HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Dale Weise

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-06-2014, 01:15 AM
  #201
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 16,678
vCash: 500
There was no need for a Dman like Diaz but an acute need for a forward like Weise. Diaz proved to be excess baggage for the Canuckleheads (who traded him as soon as they could) but everyone saw Bergevin dance gleefully as Weise scored an OT goal in TB. Does any Hab fan not like Weise?

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 05:54 AM
  #202
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 28,568
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Diaz proved to be excess baggage for the Canuckleheads (who traded him as soon as they could)
Somehow he "proved" something while playing 96 total minutes for a coach that was fired after year 1 of a 5 year contract, and couldn't find a role for Weise on that team. That "excess baggage" is currently playing in the same round of the playoffs as us, btw, and was one of his team's better players last night.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 07:39 AM
  #203
Tuggy
Registered User
 
Tuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Saint John
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,223
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Somehow he "proved" something while playing 96 total minutes for a coach that was fired after year 1 of a 5 year contract, and couldn't find a role for Weise on that team. That "excess baggage" is currently playing in the same round of the playoffs as us, btw, and was one of his team's better players last night.
The Rangers PP has been a joke in these playoffs and they just got shutout on back-to-back nights by MAF. Since Diaz is a part of that PP and team, it's not something I would shout from the rooftops.

Tuggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 08:29 AM
  #204
Blind Gardien
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 20,538
vCash: 500
I think it's reasonable that Diaz has a hard time cracking into an established lineup, he isn't anybody's ideal choice on paper. But as we saw when he does get elevated into more responsibility, he's actually a very effective player, probably "surprisingly effective". Teams would always rather have more size in their lower pairings. I'm not surprised that he didn't set the world on fire in Vancouver or New York. It took a while for him to win trust here too. All that surprises me is that once he did win that trust, and was so effective when he won it, we _still_ jettisoned him. Some teams have better options, and some teams at least "think"/hope they have better options and it's hard to disprove that when the player doesn't get the chance to play. But for us, with our merryground bottom pairing of disaster, he had already proven he was the better option, that's why I find it weird how he was so summarily demoted and jettisoned.

Anyway, spilt milk under the bridge now, I just hope he finds a place to sign in the NHL for next season. He's definitely an NHL caliber player and should be a regular somewhere.

And yeah, that said, I wouldn't consider signing him for the Habs.

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 09:00 AM
  #205
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 13,578
vCash: 500
Bergevin has tough decisions to make on D this coming summer. Beaulieu, Tinordi, Pateryn have all earned a legitimate shot and have little more to learn in Hamilton.

But Weaver has played real well.

DAChampion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 09:04 AM
  #206
Rapala
Chasin'TheCup
 
Rapala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,909
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
The Rangers PP has been a joke in these playoffs and they just got shutout on back-to-back nights by MAF. Since Diaz is a part of that PP and team, it's not something I would shout from the rooftops.
Diaz was a bust here as far as I'm concerned.
The main issue being he could never elevate his O game to the point we could overlook his liabilities.
Highly touted very talented but just couldn't put it all together.
Did his pairing have a lot to do with it? Perhaps. Did the lines he got playing with have something to do with it? Perhaps. The bottom line is he was ineffective on the PP and on the scoresheet in general.
We didn't sign him for his Dzone prowess.

Happier with Weise.

Rapala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 09:11 AM
  #207
Lshap
Moderator
 
Lshap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,419
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
None of this means anything. A defenseman's job isn't to look good, it's to be effective. That's all that matters. If all Diaz did was cartwheels and it somehow led to keeping pucks out of the net, that would be great. The hate for diaz is mostly perception bias.
My 'perception bias' was to defend Diaz, which I did until he became less effective. This past season, other teams started playing us deeper and more physically, and Diaz didn't respond well to the pressure. I know his numbers weren't bad, but they measure what he did, not what he AVOIDED doing. I noticed plenty of times when he avoided taking a hit and avoided battling along the board. He played intimidated, getting rid of the puck instead of moving it.

Diaz reminded me of an infielder who refuses to dive for groundballs. His fielding% looks great, but he's less effective than someone who's unafraid to make errors.

Lshap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 09:15 AM
  #208
Rapala
Chasin'TheCup
 
Rapala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,909
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
My 'perception bias' was to defend Diaz, which I did until he became less effective. This past season, other teams started playing us deeper and more physically, and Diaz didn't respond well to the pressure. I know his numbers weren't bad, but they measure what he did, not what he AVOIDED doing. I noticed plenty of times when he avoided taking a hit and avoided battling along the board. He played intimidated, getting rid of the puck instead of moving it.

Diaz reminded me of an infielder who refuses to dive for groundballs. His fielding% looks great, but he's less effective than someone who's unafraid to make errors.
No Balls
Lucic couldn't hurt him.

