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Justin Schultz's extension

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Old
03-26-2014, 11:42 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
lol, captian bring down. I get the oilers suck now, but that doesn't mean a 21 and 20 year old aren't still going to be dam good.

Unless you mean Eberle for Giroux. I can't tell.
It's hard finding a comparable for Eberle!!!

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03-26-2014, 11:42 PM
  #152
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well, MDZ of two years ago, he is in the dumps now. I actually still think he is a good D man..... any way. I didn't say Schultz was worth 8 mil, just saying, if we don't lock him up that could be the price we might have to pay in 2 years.
Well I guess it depends on the view of Schultz.

If there is a believer that he could still be a top pairing D-man, then they won't mind spending big $$$.

I'm of the opinion that Schultz hasn't proved himself as anything more than a bottom pairing PP specialist so far and that maybe spending big bucks on him like he's a member of the core is a terrible idea. I think Marincin has been better than him this year.

It should be interesting to see what MacT believes is the right ballpark for Schultz. He nailed the Scrivens deal so I trust him for now.

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03-26-2014, 11:46 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Well I guess it depends on the view of Schultz.

If there is a believer that he could still be a top pairing D-man, then they won't mind spending big $$$.

I'm of the opinion that Schultz hasn't proved himself as anything more than a bottom pairing PP specialist so far and that maybe spending big bucks on him like he's a member of the core is a terrible idea. I think Marincin has been better than him this year.

It should be interesting to see what MacT believes is the right ballpark for Schultz. He nailed the Scrivens deal so I trust him for now.
ya, well Schultz is so on and off. At times he looks like a stud pp quarter back who could get 60 points and be decent on D. Next ye looks like a 35 point D man who is brutal on D. Still, It hink he has time to put the full package together. I think he rounds into a 50-60 point D man wiht ok D. A Yandle type player really. Given infkation, which alwasy happens, that type of player could be getting 8 mill in UFA.

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03-27-2014, 12:52 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
....

I'm of the opinion that Schultz hasn't proved himself as anything more than a bottom pairing PP specialist so far and that maybe spending big bucks on him like he's a member of the core is a terrible idea. I think Marincin has been better than him this year.

It should be interesting to see what MacT believes is the right ballpark for Schultz. He nailed the Scrivens deal so I trust him for now.
I don't get this opinion. Just look at all the stats. He gets power play time, but most of his points are 5 on 5. He is also clearly our #1 Dman based on ice time (even strength and PP).

Marincin has the benefit of Petry, who has been proven to make his partners better. Petry is in his prime, so he's the perfect guy to transition the young Marincin in the league.

Schultz is young too. At 23 he is already out-performing Dmen like Brian Campbell at a similar age (and yet so many say he will never be his equal, lol whatever). He has had troubles, but look at who he gets to play with. It's been a carosel of bottom pairing Dmen, and whoever gets the Schultz assignment ends up looking bad because Schultz has the hardest assignment on this team by far. He soaks up the most minutes because he has the best puck skills on the back end, and so the play goes through him as much as possible. Unlike Marincin or Petry, he's not allowed to focus on defense because he has to take risks to produce offense, which he does. At the same time, it means that he racks up some minuses, particularly when your partner is playing over his head and for much of the season the goalies couldn't hold up their end of the bargain.

Schultz needs a real partner. Hopefully it's either Marincin or Klefbom, or even Nurse. Ference, Fraser, and Larsen aren't cutting it.

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03-27-2014, 01:05 AM
  #155
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I don't get this opinion. Just look at all the stats. He gets power play time, but most of his points are 5 on 5. He is also clearly our #1 Dman based on ice time (even strength and PP).

Marincin has the benefit of Petry, who has been proven to make his partners better. Petry is in his prime, so he's the perfect guy to transition the young Marincin in the league.

Schultz is young too. At 23 he is already out-performing Dmen like Brian Campbell at a similar age (and yet so many say he will never be his equal, lol whatever). He has had troubles, but look at who he gets to play with. It's been a carosel of bottom pairing Dmen, and whoever gets the Schultz assignment ends up looking bad because Schultz has the hardest assignment on this team by far. He soaks up the most minutes because he has the best puck skills on the back end, and so the play goes through him as much as possible. Unlike Marincin or Petry, he's not allowed to focus on defense because he has to take risks to produce offense, which he does. At the same time, it means that he racks up some minuses, particularly when your partner is playing over his head and for much of the season the goalies couldn't hold up their end of the bargain.

Schultz needs a real partner. Hopefully it's either Marincin or Klefbom, or even Nurse. Ference, Fraser, and Larsen aren't cutting it.
Well what I mean by PP specialist, is offensive D-man, I'm just used to using that term for all offensive D-men. As for minutes played, I couldn't care less, because he's playing way too much and he clearly can't handle the ones he has now.

You do have a good point regarding Fraser being his partner, however Andrew Ference is an NHL D-man, maybe not at the expectation some fans had but he's an NHL defensive D-man so if Schultz can't play with him....there's room for concern. I'd really like to see how he performs with Marincin, because although it didn't work in their first game together, I think cutting Schultz's minutes next year and playing him with Marincin could be an incredibly awesome third pairing combo that would allow J Schultz to develop his D and focus on offense.

