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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Impact of Olympics on Russian Hockey

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02-27-2014, 10:52 AM
  #26
Yakushev72
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
I am not pumping Yak. I am saying that Popov guy was a total waste of a roster spot. Useless. Don't take it as some kind of compliment to Yak. I would have replaced Popov with a pylon.
Popov was every bit as good and as productive as Tarasenko, Kulyomin and Anisimov, among the many other NHL'ers who really stunk up the joint.

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02-27-2014, 11:02 AM
  #27
Diatomic
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Negative impact. Russia was humiliated, its star players ridiculed, Putin was pissed. Seriously Russia develop some defensemen, Gonchar and Markov were great but now there's no one to take their spot.

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02-27-2014, 11:14 AM
  #28
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Russia needs to start at the greass roots level and start developing defenceman both offensive and defensive.

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02-27-2014, 11:22 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Diatomic View Post
Negative impact. Russia was humiliated, its star players ridiculed, Putin was pissed. Seriously Russia develop some defensemen, Gonchar and Markov were great but now there's no one to take their spot.
This is key.. Russia had about as many NHL defensmen in the 90s as they have total NHL players now.

Remember Tverdosky, Yushkevich, Mironov, Zubov, Malahkov, Zhitnki, Fetisov, Karpovtsev.. #hockeycardmemories

But seriously, after Markov leaves does Russia have any legit top line Dman left? Voynov maybe, Tyutin.

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02-27-2014, 01:53 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
Yak would have been better than Popov.
Really? I thought Popov performed admirably. Solid defensively, motor never stopped running.
He was miles ahead of Kulemin who played a similar role on the team.

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02-27-2014, 02:17 PM
  #31
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The fact of the matter is, that they did not play as a TEAM. They played as individuals, and believed their own hype. It was a not a NHL-KHL problem, and while the coaching was useless, it wasn't the main issue. Datsyuk was the only player on the ice, in all 5 games, playing a "team" game. Simple as that. If you want a crystal clear proof of this watch the first game vs Slovenia. I was surprised they managed to win.

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02-27-2014, 03:15 PM
  #32
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When Canada laid an egg at Nagano kid's didn't stop signing up for hockey, and didn't stop dreaming of playing in the NHL. What did happen is Hockey Canada got its crap together and figured out how we could develop better hockey players. And the NHL brass figured out they shouldn't let Bob Clarke choose the Olympic team. And things have been pretty good ever since.

I don't think suddenly Russia's governing hockey body is going to implode, and I even doubt anybody is going to get sent to Kolyma. They'll make some adjustments and I bet they have a solid showing in the next couple of tournaments.

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02-27-2014, 03:37 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by McGuillicuddy View Post
When Canada laid an egg at Nagano kid's didn't stop signing up for hockey, and didn't stop dreaming of playing in the NHL. What did happen is Hockey Canada got its crap together and figured out how we could develop better hockey players. And the NHL brass figured out they shouldn't let Bob Clarke choose the Olympic team. And things have been pretty good ever since.

I don't think suddenly Russia's governing hockey body is going to implode, and I even doubt anybody is going to get sent to Kolyma. They'll make some adjustments and I bet they have a solid showing in the next couple of tournaments.
Russia has been laying so many eggs I was wondering if they replaced the rinks with hen-houses.

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02-27-2014, 04:06 PM
  #34
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What would have happened if Russia had a chance to play Canada? Do you think revenge against Canada for 2010 was on their minds - maybe a little too much?

Playing us might have elevated their game. Then again, it might have been demoralizing as **** to lose again.

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02-27-2014, 04:29 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by An Argument For View Post
This is key.. Russia had about as many NHL defensmen in the 90s as they have total NHL players now.

Remember Tverdosky, Yushkevich, Mironov, Zubov, Malahkov, Zhitnki, Fetisov, Karpovtsev.. #hockeycardmemories

But seriously, after Markov leaves does Russia have any legit top line Dman left? Voynov maybe, Tyutin.
Voynov?? Seriously. Voynov and Nikitin were by far Russia's worst players in Sochi, regardless of position. Voynov is too slow and lacks basic defensive competency.