Rapala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 09:34 AM
  #209
windycity
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Well duh
Posts: 4,222
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Gainey.

That team lost before the series started. It was probably the worst 2nd half collapse I've seen of any habs team since I started following them.

It was a carnival on and off the ice.
It was Leafs like

windycity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 10:37 AM
  #210
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 28,568
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
The Rangers PP has been a joke in these playoffs and they just got shutout on back-to-back nights by MAF. Since Diaz is a part of that PP and team, it's not something I would shout from the rooftops.
When he leads the team with 6 shots on goal in the process, I don't think you need to try so hard to lump 20 players' worth of blame onto him. Not surprised that you did, mind you, it's just that you don't have to try so hard. Enough haters are already try-harding themselves to fame in Murray threads.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 03:02 PM
  #211
overlords
youmyboyblou!
 
overlords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Planet Squanch
Posts: 26,816
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
My 'perception bias' was to defend Diaz, which I did until he became less effective. This past season, other teams started playing us deeper and more physically, and Diaz didn't respond well to the pressure. I know his numbers weren't bad, but they measure what he did, not what he AVOIDED doing. I noticed plenty of times when he avoided taking a hit and avoided battling along the board. He played intimidated, getting rid of the puck instead of moving it.

Diaz reminded me of an infielder who refuses to dive for groundballs. His fielding% looks great, but he's less effective than someone who's unafraid to make errors.
No, he's not. As evidenced by him being the 4th most effective D on this team up until his trade. Your logic doesn't hold water.

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 03:26 PM
  #212
Lshap
Moderator
 
Lshap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,419
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
No, he's not. As evidenced by him being the 4th most effective D on this team up until his trade. Your logic doesn't hold water.
4th-most effective based on what numbers?

Lshap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 03:30 PM
  #213
overlords
youmyboyblou!
 
overlords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Planet Squanch
Posts: 26,816
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
4th-most effective based on what numbers?
Pretty much all possession stats and goals for/against stats? The eye test, also, is pretty damn crucial. We rarely got hemmed in our own end with diaz, as he was very effective at getting the puck out of our end. A skill that seemingly goes underappreciated around here. Especially when considering the load he and gorges were asked to shoulder early on in the season. They were breaking even against the best of the best, allowing markov and subban to light up lower end competition. The only problem is that our third pairing was so **** that it ended up cancelling out any progress the other pairings made.

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 05:34 PM
  #214
Lshap
Moderator
 
Lshap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,419
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Pretty much all possession stats and goals for/against stats? The eye test, also, is pretty damn crucial. We rarely got hemmed in our own end with diaz, as he was very effective at getting the puck out of our end. A skill that seemingly goes underappreciated around here. Especially when considering the load he and gorges were asked to shoulder early on in the season. They were breaking even against the best of the best, allowing markov and subban to light up lower end competition. The only problem is that our third pairing was so **** that it ended up cancelling out any progress the other pairings made.
Diaz had 11 assists in 46 games for us and was a -4. Unimpressive for a player whose strength is offense.

As to the eye-test, you and I have different prescriptions. Sure, I still saw those smooth passes and occasional rushes, but I also saw many more times where Diaz backed off, gave up, or got flustered and whiffed a pass. He got less points this year, but played twice the games. That's not a coincidence, and it's not like he compensated by being a huge presence around our net.

Maybe advanced stats tell a different story. I'm happy to re-examine, if you have them, which is why I asked for numbers.

I'll repeat, I defended Diaz throughout last season and into this one. I think he's got real skill and looked like our smartest dman other than Markov. But he took a step back this year and was struggling.

Lshap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 05:39 PM
  #215
SirClintonPortis
ProudCapitalsTraitor
 
SirClintonPortis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Maryland native
Country: United States
Posts: 11,486
vCash: 500
Nothing like Goc vs Diaz yesterday. The Pens had an extended shift because Diaz's little bumps into Goc did not separate Goc from the puck. The sequence did not lead to shot on goal, so Diaz's pristine Corsi/Fenwick was not harmed, but that is his flaw. Whereas Chara could use his stick, a Hedman his body, or even Doughty with his body, Diaz was burnt by Goc but since Goc isn't a deadly forward nor were his linemates, his stats were left unharmed.

SirClintonPortis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 05:43 PM
  #216
overlords
youmyboyblou!
 
overlords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Planet Squanch
Posts: 26,816
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Diaz had 11 assists in 46 games for us and was a -4. Unimpressive for a player whose strength is offense.

As to the eye-test, you and I have different prescriptions. Sure, I still saw those smooth passes and occasional rushes, but I also saw many more times where Diaz backed off, gave up, or got flustered and whiffed a pass. He got less points this year, but played twice the games. That's not a coincidence, and it's not like he compensated by being a huge presence around our net.

Maybe advanced stats tell a different story. I'm happy to re-examine, if you have them, which is why I asked for numbers.