Corsi wise, he's at a crossroads in terms of comparables. At his age, he compares with Carlson, Marc Staal, Hamonic, Alzner, and Hjalmarsson, all who have pretty nice track records at the NHL level (although keep in mind, these guys are all heavy on the defensive side of the game).

He also compares with Myers, Ryan Wilson, Sbisa, Luke Schenn, McBain, Bogosian, Del Zotto, Jeff Schultz, Theo Peckham, and Jack Johnson. All who have major defensive deficiencies or question marks.

A good portion of those who performed much better at a Corsi level than Justin are stars on D in the league (Calgary has one developing right now with TJ Brodie) so with Justin, you can kind of see the potential and risk level with signing him to a big contract right now. There are many D-man who at Justin's age simply performed a lot better. Whether a new partner fixes that remains to be seen.

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03-27-2014, 10:17 AM
  #156
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Well Stauffer says "he really believes in Justin" and doesn't think we should do a bridge contract. Usually when he says something that's how the organization feels so we should all expect them to give him 6m a year.

Simpson came onto the radio yesterday and talked about how important it is for the Oilers to get Schultz on a bridge deal and Stauffer kept saying that he "believes in Justin Schultz" therefore we should just give him an entire truckload of money.

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03-27-2014, 10:21 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Well Stauffer says "he really believes in Justin" and doesn't think we should do a bridge contract. Usually when he says something that's how the organization feels so we should all expect them to give him 6m a year.

Simpson came onto the radio yesterday and talked about how important it is for the Oilers to get Schultz on a bridge deal and Stauffer kept saying that he "believes in Justin Schultz" therefore we should just give him an entire truckload of money.
Either that, or they believe in the player and want to lock him up long-ish term, so maybe 4 or 5 years instead of 1 or 2.

I don't suspect that Mac-T is an idiot letting players write blank cheques, the Scrivens deal leads me to believe that.

If they "believe in" Schultz, then maybe something like 5 years @ $4.5-5.5M per

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03-29-2014, 04:26 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Either that, or they believe in the player and want to lock him up long-ish term, so maybe 4 or 5 years instead of 1 or 2.

I don't suspect that Mac-T is an idiot letting players write blank cheques, the Scrivens deal leads me to believe that.

If they "believe in" Schultz, then maybe something like 5 years @ $4.5-5.5M per
I don't like Petry these days, but why is Justin Schultz going to be making more money than him?

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03-29-2014, 07:08 PM
  #159
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Mac-T should use Justin Faulk's recent extension as a benchmark for Schultz's.

If he is seeking term, then indicate that since he's nowhere near the talent Faulk is he should happily take $4.25M-4.5M on a 6-year extension the same way (better) guys like Voynov/Shattenkirk took.

In all honesty, Schultz shouldn't be seeing anything over $4M - but I think market and general managerial stupidity will result in him getting 4.5M+ on a long-term extension.

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03-29-2014, 07:15 PM
  #160
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Mac-T should use Justin Faulk's recent extension as a benchmark for Schultz's.

If he is seeking term, then indicate that since he's nowhere near the talent Faulk is he should happily take $4.25M-4.5M on a 6-year extension the same way (better) guys like Voynov/Shattenkirk took.

In all honesty, Schultz shouldn't be seeing anything over $4M - but I think market and general managerial stupidity will result in him getting 4.5M+ on a long-term extension.
Schultz is also nowhere near Voynov or Shattenkirk. Like not even close. Also not even close to Faulk.

Since Marincin joined our team, Marincin has been vastly superior to Justin. I don't get why 4M is even in discussion. Gross.

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03-29-2014, 07:16 PM
  #161
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MacT pinched every penny with Scrivens... think Schultz and Co. look at the Faulk deal and take 4 * 4.

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03-29-2014, 07:28 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Schultz is also nowhere near Voynov or Shattenkirk. Like not even close. Also not even close to Faulk.

Since Marincin joined our team, Marincin has been vastly superior to Justin. I don't get why 4M is even in discussion. Gross.
I can completely agree with your line of thinking - I just think Schultz's general mindset (the way he scummed over ANA for more minutes/money in EDM) will force Mac-T to open the bank up to sign him.

Pure value-wise he's probably worth 4 x 3.5M or something similar. But he'll get more.

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03-29-2014, 07:53 PM
  #163
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Maybe we should trade him then.

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03-29-2014, 07:58 PM
  #164
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Maybe we should trade him then.
I think it's a decent idea - as adding Schultz to a Gagner package could probably return a legit top-pairing/top-4 defenseman that could help this team long-term. An early-to-mid 20's defenseman just entering his prime.

If you need instant replacement of that PP production or whatever then just sign a veteran that can provide a similar presence. There's a bunch of those kind of players on the market every year. They range from elites like Markov to bottom-pairing fodder like JM Liles/Joe Corvo.

