the opposition's defensive is a contributor to White's success.

Sure, Weise is not skilled enough to contribute constantly to offense, but he sure helps maintain puck possession in the O-zone.
I think you're forgetting which of these two guys patrols the middle of the ice and/or not watching the games close enough to notice how much jump has been in White's game, in particular, since coming back - even (especially?) compared to Weiss (who still, presumably, hasn't figured out that he's possibly in an even worse spot than he was in Vancouver when it comes to possibly moving up from 4th line duties any time in the future).

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02-18-2014, 12:39 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by FazChenyuk View Post
Weise-White-Bournival

is quite a young and dynamic line. Prust gets a promotion on the third line. I understand Moen has experience and all but guys like white,bournival,weise, dumont, nattinen, leblanc holland are much more young and better.
Your hatred for Moen is so unwarranted and makes me question your hockey knowledge. None of those guys are better than Moen and most likely will never be (maybe Bournival). Younger =/= better.

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02-18-2014, 12:42 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
Your hatred for Moen is so unwarranted and makes me question your hockey knowledge. None of those guys are better than Moen and most likely will never be (maybe Bournival). Younger =/= better.
You are correct and I have a huge huge problem with one thing though. Why the hell does he get to play in the top 6? His one goal in 50 games just shows the fact that he simply isn't a good offensive player. Don't tell me it's because of injuries because in the past years, Moen's got plenty of ice time in the top 6. Now, I understand we got him for his experience and all around good play (Offence?) but he is easily replacable. Have we been winning games since he hasn't played? Yes. He is simply VERY VERY replacable. Keep in mind that we draft guys in 3rd or 4th rounds that can play in our bottom lines. Guys like Nattinen, Dumont can't play with us because of veterans. A line of Weise-White-Bournival just shows us that we have better alternatives for our 4th line then playing Moen and Parros.

Not potential to becoming better then Moen? That would be an overstatement consireding that White got more goals in the last game then Moen all season. Bournival has sometimes been projected to become a 2nd liner which Moen isn't talented enough to play in.

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02-18-2014, 12:45 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I think you're forgetting which of these two guys patrols the middle of the ice and/or not watching the games close enough to notice how much jump has been in White's game, in particular, since coming back - even (especially?) compared to Weiss (who still, presumably, hasn't figured out that he's possibly in an even worse spot than he was in Vancouver when it comes to possibly moving up from 4th line duties any time in the future).
Weise is still extremely active along the board and is usually damn quick in recovering the puck following a puck battle involving White or Bournival.

Just because he isn't the main playmaker or in the centre of the ice doesn't mean he doesn't contribute to the 4th line's duties.

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02-18-2014, 12:51 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by FazChenyuk View Post
You are correct and I have a huge huge problem with one thing though. Why the hell does he get to play in the top 6? His one goal in 50 games just shows the fact that he simply isn't a good offensive player. Don't tell me it's because of injuries because in the past years, Moen's got plenty of ice time in the top 6. Now, I understand we got him for his experience and all around good play (Offence?) but he is easily replacable. Have we been winning games since he hasn't played? Yes. He is simply VERY VERY replacable. Keep in mind that we draft guys in 3rd or 4th rounds that can play in our bottom lines. Guys like Nattinen, Dumont can't play with us because of veterans. A line of Weise-White-Bournival just shows us that we have better alternatives for our 4th line then playing Moen and Parros.
He plays in the top 6 in situations where the coach wants someone who will play a smart mistake free game who can shutdown other team's top lines. Moen was effective under that role under Jacques Martin when he would put him with Gionta & Gomez. He's shown that he can help team win games when he did exactly that for the Ducks in 07 and helped them neutralize Ottawa's top line consisting of Heatley, Spezza and Alfredsson who was red hot in those playoffs (they all had 22 pts in 20GP). Sure him having one goal this season is a tad disappointing since he's usually good for 8-12 goals during the season. But that doesn't make him expandable. Him and Plekanec form (and have been forming) our best duo on the PK for years now. There's a reason why those guys Nattinen (too slow for the NHL and too average at everything else quite frankly) and Dumont (size, if he was 5'11 he'd be in the NHL) are not in the NHL. It's not because of our depth in our bottom 6. There's a reason why Diaz was traded for a NHL regular in Weise because Bergevin and Lefebvre don't believe that Dumont and Nattinen can be NHL regulars. Prust has been worse than Moen this year, how come you don't complain about him?

