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Justin Schultz's extension

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Old
03-17-2014, 01:18 AM
  #126
Petes2424
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
I think fans forget though that in Gilbert's last season here, he actually looked quite decent defensively before he was dealt for Nick "Awful" Schultz.

My problem with Justin Schultz is he's a 3rd pairing PP specialist right now with room for more, yet is playing top 2 minutes, which is a joke.

The guy definitely doesn't deserve anything over 2.5M. He just doesn't. I don't see how you can justify that he's better than Subban or Del Zotto at the time of their bridge deals. The potential is there for more, but we should pay him based on what we've seen. I wonder if Buffalo really believes Tyler Myers, for example, is worth 5.5M a season.
Like I've said, people are going to be floored at what he actually gets. Even comparing him to MDZ or Subban's bridge is mind boggling. We have to look at real comparisons and those are much closer to the Jake Gardiners of the league.

Dekeyser and Krug are going to be the measuring stick. He'll get a bit less unless management caves. Whoever signs first is going to set the market. If Schultz signs first, the other two will use his deal to increase their number.

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03-17-2014, 03:45 AM
  #127
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Yes, seriously... These young guys have a serious case of "I'm paid" going on right now, and as such, the effort level has dropped off. Hall too - sure he has points, but his game hasn't improved either.... Too much guaranteed cash too early for all these guys is the big problem... Overall team suckage as you put it is also a big factor, but these young guys have to shoulder the load and step up. They haven't. Why should they now?
first off, to say halls game hasn't improved is completley ridiculous, he's THE driving force on whatever line the marathon man deciedes to throw him on. Hall is truely an elite winger in the game right now.

secondly, you ask why should they step up now? probably because they want to win. no player, unless your name is daigle or stefan, makes it to the NHL and says "i made it, I'm done i"ll just play on last place team for the rest of my career and make mad money". These guys want to win, making the NHL is not the ultimate goal, winning the stanley cup is. i absolutely despise the "they're getting their millions, so whys should they try now" argument, it's an argument that smacks of jealousy from fans that don't understand the commitment, drive and will to be the best it takes just to make it to the NHL.

sorry for going so off topic.

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03-17-2014, 12:28 PM
  #128
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Depending on who they draft, I'd almost rather package him and Gagner for real help at F or on the blue.

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03-17-2014, 04:09 PM
  #129
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I think a bridge contract would be a mistake. I don't get why people bring up Subbans bridge as a case in point why it's a good idea. Had they signed him on a longer deal right off the bat they'd have him locked up for much less than what sounds like north of 7M, some rumors are saing 8-9M which I think is a bit rich but the point is had they been prepared to gamble slightly, which to me at the time made sense from what he'd shown, they would've made a better deal. Now they got him on the cheap for two years when they weren't contenders in the slightest and will have to pay big money for him going forward which will make it harder for them to create a competitive roster gonig forward.

If you're looking to become an annual contender you have to take chances and sign up players before they have their big breakout, obviously that is if you believe they'll become good enough players to warrant that paycheck. I've been ragging on Ebs for not earning his contract this year but at the same time I don't mind them locking him up for a long time because of what his capacity as a high octane offensive player is. Same goes for RNH. Hall already is starting to earn his paycheck.
With the cap going up and them still being young and able to improve those deals might all be steals.

For me with Schultz slowly improving defensive game and flashes of top quality offense I'd be willing to take a chance on him to warrant a long contract at a little more than his worth is right now. Between around 3.5-4 for 4-6 seasons might be doable and I'd be fine with it and even a bit more. As stated a bit of a gamble but if it turns out could make for a great deal. Offensive d-men after they've broken out cost a lot of money.

I mean either you go for it or you wait and risk them having career years and you overpaying.

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Old
03-17-2014, 08:21 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Wait, why would we pay him anything over 3M per season?

Subban bridge cap hit: 2.875
Del Zotto bridge cap hit: 2.55

and both have stats that rival or definitely increase on Schultz.
That was with a lesser cap though. How does that equate to the higher cap we are expecting?

I'm not comparing Schultz to Subban, but thats not an apples to apples comparison

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03-17-2014, 08:23 PM
  #131
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03-17-2014, 09:45 PM
  #132
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I think a bridge contract would be a mistake. I don't get why people bring up Subbans bridge as a case in point why it's a good idea. Had they signed him on a longer deal right off the bat they'd have him locked up for much less than what sounds like north of 7M, some rumors are saing 8-9M which I think is a bit rich but the point is had they been prepared to gamble slightly, ....
It all boils down to opinion. I laughed at the Subban bridge contract because I had a lot of faith in him to improve. A longer deal was the right gamble. Even without the benefit of hindsight it was obvious.

So the question is, how much faith do fans have in Schultz? If you don't have faith in him to improve and develop, then you want a bridge deal. If you feel he is trending upwards, then you want a long deal.

I have a high opinion of Schultz. I prefer a long deal. Many have compared him to Gilbert in this thread but I see him more like a Vishnovsky.

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Old
03-18-2014, 02:26 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
I think fans forget though that in Gilbert's last season here, he actually looked quite decent defensively before he was dealt for Nick "Awful" Schultz.

My problem with Justin Schultz is he's a 3rd pairing PP specialist right now with room for more, yet is playing top 2 minutes, which is a joke.

