HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Would you gamble on Spezza?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-09-2005, 09:06 PM
  #1
MLH
Registered User
 
MLH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,292
vCash: 500
Would you gamble on Spezza?

Now I realize that if we spend any more money whatsoever it will be on defense, but just for the fun of it let's pretend Golisano really does want to see more than 14,000 fans per game and actually has intentions of spending some money. Perhaps, if we try hard enough, we can convince ourselves that Darcy is just avoiding tipping his hand as he is wont to do....

How much would you offer Jason Spezza?

Ottawa is in cap trouble, and that trouble would be amplified if NHL GMs make offer sheets to their RFA's. Ottawa is obviously a division rival and with the schedule changes they will be facing the Sabres alot in the coming years. If I were the GM of the Buffalo (assuming I had a little financial flexibility) I would make offers to both Spezza and Hossa. My numbers may be a little high, but I would go with 4 years, $4.9 million for Hossa and 4 years, $4.0 million for Spezza. It seems a bit much, but Hossa is one of the best players in the NHL and would only be a million more than Satan's would-be contract that everyone says that they would have excercised. Spezza is one of the most promising players in the league. It would be high for 2005, but in 4 years time it will be a bargain.

I'm not concerned with the draft picks we'd lose, because we could have 10 1st rounders and not get a player the quality of these two.

Ottawa would most likely match one of the two, and maybe both (though they would be hard pressed to also sign Havlat) but even if they were to, we'd be putting pressure on a rival. We couldn't afford both, but I can't see Ottawa letting both walk, a risk I'd be willing to take. It would energize the fan base, sell tickets and jerseys, and ultimately be a huge improvement on the ice. We could move three forwards to make it a little more managable economically, preferably Drury.

Realistic? No, but I don't really care.

MLH is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:11 PM
  #2
billsandsabres
nhl 94 aficianado
 
billsandsabres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: troy, ny
Posts: 2,251
vCash: 500
if cap was no issue, id offer hossa at least 5 and spezza should probably command the 5 that nash just got
but, the sabres might have a hossa clone on their hands already, so id rather wait for redden next year and give him WHATEVER THE HECK HE ASKS FOR

billsandsabres is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:11 PM
  #3
JOHNBOY
BUFFALO SABRES
 
JOHNBOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denver NC
Country: United States
Posts: 10,151
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JOHNBOY
Ottawa would never ley us get a sniff of Spezz, they would trade him to the west if they even thought we would make on offer to him. Same goes for Hossa or Havlat...

JOHNBOY is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:15 PM
  #4
TehDoak
General Zad
 
TehDoak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 18,677
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TehDoak
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLH
Now I realize that if we spend any more money whatsoever it will be on defense, but just for the fun of it let's pretend Golisano really does want to see more than 14,000 fans per game and actually has intentions of spending some money. Perhaps, if we try hard enough, we can convince ourselves that Darcy is just avoiding tipping his hand as he is wont to do....

How much would you offer Jason Spezza?

Ottawa is in cap trouble, and that trouble would be amplified if NHL GMs make offer sheets to their RFA's. Ottawa is obviously a division rival and with the schedule changes they will be facing the Sabres alot in the coming years. If I were the GM of the Buffalo (assuming I had a little financial flexibility) I would make offers to both Spezza and Hossa. My numbers may be a little high, but I would go with 4 years, $4.9 million for Hossa and 4 years, $4.0 million for Spezza. It seems a bit much, but Hossa is one of the best players in the NHL and would only be a million more than Satan's would-be contract that everyone says that they would have excercised. Spezza is one of the most promising players in the league. It would be high for 2005, but in 4 years time it will be a bargain.

I'm not concerned with the draft picks we'd lose, because we could have 10 1st rounders and not get a player the quality of these two.

Ottawa would most likely match one of the two, and maybe both (though they would be hard pressed to also sign Havlat) but even if they were to, we'd be putting pressure on a rival. We couldn't afford both, but I can't see Ottawa letting both walk, a risk I'd be willing to take. It would energize the fan base, sell tickets and jerseys, and ultimately be a huge improvement on the ice. We could move three forwards to make it a little more managable economically, preferably Drury.