I'll repeat, I defended Diaz throughout last season and into this one. I think he's got real skill and looked like our smartest dman other than Markov. But he took a step back this year and was struggling.
Uh, who said his strength was offense? Or are you just assuming because he's not 6'3? You also understand that with the matchups he was given for most of the year, putting up points at evens wasn't really his objective, right? And if anything, diaz improved over his performances late last year when it appeared as if he was rushed back from a concussion.

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...-was-a-mistake

That's a pretty decent breakdown of Diaz. If you want more numbers, extraskater and behindthenet have you covered. But if your analysis of a defenseman stops at points/game, I don't know if you'll find much of use there.

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 05:53 PM
  #217
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 34,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Diaz had 11 assists in 46 games for us and was a -4. Unimpressive for a player whose strength is offense.

As to the eye-test, you and I have different prescriptions. Sure, I still saw those smooth passes and occasional rushes, but I also saw many more times where Diaz backed off, gave up, or got flustered and whiffed a pass. He got less points this year, but played twice the games. That's not a coincidence, and it's not like he compensated by being a huge presence around our net.

Maybe advanced stats tell a different story. I'm happy to re-examine, if you have them, which is why I asked for numbers.

I'll repeat, I defended Diaz throughout last season and into this one. I think he's got real skill and looked like our smartest dman other than Markov. But he took a step back this year and was struggling.
In order for Diaz to put up offensive numbers, he needs to be on a team with no Subban and Markov. You won't put up 40 points playing 20-30 seconds per PP with the 2nd PP.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 05:55 PM
  #218
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 34,936
vCash: 500
Against Boston I'd like to see Weise have more ice time, Prust is really struggling and so is Briere, Weise's size and speed should be used to bang around Boston's defense.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 06:01 PM
  #219
SirClintonPortis
ProudCapitalsTraitor
 
SirClintonPortis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Maryland native
Country: United States
Posts: 11,486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
In order for Diaz to put up offensive numbers, he needs to be on a team with no Subban and Markov. You won't put up 40 points playing 20-30 seconds per PP with the 2nd PP.
Actually, if Diaz had stepped up to the plate on the second wave, we would not need to be running Subban-Markov for the full two minutes. No, he wasn't helped by Bouillon being garbage, but he showed very mediocre-at-best pointman instincts.

SirClintonPortis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 06:04 PM
  #220
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 34,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madam Kadri View Post
Actually, if Diaz had stepped up to the plate on the second wave, we would not need to be running Subban-Markov for the full two minutes. No, he wasn't helped by Bouillon being garbage, but he showed very mediocre-at-best pointman instincts.
Look at his numbers when he was on the top PP with Markov last year, he can do the job when he gets good players with him.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 06:25 PM
  #221
SirClintonPortis
ProudCapitalsTraitor
 
SirClintonPortis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Maryland native
Country: United States
Posts: 11,486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Look at his numbers when he was on the top PP with Markov last year, he can do the job when he gets good players with him.
So, good enough to produce with Markov, yet not good enough to enter the class of players who can produce on the PP point without Andrei Markov.

Even without Markov, the Dman can still show signs of life, such as knowing when to take shots, when to pass, positioning himself into prime scoring areas, and other things required of pointmen.

SirClintonPortis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 06:31 PM
  #222
DouglasMurraysSpeed*
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 32
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Uh, who said his strength was offense? Or are you just assuming because he's not 6'3? You also understand that with the matchups he was given for most of the year, putting up points at evens wasn't really his objective, right? And if anything, diaz improved over his performances late last year when it appeared as if he was rushed back from a concussion.

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...-was-a-mistake

That's a pretty decent breakdown of Diaz. If you want more numbers, extraskater and behindthenet have you covered. But if your analysis of a defenseman stops at points/game, I don't know if you'll find much of use there.
We all know that defensemen under 6ft are offensive Dmen and 6ft3 or more is defensive Dmen.

6ft to 6ft2 = all-around dmen.

DouglasMurraysSpeed* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 08:47 PM
  #223
windycity
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Well duh
Posts: 4,222
vCash: 500
I think it's safe to say young Dale has played himself into a new contract. Kid has been great.

windycity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 08:48 PM
  #224
t0ny
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 242
vCash: 500
re sign Weise

Can we re sign this Weise dude ?
Perfect 4th liner for our roster imo.

Weise makes 750K this year. Anywhere between 750K-950K for 2 more years! Make it happen MB !

t0ny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2014, 09:05 PM
  #225
JusticeBeaver
wuba luba dub dub!
 
JusticeBeaver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Charlottetown, PE
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,475
vCash: 500
Weiss is living every one of our dreams. Grew up a habs fan, scoring OT winners/clutch goals for them in the playoffs. Keeper.

JusticeBeaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:28 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.