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California to be divided into 6 different states?

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Old
02-20-2014, 08:36 PM
  #1
Colt45Blast
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California to be divided into 6 different states?

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...s-green-light/

Quote:
A venture capitalist who feels colossal California is too unwieldy to govern is proposing to split it into six separate states, and Secretary of State Debra Bowen has given him the green light to start collecting petition signatures.

Tim Draper filed a ballot initiative in December stating that because of recent social and economic changes California has become “nearly ungovernable.”

He proposed dividing California into six states. San Diego and Orange County would make up “South California.” “West California” would include Los Angeles and Santa Barbara, while Bakersfield, Fresno and Stockton would make up the larger “Central California.” San Francisco and San Jose would be in the new “Silicon Valley.” “North California” would include the Sacramento area, and “Jefferson” would be home to the Redding and Eureka areas.

“California as it is is ungovernable,” Draper told ABC News today. “It is more and more difficult for Sacramento to keep up with the social issues from the various regions of California. With six Californias, people will be closer to their state governments, and states can get a refresh”.

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02-20-2014, 08:39 PM
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Big McLargehuge
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Nope.

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02-20-2014, 08:40 PM
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PredsV82
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yeah Im sure the rest of the country is going to say "m'kay" to 12 senators from Cali…. what a nimrod

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02-20-2014, 08:48 PM
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Big McLargehuge
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
yeah Im sure the rest of the country is going to say "m'kay" to 12 senators from Cali…. what a nimrod
Hey now, he gerrymandered the hell out of that to get 4 deep red states and throwing the majority of the population into only 2 deep blue states. Orange County gets paired with San Diego instead of Los Angeles? Okay, sure buddy.

Previous versions of this have included 2 (Northern & Southern) or 3 (Northern, Southern, & Jefferson)...I think splitting the state in two is unlikely, but it is in the realm of possibility. Anything more than that is just stupid, especially Jefferson, which covers a stretch of land (into Oregon) with a significantly smaller population of Wyoming...not gonna happen.

edit: He was also kind enough to completely cut LA & the Bay Area off from their primary water sources.


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02-20-2014, 09:27 PM
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Question from a non-American:

Who needs to approve a state splitting in two?

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02-20-2014, 09:36 PM
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Ilkka Sinisalo
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Yeah because this problem is really unique to California, I mean places like Illinois, Texas, New York, Pennsylvania etc don't have densely populated urban areas and remote farming and wooded communities.

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02-20-2014, 09:37 PM
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Big McLargehuge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
Question from a non-American:

Who needs to approve a state splitting in two?
Well it's not easy...as evidenced by the fact that it hasn't happened since the Civil War.

The biggest steps are that it would have to be approved by California voters and then it would have to gain approval from Congress. There's no chance in hell that this would win a popular vote.

These things are common threats from the political minority and they never are taken too seriously. Long Island is never going to be it's own state, nor is Jefferson, nor is Northern Colorado, nor South Florida, nor Aroostook or Absaroka. The fact that this guy is not just trying to split up a state, but split it into six states with arbitrary borders? It's a fun story to read and think about, but he won't get anywhere near the signatures he needs to even put this up for ballot.


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02-20-2014, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Well it's not easy...as evidenced by the fact that it hasn't happened since the Civil War.

The biggest steps are that it would have to be approved by California voters and then it would have to gain approval from Congress. There's no chance in hell that this would win a popular vote.
So, if the Republicans controlled the House and the Senate, all it would take is one of those crazy California ballot propositions to get this proposal through? Out of curiosity what makes you think this is such a non starter among Californians?

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02-20-2014, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
So, if the Republicans controlled the House and the Senate, all it would take is one of those crazy California ballot propositions to get this proposal through? Out of curiosity what makes you think this is such a non starter among Californians?
If it was that easy, it'd have happened at least once since the Civil War. As Ilkka said, it's not like this is a unique 'problem' for California. Almost every state has had this issue come up in the past. Hell, I was born in Pennsylvania where there's the long standing joke of it really being three states - Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Pennsyltucky...but I've never met a Pennsylvanian that actually wants a split.

There's little upside to doing so, and people are naturally against change for the sake of change. West Virginia is really the only state to have such a split, and the reasoning for doing so was quite dire (see: Civil War). The only way such a thing is going to get passed is if it's of mutual benefit to everyone involved, and these things are never mutually beneficial. West Virginia was a unique case as it effectively seceded from a state that had seceded.