Realistic? No, but I don't really care.
Huh...Spezza has 1 NHL season under his belt. Sign him a 3 year, 5-6 million dollar deal...tops. Most teams blew their wad getting in bidding wars for UFAs....and the teams that didn't probably aren't going after RFAs. There isn't going to be a huge RFA sniping as some people are suggesting...maybe one or two teams

TehDoak is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:19 PM
  #5
Buffaloed
Administrator
Webmaster
 
Buffaloed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 24,950
vCash: 1664
The Sabres only have enough comp picks to make an offer sheet for one player like that. The 4 first rounders have to be provided within the next 5 seasons. I'd prefer Spezza, but either one would be great. The devious way to do this is to sign one to an offer sheet that Ottawa can match and put them into more cap trouble. Then go after the 2nd player, and they won't be able to match it within the cap. Ottawa would be forced to take the picks or do a trade a la Gratton when Philly signed him from TB. It should also be kept in mind that this would keep the Sabres out of the RFA market for the next 3 seasons as they wouldn't have the required comp picks. Muckler would probably call John Tortorella up and have him come to Buffalo to slap Regier around.

Buffaloed is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:21 PM
  #6
signalIInoise
killed by signal 2
 
signalIInoise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Latveria
Country: Denmark
Posts: 5,727
vCash: 500
I really don't think that Spezza is going to turn out to be all that special. I'd rather go after Bergeron from Boston. From Ottawa, Redden would be most tempting to me -- followed by Vermette, Schaefer and Alfredsson.

signalIInoise is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:25 PM
  #7
JOHNBOY
BUFFALO SABRES
 
JOHNBOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denver NC
Country: United States
Posts: 10,151
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JOHNBOY
Quote:
Originally Posted by signaliinoise
I really don't think that Spezza is going to turn out to be all that special. I'd rather go after Bergeron from Boston. From Ottawa, Redden would be most tempting to me -- followed by Vermette, Schaefer and Alfredsson.
Chara?!?!?!?!?!?

JOHNBOY is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:27 PM
  #8
signalIInoise
killed by signal 2
 
signalIInoise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Latveria
Country: Denmark
Posts: 5,727
vCash: 500
Okay, yes -- Chara would be great. But I believe in signing offer sheets only for people we have a prayer of getting.

signalIInoise is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:33 PM
  #9
JOHNBOY
BUFFALO SABRES
 
JOHNBOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denver NC
Country: United States
Posts: 10,151
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JOHNBOY
Quote:
Originally Posted by signaliinoise
Okay, yes -- Chara would be great. But I believe in signing offer sheets only for people we have a prayer of getting.
Yeah I have to agree with you on that one... If Regier brought in Chara though I probably would fall in love with him and end up stalking and attempting to make love with Regier...

JOHNBOY is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:45 PM
  #10
signalIInoise
killed by signal 2
 
signalIInoise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Latveria
Country: Denmark
Posts: 5,727
vCash: 500
I think it's far more likely that Darcy will die virginal and unloved than we pry Chara from Ottawa.

signalIInoise is offline  
Old
08-09-2005, 09:53 PM
  #11
JOHNBOY
BUFFALO SABRES
 
JOHNBOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denver NC
Country: United States
Posts: 10,151
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JOHNBOY
Quote:
Originally Posted by signaliinoise
I think it's far more likely that Darcy will die virginal and unloved than we pry Chara from Ottawa.
Well it doesnt hurt to dream now does it.

JOHNBOY is offline  
Old
08-10-2005, 12:12 AM
  #12
lecherous
Registered User
 
lecherous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,186
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to lecherous
I'd rather trade Drury + something for either Havlat or Rent-a-Redden. If you're going to play the RFA game, it seems alot more of an advantage to snipe lower paid role type players that you'd have to give up a 2nd rounder or less for.

lecherous is offline  
Old
08-10-2005, 07:27 AM
  #13
signalIInoise
killed by signal 2
 
signalIInoise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Latveria
Country: Denmark
Posts: 5,727
vCash: 500
Whoa! According to Spector, Hossa is looking for 'Iginla money'

No way in a million years is he worth that.

signalIInoise is offline  
Old
08-10-2005, 07:52 AM
  #14
Original6
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 916
vCash: 500
Spezza sucks. The last two post seasons he didn't show up and the last one he was sent down to the AHL during the playoffs. Sure he was the best player in the AHL after having expierance in the NHL and beating a bunch of rookies and potential 3rd liners.

Original6 is offline  
Old
08-10-2005, 08:22 AM
  #15
signalIInoise
killed by signal 2
 
signalIInoise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Latveria
Country: Denmark
Posts: 5,727
vCash: 500
I don't think he sucks -- I just don't think he's as good as his hype would suggest. I don't think he's big or physical enough to be the answer to the problems of either Ottawa or Buffalo. I remember him doing reasonably well in his inaugural post-season.

signalIInoise is offline  
Old
08-10-2005, 10:46 AM
  #16
Rowley Birkin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Country: England
Posts: 3,125
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by signaliinoise
Whoa! According to Spector, Hossa is looking for 'Iginla money'

No way in a million years is he worth that.
I'd say he is. I would pay him something in the $6m/year range, easily. He is an awesome player.