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03-29-2014, 08:00 PM
  #165
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Maybe we should trade him then.
I've considered this lately.

If you traded him to the Avs for their 2015 1st, that would be good for both sides.

We could then use a 2015 pick to get a real D-man, and roll with

BLANK-Petry
BLANK-Ference
Marincin-Klefbom

It depends on how ready Oscar really is.

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03-29-2014, 08:06 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
I've considered this lately.

If you traded him to the Avs for their 2015 1st, that would be good for both sides.

We could then use a 2015 pick to get a real D-man, and roll with

BLANK-Petry
BLANK-Ference
Marincin-Klefbom

It depends on how ready Oscar really is.
Seriously? Another "future"? I'd rather deal him and whatever he's worth with another tweener in Gagner and see if we can bring a legitimate NHL defenseman into this lineup.

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03-29-2014, 08:15 PM
  #167
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Seriously? Another "future"? I'd rather deal him and whatever he's worth with another tweener in Gagner and see if we can bring a legitimate NHL defenseman into this lineup.
Well, 1st of all, I think the Avs are going to regress hard next year, so I think that pick will be top 15. EDIT: We might be able to steal a Parenteau or McGinn as well for the 3rd line if we made this deal.

2nd, I mean, I guess it all depends on value. If Justin has more value than we think, then I'm game for whatever we are offered. Gagner unfortunately has a much lower value than he should perhaps, so I'm not sure that package would get us as much as we'd hope.


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03-29-2014, 08:46 PM
  #168
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Ya I was thinking more along the lines of throwing him in a package for an NHL player...

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03-29-2014, 10:59 PM
  #169
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Trade bait.

Sadly, the Oilers overvalue their players. Schultz in a deal for a better d would be the best move. How about Schultz and Gagner for Gunnarsson and Clarkson (some salary retained)?

I have no doubt that Clarkson is a bottom 9 forward. That said, a line of Hendricks-Gordon-Clarkson can match up well against some tough competition in our division.

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03-29-2014, 11:35 PM
  #170
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I don't think trading Schultz is a realistic option. Upgrading D is nearly impossible in this league. Adding Gagner would not change that.

Schultz plays 24 minutes a night for a reason. To play on the top pairing you have to play the puck well. Petry would never cut it there. Marincin is not good enough yet. For all of Schultz's problems he is still a valuable asset for this team going forward, and at 23 years old he's still not touching his prime yet.

He may be expendable in a year or two. As an RFA we're not even allowed to offer him a NMC so signing him won't tie our hands at all.

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03-30-2014, 12:49 AM
  #171
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I don't think trading Schultz is a realistic option. Upgrading D is nearly impossible in this league. Adding Gagner would not change that.

Schultz plays 24 minutes a night for a reason. To play on the top pairing you have to play the puck well. Petry would never cut it there. Marincin is not good enough yet. For all of Schultz's problems he is still a valuable asset for this team going forward, and at 23 years old he's still not touching his prime yet.

He may be expendable in a year or two. As an RFA we're not even allowed to offer him a NMC so signing him won't tie our hands at all.
Add Eberle. Add Yakupov. Add 2014/2015 1st.

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03-30-2014, 02:37 AM
  #172
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Schultz doesn't deserve anywhere close to 4. His defense has improved, yes. But its still below average. He has to be given a bridge deal. Subban was a legit top pairing guy in 2012 and he got a bridge deal at 2 years under 3 mill.

The Oilers are too attached to this idea of a core of saviors that are Hall, RNH, Eberle, and Schultz. IMO- The players on this team that you build around are Hall, RNH, Perron, and Klefbom/Nurse/Marincin on the back end. If we get Ekblad, I don't see Schultz fitting into our top 4. Rag on Petry all you want-but he is only 26 and is a much better RD than Schultz.

My biggest issue with Schultz is his lack of compete and lack of character. I will never forget watching Bryzgalov get run into purposely by Garbuut (giving Bryz a concussion)-and Schultz is right there and LOOKS AWAY like it didn't happen. Schultz-for me so far-is a microchasm of what's wrong with some of our players. He has all the skill in the world, but is soft as butter and doesn't compete hard enough.

Long story short, I need to see a lot more from Schultz before I am convinced that he's part of the core.

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03-30-2014, 04:40 AM
  #173
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Schultz is also nowhere near Voynov or Shattenkirk. Like not even close. Also not even close to Faulk.

Since Marincin joined our team, Marincin has been vastly superior to Justin. I don't get why 4M is even in discussion. Gross.
He's a $2 million bridge guy. He's not even in the same ballpark as those guys as a player yet.

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03-30-2014, 05:31 AM
  #174
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I think 2.15m is about right for Schultz. One year.

This team needs to start making players earn their millions.

I would rather get Petry signed at a good rate long term. 4 years at 3m

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03-30-2014, 09:12 AM
  #175
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Maybe we should trade him then.
To Anaheim of course. For a power centre, or Ottawas first. That would be so rediculous I'd laugh til I puked.


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