This is no less than the fifth time since 2000 that someone has formally proposed splitting California...most of which are just laughed at.

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02-20-2014, 10:56 PM
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Never going to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
Question from a non-American:

Who needs to approve a state splitting in two?
United States Congress and the state in question (maybe just the state legislature, possibly a popular vote, too) would both have to agree to it. Neither can do it unilaterally.

Although, as a caveat, Texas may have the power to split up into as many as five states without federal approval as per the annexation agreement that was made that brought the former republic into the union. I say "may," because I'm not entirely sure if that got nullified by the Civil War and its aftermath.

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02-20-2014, 11:09 PM
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KEEROLE Vatanen
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i'm all for losing any association with bakersfield, fresno, and stockton. west cali baby!

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02-21-2014, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Never going to happen.



United States Congress and the state in question (maybe just the state legislature, possibly a popular vote, too) would both have to agree to it. Neither can do it unilaterally.

Although, as a caveat, Texas may have the power to split up into as many as five states without federal approval as per the annexation agreement that was made that brought the former republic into the union. I say "may," because I'm not entirely sure if that got nullified by the Civil War and its aftermath.
I'm pretty sure that's all myth.

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02-21-2014, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by KEEROLE Vatanen View Post
i'm all for losing any association with bakersfield, fresno, and stockton. west cali baby!
Is it wrong that I only know those as ECHL markets?

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02-21-2014, 12:38 PM
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Is it wrong that I only know those as ECHL markets?
Nope. The ECHL teams are about the most exciting things about those ****holes.

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02-21-2014, 02:46 PM
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California 1/California 2/California 3/California 4/California 5/California 6?

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02-21-2014, 02:50 PM
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Troy McClure
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South Oregon
North California
San Francisco
Central California
Los Angeles
Newest Mexico

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02-21-2014, 02:53 PM
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Leafsdude7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
South Oregon
North California
San Francisco
Central California
Los Angeles
Newest Mexico
More like:

Socialist Oregon
Nazi California
Hates Straights Francisco
Bankrupt California
Los Illegals

/AP

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02-21-2014, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsdude7 View Post
More like:

Socialist Oregon
Nazi California
Hates Straights Francisco
Bankrupt California
Los Illegals

/AP


Sadly AP hasn't been even close to that creative lately. Needs to get his head back in the trolling game.

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02-21-2014, 03:44 PM
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txomisc
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6 definitely seems like overkill to me but 2 or 3 could work.

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02-22-2014, 06:29 AM
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Shrimper
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Splitting California into six states doesn't make sense. What will the economy be of the smaller Californias? Isn't the economy of the state not the best - something someone was telling me.

Are there any states that even need dividing?

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02-22-2014, 06:39 AM
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PredsV82
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Splitting California into six states doesn't make sense. What will the economy be of the smaller Californias? Isn't the economy of the state not the best - something someone was telling me.

Are there any states that even need dividing?
It will never happen because of the Senate. Low population states only have legislative power because they are equally represented in the Senate. If you split up the big states that effect gets diluted, and the small states would never stand for it.

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02-22-2014, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
It will never happen because of the Senate. Low population states only have legislative power because they are equally represented in the Senate. If you split up the big states that effect gets diluted, and the small states would never stand for it.
You're completely right. I think it's completely ridiculous that states like Wyoming and Idaho get 2 senators though.

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02-22-2014, 09:39 AM
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PredsV82
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You're completely right. I think it's completely ridiculous that states like Wyoming and Idaho get 2 senators though.
no its not. the framers knew that if every bit of legislative power was determined by population, the small states would forever be at the mercy of the large states. The constitution goes to great lengths to preserve the rights and powers of the several states

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02-22-2014, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
no its not. the framers knew that if every bit of legislative power was determined by population, the small states would forever be at the mercy of the large states. The constitution goes to great lengths to preserve the rights and powers of the several states
When the framers set it up that way the populations were a lot closer. I don't think they predicted a gap like California and Wyoming.

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02-22-2014, 11:42 AM
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PredsV82
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When the framers set it up that way the populations were a lot closer. I don't think they predicted a gap like California and Wyoming.
it doesn't matter. the principle they wanted was there would be one branch of the legislature where every state had an equal say. anything else and we might as well just have one house.

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