I think Spezza is over rated too, sure i would take him in a Sabres jersey, but i wouldn't pay him megabucks, and i wouldn't give up the farm to get him. I would do both for Hossa.

Seriously tho, we have no chance of getting guys like this. If the Sens are moving anyone, i see them moving Redden and/or Havlat. They will be able to keep the rest of their core easily. Hossa, Chara, Spezza, are all staying in Ottawa, surely. I've suggested it before, but a deal centering around Drury and Redden really would work for both teams imo. I must admit, although i'm strictly a one team guy, i do follow the Sens, and root for them once we've missed the playoffs. I think Drury would be a great fit there. And obviously, Redden would be a good addition in Buffalo. And I think if Marty moved there, he'd do ok in new scenery, playing behind a very strong team. Their only weakness is in net, but its a huge one for them. A shame really.

Rowley Birkin is offline  
Old
08-10-2005, 11:17 AM
  #17
signalIInoise
killed by signal 2
 
signalIInoise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Latveria
Country: Denmark
Posts: 5,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin
I'd say he is. I would pay him something in the $6m/year range, easily. He is an awesome player.

I think Spezza is over rated too, sure i would take him in a Sabres jersey, but i wouldn't pay him megabucks, and i wouldn't give up the farm to get him. I would do both for Hossa.
The Sens are my 2nd favorite team, and I've seen more than my share of Hossa -- thing is, he's vastly overrated. I'd put him in a league with Samsonov or Hejduk -- but in no way is he comparable to Iginla or Thornton. Those are outstanding players I lump him in with, but I think he, like Hejduk and Samsonov, is shy of the elite status of an Iggy or Joe.

He's a great skater and a hell of a scorer, but he's soft for his size, and does nothing to make the players around him better, IMO. He's pretty much Pyatt with Satan's scoring touch. Alfredsson is a much better player, IMO.

signalIInoise is offline  
Old
08-10-2005, 12:02 PM
  #18
NyQuil
Setec Astronomy
 
NyQuil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NyLand
Country: Canada
Posts: 44,597
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Original6
Spezza sucks. The last two post seasons he didn't show up and the last one he was sent down to the AHL during the playoffs. Sure he was the best player in the AHL after having expierance in the NHL and beating a bunch of rookies and potential 3rd liners.
You really don't know what you are talking about.

Two seasons ago, Spezza was brought in during the "near comeback" when Ottawa was down 3-1 to the Devils in the Eastern Conference final. It was his first NHL post-season game and he notched two points, a goal and assist, and singlehandedly helped turn around the series, allowing the Sens to win the next two and bring it to game 7.

Last season, he wasn't sent down to the AHL during the playoffs, Martin simply didn't dress him for the first few games, despite notching 22 goals and 33 assists for 55 points in 78 games, playing on the 3rd line and the 2nd powerplay unit, and earning himself a +22. It was one of the contentious issues which Ottawa fans complained about with respect to Martin.

Why play a guy an entire season (he missed 4 games due to injury), and then sit him, as a 22 goal scorer?

And I'm not sure how many other players could score 117 points in a 80 game AHL season. Vanek, Wellwood, Kobasew, Staal and others certainly didn't.

At 6'2, 210, he's not the smallest guy out there either.

Nice try though, sport.

NyQuil is offline  
Old
08-10-2005, 01:56 PM
  #19
lecherous
Registered User
 
lecherous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,186
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to lecherous
Quote:
And I'm not sure how many other players could score 117 points in a 80 game AHL season. Vanek, Wellwood, Kobasew, Staal and others certainly didn't.
Well, first off - Spezza was 22 and already has two full NHL seasons under his belt. Vanek was 20 and fresh out of college hockey - must I remind you that Spezza scored about 50 pts in his rookie stint in the AHL? Also, Spezza is a playmaker and Vanek is a goalscorer - it's a bit easier to rack up enormous amounts of assists vs. enormous amounts of goals.

