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Ryan Clowe was THIS close to being a Hab

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Old
02-19-2014, 06:48 PM
  #51
Kobe Armstrong
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
He's actually mistaken. Briere is 8th among forwards in goals while being 9th among forwards in icetime/game.
Oh, so I was wrong. I'm not sure if the games he was a healthy scratch are accounted for, but yeah, I'd rather have neither.

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Old
02-19-2014, 07:11 PM
  #52
SouthernHab
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
In Clowe's last 67 games he has 6 goals and 4 concussions. (suffered 3 last year and 1 this year)

In Briere's last 80 games, he has 15 goals and 2 concussions (1 last year, 1 this year)

People freak out at Briere because he isn't scoring...
The better assessment is looking at what they are doing THIS YEAR since last season is over and irrelevant.

Clowe has 13 points in 27 games this season.

That PPG average is better than Eller, Briere, Bournival, Bourque, Prust and Moen.

And the biggest issue on this team is scoring. Sad when a "washed up Clowe" is scoring points at a rate higher than the list above.

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Old
02-19-2014, 07:15 PM
  #53
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Except for DD's contract right?
i would hardly call that contract long term, or expensive for that matter.

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Old
02-19-2014, 07:36 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
You are not part of A PLAN when you sign for 1 or 2 years.....If so, it's a band-aid plan...nothing more.
Exactly. It's not very tempting for the player. It's like "do they want me or not?"

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Old
02-20-2014, 08:05 AM
  #55
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Jagr WANTED to come here, pretty bad too...

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Old
02-20-2014, 08:17 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I really think that's a band-aid plan though. Sign a vet, that you don't know how he'll do because you don't have rookies that can do the job and see from there and hope for the best. Just that for me, to have a biggest chance to be relevant, is that with the guys we have right now, you either sell or buy. But not obscure 1-commtion away guy....you go for the throat and be relevant. Or sell, have at the most 1 or 2 tough years, pick up some great prospects that could be up in 2 years and make us a contender.

My problem with that team is that it's the constant averageness of it.
But if you have holes in your lineup what else can you do? Only other option is to bring up developing players like Leblanc, Andrighetto, Thomas, etc up to fill roles they either don't deserve or aren't ready for. That would make the team worse (which I guess to some is a good thing) and hurt the development of young players.

I understand the feeling that we're consistently average but others would characterize this as consistent competitiveness. Clearly, we're a few years away from contender status, which will only happen once we've allowed our young players to develop further and fill the holes that we have. Until then, that's what vet free agents on 1-2 term deals are for, with the added benefit being that they could actually help the team now and later if it works out.

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Old
02-20-2014, 08:21 AM
  #57
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i would hardly call that contract long term, or expensive for that matter.
That's what I find comical for those complaining about Desharnais' deal...4 years at 3.5 mil for a guy who plays on the top 2 lines and puts up an average of around 50 points a year. On the UFA market those guys easily get 4.5-5 mil. He would have gotten 4 mil at least in arbitration last summer, then been a UFA this coming summer, THAT's why that extension makes sense.

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Old
02-20-2014, 08:23 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
The better assessment is looking at what they are doing THIS YEAR since last season is over and irrelevant.

Clowe has 13 points in 27 games this season.

That PPG average is better than Eller, Briere, Bournival, Bourque, Prust and Moen.

And the biggest issue on this team is scoring. Sad when a "washed up Clowe" is scoring points at a rate higher than the list above.
The issue with Clowe is the cap hit(nearly 5 mil), the term(5 years) PLUS the fact that he has multiple concussions the last few years.

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02-20-2014, 10:10 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
The better assessment is looking at what they are doing THIS YEAR since last season is over and irrelevant.

Clowe has 13 points in 27 games this season.

That PPG average is better than Eller, Briere, Bournival, Bourque, Prust and Moen.

And the biggest issue on this team is scoring. Sad when a "washed up Clowe" is scoring points at a rate higher than the list above.
Points-per-game means nothing if you can't stay on the ice. How many games has Clowe missed already this season? 30 some-odd? Sure, that ppg is okay (not great) but it means nothing if you're constantly having to replace him with somebody else because he's in the hospital all the time AND eating up cap and roster space.

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Old
02-20-2014, 10:33 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Kobe Armstrong View Post
Therrien isn't responsible for the players not scoring, he's responsible for the style of game that we play, but he's not responsible for personal struggles.
Bad defenseman usage = no transition = no puck possession = no offense.

Dump-and-chase system = no puck possession = no offense.

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Old
02-20-2014, 10:40 AM
  #61
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Bad defenseman usage = no transition = no puck possession = no offense.

Dump-and-chase system = no puck possession = no offense.
First of all a "dump and chase" is a tactic not a system. Every NHL team uses it...all of them. Some use it more than most depending on the skill level of forwards.

How do they have "bad defenseman usage"? Who do you want playing 22-23 minutes instead of Markov and Subban? Bouillon? Murray?