The guy definitely doesn't deserve anything over 2.5M. He just doesn't. I don't see how you can justify that he's better than Subban or Del Zotto at the time of their bridge deals. The potential is there for more, but we should pay him based on what we've seen. I wonder if Buffalo really believes Tyler Myers, for example, is worth 5.5M a season.
Now here's a post that makes sense! I'd probably be willing to go up to 3, but any higher is just ridiculous given his lack of defense. He's scoring at a 36 point pace. That's simply not good enough for someone who brings nothing else. Give him a low dollar bridge deal, and hope he can fix his game (which he is finally starting to)

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Old
03-18-2014, 02:59 AM
  #134
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I think a good comparable bridge contract is what Nick Leddy got from Hawks

2 yrs / 2.7M AAV

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Old
03-26-2014, 11:45 AM
  #135
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Ryan Rishaug ‏@TSNRyanRishaug 1h
Have to think negotiations between Newport and Mactavish start soon on J. Schultz deal. Will be an interesting one. Long term or bridge?
IMO bridge: 2 years, 2.5M per
long-term: 5-7 years, 3.5-4.5 per

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03-26-2014, 12:19 PM
  #136
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4 years at $3.5M would be great, imo

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03-26-2014, 12:57 PM
  #137
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Im looking at a contract identical to justin faulk if im the oill just under 4.5-4.75 for 6

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03-26-2014, 02:38 PM
  #138
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Im looking at a contract identical to justin faulk if im the oill just under 4.5-4.75 for 6
Six years for a guy who hasn't proven capable of playing tough minutes? Yipes.

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03-26-2014, 02:47 PM
  #139
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I'd be looking at quite a bit less than Faulk.

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03-26-2014, 02:55 PM
  #140
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I'd be looking at quite a bit less than Faulk.
I would be floored if he gets anywhere near Faulk. We're talking two entirely different situations. I wouldnt however be shocked if they overpaid a bit. I'd still bet on him coming between $1.75 and $2 million.

He's pretty far behind those other guys when it comes to where he's at in his development.

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03-26-2014, 05:25 PM
  #141
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I would be floored if he gets anywhere near Faulk. We're talking two entirely different situations. I wouldnt however be shocked if they overpaid a bit. I'd still bet on him coming between $1.75 and $2 million.

He's pretty far behind those other guys when it comes to where he's at in his development.
Justin Faulk is not nearly as good offensively and in this league offense seems to bring the dollar bills. Justin shultz still has development but anyone that thinks we will get ufa years for less then 4.5 is dreaming.

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03-26-2014, 05:36 PM
  #142
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Schultz should get between $2M-$3M but nothing more on a bridge deal. He hasn't shown himself worthy of a long term deal yet for big dollars.

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03-26-2014, 06:20 PM
  #143
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Justin Faulk is not nearly as good offensively and in this league offense seems to bring the dollar bills. Justin shultz still has development but anyone that thinks we will get ufa years for less then 4.5 is dreaming.
Ya, some people are dreaming on here. You could get Shultz for 2.5-3 mill on his RFA years, but if you want him for 5-6 years, it is going to be 5 AAV at least.

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03-26-2014, 08:41 PM
  #144
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Welp. Bridge deal it is if that's the case.

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03-26-2014, 09:47 PM
  #145
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Welp. Bridge deal it is if that's the case.
Sure, then when he turns into a Dan Boyle you lose him to Free agency when the going rate is 8 mill.

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03-26-2014, 11:31 PM
  #146
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Sure, then when he turns into a Dan Boyle you lose him to Free agency when the going rate is 8 mill.
Yeah I'll be sure to shed some tears when that happens.

Good thing we already locked up our future Pavel Datysuk and Claude Giroux.

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03-27-2014, 12:21 AM
  #147
okgooil
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Yeah I'll be sure to shed some tears when that happens.

Good thing we already locked up our future Pavel Datysuk and Claude Giroux.
lol, captian bring down. I get the oilers suck now, but that doesn't mean a 21 and 20 year old aren't still going to be dam good.

Unless you mean Eberle for Giroux. I can't tell.

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03-27-2014, 12:30 AM
  #148
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Sure, then when he turns into a Dan Boyle you lose him to Free agency when the going rate is 8 mill.
This isn't like Subban where he was already a pretty good talent when Montreal decided "ahh we'll just bridge it" and now they'll face the consequences.

Michael Del Zotto is very similar to Schultz, is he worth 8M?

Most I want on Justin is 2.5M cap hit, 2 year deal, anything higher than 2.5M is ludicrous considering what he's done here.

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03-27-2014, 12:32 AM
  #149
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Katz just got 5 mil from league. That's 1 year.

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03-27-2014, 12:38 AM
  #150
okgooil
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This isn't like Subban where he was already a pretty good talent when Montreal decided "ahh we'll just bridge it" and now they'll face the consequences.

Michael Del Zotto is very similar to Schultz, is he worth 8M?

Most I want on Justin is 2.5M cap hit, 2 year deal, anything higher than 2.5M is ludicrous considering what he's done here.
well, MDZ of two years ago, he is in the dumps now. I actually still think he is a good D man..... any way. I didn't say Schultz was worth 8 mil, just saying, if we don't lock him up that could be the price we might have to pay in 2 years.

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