While I wouldn't go as far to say that Spezza sucks, he's about the 6th guy I'd want from OTT behind Redden, Hossa, Chara, Havlat, and Alfreddson.

lecherous is offline  
Old
08-10-2005, 02:18 PM
  #20
Roy G Biv*
 
Roy G Biv*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,912
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lecherous
Well, first off - Spezza was 22 and already has two full NHL seasons under his belt. Vanek was 20 and fresh out of college hockey - must I remind you that Spezza scored about 50 pts in his rookie stint in the AHL? Also, Spezza is a playmaker and Vanek is a goalscorer - it's a bit easier to rack up enormous amounts of assists vs. enormous amounts of goals.

While I wouldn't go as far to say that Spezza sucks, he's about the 6th guy I'd want from OTT behind Redden, Hossa, Chara, Havlat, and Alfreddson.
1st year in AHL (spezza missed games due to being in the NHL)

Jason Spezza GP 43 G 22 A 32 PTS 54
Tomas Vanek GP 74 G 42 A 26 PTS 68

Goals/game: Spezza = 0.51, Vanek = 0.57
PTS/game: Spezza = 1.26, Vanek = 0.92

Thanks for coming out.

Roy G Biv* is offline  
Old
08-10-2005, 02:18 PM
  #21
DaveMatthew
Registered User
 
DaveMatthew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 6,650
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lecherous
Well, first off - Spezza was 22 and already has two full NHL seasons under his belt. Vanek was 20 and fresh out of college hockey - must I remind you that Spezza scored about 50 pts in his rookie stint in the AHL? Also, Spezza is a playmaker and Vanek is a goalscorer - it's a bit easier to rack up enormous amounts of assists vs. enormous amounts of goals.

While I wouldn't go as far to say that Spezza sucks, he's about the 6th guy I'd want from OTT behind Redden, Hossa, Chara, Havlat, and Alfreddson.
In his first stint with Binghampton, Spezza had 54 points in 43 games. Thats about 1.3 pts per game. Pretty dominant.

DaveMatthew is offline  
Old
08-10-2005, 02:27 PM
  #22
signalIInoise
killed by signal 2
 
signalIInoise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Latveria
Country: Denmark
Posts: 5,727
vCash: 500
Vanek and Spezza are apples and oranges.

Spezza is a playmaking center who shies away from physical confrontation -- that's closer to Zagrapan than Vanek, though conflicting reports about Zagrapan indicate that it might be too soon to project that he'll be as non-physical as Spezza. Spezza has a considerable edge right now, in that his development is worlds beyond Zagrapans currently, but I'm willing to be patient with Zagrapan.

Vanek is closer to Hossa or Havlat. He's a sniper and finisher who can make plays. He might prove to be a step above H/H, because he seems to be much more physical, but has a similar set of tools. Obviously, today Hossa and Havlat are much more developed at present, but in 3 years we'll have a fairer comparison.

To be fair, Ottawa is in the catbirds seat: Every team in the league is a little envious of their forwards to one degree or another. Not to mention their very deep defense. If they had a left side and a warm body in goal, they'd be unstoppable.

signalIInoise is offline  
Old
08-10-2005, 02:32 PM
  #23
signalIInoise
killed by signal 2
 
signalIInoise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Latveria
Country: Denmark
Posts: 5,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamboner
1st year in AHL (spezza missed games due to being in the NHL)

Jason Spezza GP 43 G 22 A 32 PTS 54
Tomas Vanek GP 74 G 42 A 26 PTS 68

Goals/game: Spezza = 0.51, Vanek = 0.57
PTS/game: Spezza = 1.26, Vanek = 0.92

Thanks for coming out.
And if the NHL was a sim league, there'd be no argument at least as far as I'm concerned. I don't think anyone here is crapping on Spezza's production -- but the role that he plays makes him less attractive to the Sabres if the Sabres were looking to poach a Senator. We'd much rather have just about anyone from your D

signalIInoise is offline  
Old
08-10-2005, 03:55 PM
  #24
MLH
Registered User
 
MLH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,292
vCash: 500
I can't believe the amount of people that "don't like Spezza" or think "he's overrated". what more can you ask of him? He's dominated the AHL and been productive in the NHL with limited time.

MLH is offline  
Old
08-10-2005, 04:06 PM
  #25
signalIInoise
killed by signal 2
 
signalIInoise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Latveria
Country: Denmark
Posts: 5,727
vCash: 500
The way he's spoken of, of course he's overrated. He hasn't proven himself to be a legitimate first line center yet. There are knocks on his physical game, his work ethic, his play away from the puck -- and until they are answered, he's not the elite center that he seems to be spoken of.

Overrated does not necessarily equate to 'sucks'. In this case, IMO, it certainly doesn't.

signalIInoise is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:16 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.