I do agree on one thing though, that Bournival-White-Weise line has been pretty good in that small stretch we've seen of them. That doesn't mean we can't strategically play that line against bigger teams who are slow. It's called using tactics with the cards you're dealt.

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02-18-2014, 12:52 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Weise is still extremely active along the board and is usually damn quick in recovering the puck following a puck battle involving White or Bournival.

Just because he isn't the main playmaker or in the centre of the ice doesn't mean he doesn't contribute to the 4th line's duties.
It also doesn't mean he's better at performing that function than, say, Moen, just for one example of someone else who is more than easily enough replaced by any number of existing (or even soon-to-be) NHLers who have both proven more and have more potential in organizations around the league (including our own).

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02-18-2014, 02:34 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
White Weise instant chemistry I love it. With either Bournival or Moen it's the best 4th line we've had in years.
Prust White Moen was just as good. Tougher and better defensively while also chipping in the odd goal.

I'd like to see Weise get a shot with more skilled players(Plekanec Eller lines) and see if he can produce a bit more offense than in Vancouver.

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02-18-2014, 02:59 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Prust White Moen was just as good. Tougher and better defensively while also chipping in the odd goal.

I'd like to see Weise get a shot with more skilled players(Plekanec Eller lines) and see if he can produce a bit more offense than in Vancouver.
if he keeps it up than he at least deserves a look on a better line. Sometimes 4th line grinder types can work well in top 9 roles. I think his puck skills are decent enough.

Maybe try him with Eller and Galchenyuk. They're all young. Could be a AK-Eller-Moen v2.0

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02-19-2014, 03:37 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Prust White Moen was just as good. Tougher and better defensively while also chipping in the odd goal.

I'd like to see Weise get a shot with more skilled players(Plekanec Eller lines) and see if he can produce a bit more offense than in Vancouver.
If Briere, Gionta and Bourque would be dumped at trade deadline, guys likd Galchenyuk, Bournival and Weise would have more important roles on the top-9 group.

Then your Moen-White - Prust 4th line would make sense and might be efficient.

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02-19-2014, 10:57 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I think you're forgetting which of these two guys patrols the middle of the ice and/or not watching the games close enough to notice how much jump has been in White's game, in particular, since coming back - even (especially?) compared to Weiss (who still, presumably, hasn't figured out that he's possibly in an even worse spot than he was in Vancouver when it comes to possibly moving up from 4th line duties any time in the future).
Could you please restate this in plain English?

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02-20-2014, 01:35 AM
  #47
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Could you please restate this in plain English?
White >> Weiss. Maybe even >>>.

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Old
02-20-2014, 10:51 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FazChenyuk View Post
Weise-White-Bournival

is quite a young and dynamic line. Prust gets a promotion on the third line. I understand Moen has experience and all but guys like white,bournival,weise, dumont, nattinen, leblanc holland are much more young and better.
None of these guys is ****ing better than Moen . And he doesn't really get that much top 6 minutes.

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02-20-2014, 12:59 PM
  #49
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Well, Moen won't get any top 6 role anytime soon, that's for sure.

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Gallagher
Briere-Plekanec-Gionta

Barring a trade, we'll win or die with that as our top 6.
Then you have to fit Glachenyuk and Eller with Prust, Moen, Bourque, White, Weise, Bournival and Parros to complete the line-up haha.

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02-20-2014, 01:45 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FazChenyuk View Post
Weise-White-Bournival

is quite a young and dynamic line. Prust gets a promotion on the third line. I understand Moen has experience and all but guys like white,bournival,weise, dumont, nattinen, leblanc holland are much more young and better.
nooooooooo.... in what world is Nattinen better than Moen

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