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Old
02-20-2014, 10:43 AM
  #62
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Not really interested in Clowe. Big gritty powerforward who relies on his size and strength to score goals. You need to draft and develop that type of player, not sign him after he's suffered multiple concussions. Good on MB on passing on him.

As for Briere, it was pretty obvious he was in the midst of a steep decline. However, if used properly (i.e. under 12 minutes per game, some PP minutes and easy ES minutes), he can be effective. He's scored some clutch goals for us and we all know how good he is in the playoffs. At this point, we might as well keep him around and pray he can maintain his PPG playoff performance.

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Old
02-20-2014, 11:29 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Smoky Thompson View Post
Not really interested in Clowe. Big gritty powerforward who relies on his size and strength to score goals. You need to draft and develop that type of player, not sign him after he's suffered multiple concussions. Good on MB on passing on him.

As for Briere, it was pretty obvious he was in the midst of a steep decline. However, if used properly (i.e. under 12 minutes per game, some PP minutes and easy ES minutes), he can be effective. He's scored some clutch goals for us and we all know how good he is in the playoffs. At this point, we might as well keep him around and pray he can maintain his PPG playoff performance.
Briere has shown he can still score, for his ice time his production is good...just not really a great fit on the Habs given the rest of the roster.

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Old
02-20-2014, 11:31 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Briere has shown he can still score, for his ice time his production is good...just not really a great fit on the Habs given the rest of the roster.
Briere has shown he is useless, that's about it.

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Old
02-20-2014, 12:50 PM
  #65
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Briere has shown he is useless, that's about it.
Obviously you haven't been watching Habs games this year...

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Old
02-20-2014, 12:55 PM
  #66
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But if you have holes in your lineup what else can you do? Only other option is to bring up developing players like Leblanc, Andrighetto, Thomas, etc up to fill roles they either don't deserve or aren't ready for. That would make the team worse (which I guess to some is a good thing) and hurt the development of young players.

I understand the feeling that we're consistently average but others would characterize this as consistent competitiveness. Clearly, we're a few years away from contender status, which will only happen once we've allowed our young players to develop further and fill the holes that we have. Until then, that's what vet free agents on 1-2 term deals are for, with the added benefit being that they could actually help the team now and later if it works out.
And one of the way to develop your Young players is to make them play in the NHL. So that he'll either develop, or you'll either know that there's nothing to do with him. Instead of just abandoning him on waivers without really having seen what he could or couldn't do. We have key players in all positions. We need to take the window as it's presented to us. Real soon, we will have to go all in.....or choose the "right" draft to rebuild and get up quickly so we could still benefit from the key players we have. We should have done it before......but time to look ahead. Question is....do we have the right guy to bring us at the other level. Remains to be seen.....

And 1 old vet for 1 old vet, again, it makes no sense to have gone with Brière instead of Jagr. No sense at all. That was a bad decision. So it's one thing to fill a void...but you have to fill it nicely.

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Old
02-20-2014, 12:56 PM
  #67
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Montreal was prepared to offer up two or three years for the 31-year-old player, and Clowe was all ears. Until the call came from Lou Lamoriello. The Devils’ general manager, one of the craftiest in all of hockey...
This part made me laugh. Yeah, offering a free agent even more money and more years than your competition is offering him, how "crafty".

I'm glad, at the very least, that Bergevin has identified guys like Clowe as a need, even if he's not the player he used to be. I'm also glad that he didn't try to top that offer from the Devils.

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Old
02-20-2014, 01:34 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
That's what I find comical for those complaining about Desharnais' deal...4 years at 3.5 mil for a guy who plays on the top 2 lines and puts up an average of around 50 points a year. On the UFA market those guys easily get 4.5-5 mil. He would have gotten 4 mil at least in arbitration last summer, then been a UFA this coming summer, THAT's why that extension makes sense.
Man ... not another love-fest for DD. He's not a top 6 player on most NHL teams. Can we end the illusion once and for all. He's not as good as his last 20 games and he's not as bad as his first 20. He's a third liner forced into top line duty by an organization short of quality players.

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Old
02-20-2014, 01:43 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Smoky Thompson View Post
Not really interested in Clowe. Big gritty powerforward who relies on his size and strength to score goals. You need to draft and develop that type of player, not sign him after he's suffered multiple concussions. Good on MB on passing on him.
Well put. You don't reach for these types of players in a draft, except where their size, is accompanied by a modicum of talent and work ethic.

Quote:
As for Briere, it was pretty obvious he was in the midst of a steep decline. However, if used properly (i.e. under 12 minutes per game, some PP minutes and easy ES minutes), he can be effective. He's scored some clutch goals for us and we all know how good he is in the playoffs. At this point, we might as well keep him around and pray he can maintain his PPG playoff performance.
Perhaps the Habs underestimated or simply downplayed his health record and particularly, his concussion issues? You still see flashes of his stickhandling, deft puck movement, quick release ... but at the same time, there is an element of frailty. I can't define it but you get a sense that he's one major hit away from getting put away. I hope not. He's too much of a liability to hold on to, would much rather they move him, for whatever they can get.

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