Russian fans are all too aware of our deficiencies at the blue line. Russian junior hockey has quadrupled in size and scope over the last 4 years, but it is going to take 4 or 5 more years before the fruits of that expansion start to become evident. But it was just poor coaching decisions that allowed Voynov and Nikitin on to the roster.

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02-27-2014, 04:30 PM
  #36
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Russia has been laying so many eggs I was wondering if they replaced the rinks with hen-houses.
Hahaha! That line was pure gold!

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02-27-2014, 04:35 PM
  #37
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One thing you can bet on, Russia will be bringing everyone it has to the World Championships. It was the same thing in 2010. They flamed out badly in the Olympics, then tried to redeem themselves by essentially bringing their Olympic team to the WC to play against a bunch of stripped down rosters from the other nations. As I recall, they didn't even win that tourney.

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02-27-2014, 06:21 PM
  #38
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More rinks and more access to hockey (so expensive) is all it really comes down to. Everything else is just kicking them while they're down.

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02-27-2014, 06:36 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
This. To read Russia's elimination by Finland to mean anything about the KHL is mind-bogglingly stupid.
There was a schism in the dressing room thanks to Z. and his preference for the KHL players in the lineup over his NHL star players. That was a significant contributing factor to the demoralized play of the Russian team.

This notion that the KHL is somehow a competitive league to the NHL is sheer nonsense. When NA fringe players like Brandon Bochenski, Nigel Dawes, Kyle Wilson and Jonathan Cheechoo can be among the scoring leaders on unfamiliar big ice, the level of play is nowhere near the NHL. Russia is hurting its programme the most by holding its players back in the KHL or encouraging them to return there instead of in a much, much better league. It doesn't look like they're going to learn from this, though.

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02-27-2014, 06:58 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Finland had more KHLers than Russia. In fact, it was the KHL guys for Russia who were the only ones doing anything.

How can you say they were trying to showcase the KHL when they didn't leave any worthy NHLers behind? I mean, who do you think should have been there? Nail Yakupov? lol
It's not as much who wasn't there as it is the poor utilization of the NHL players who were there. In the quarter-final against Finland, the defenceman who played the most minutes was Medvedev--a player who wasn't even drafted. Not Markov (only 17 minutes!--averages 25 in the NHL). Not Tyutin (13 minutes!). Same deal with the forwards. Radulov got way more ice time than Malkin, Ovechkin OR Datsyuk. Tarasenko and Nichuskin were each on the ice for all of 3 minutes. Brutal.

In terms of who wasn't there from the NHL, I would have at least put the youngsters on the roster and seen what they could do. Kulikov. Kucherov. Yakupov. Plus I would have added a couple of cagey veterans on defence, like Gonchar and Volchenkov.

With most of his players being from the NHL, Z. totally botched things by preferring his KHL players in terms of ice time. Big time.

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02-27-2014, 08:23 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by hammerwielder View Post
There was a schism in the dressing room thanks to Z. and his preference for the KHL players in the lineup over his NHL star players. That was a significant contributing factor to the demoralized play of the Russian team..

Is this what the North American media told you?

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02-27-2014, 08:44 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by hammerwielder View Post
There was a schism in the dressing room thanks to Z. and his preference for the KHL players in the lineup over his NHL star players. That was a significant contributing factor to the demoralized play of the Russian team.

This notion that the KHL is somehow a competitive league to the NHL is sheer nonsense. When NA fringe players like Brandon Bochenski, Nigel Dawes, Kyle Wilson and Jonathan Cheechoo can be among the scoring leaders on unfamiliar big ice, the level of play is nowhere near the NHL. Russia is hurting its programme the most by holding its players back in the KHL or encouraging them to return there instead of in a much, much better league. It doesn't look like they're going to learn from this, though.
Jonathan Cheechoo is not among the scoring leaders in the KHL. Those other guys like Dawes and Bochesnki are what you'd call tweeners. They put up loads of points in the AHL and are more developed now having been in the KHL for a while and are in their hockey primes. The reason they couldn't stick in the NHL isn't that they are incapable of scoring, but that they don't score enough to justify not bringing anything else to the table. The fact that they would be able to produce good numbers in a league not quite as good as the NHL should not come as some huge surprise and isn't an indictment on the league as a whole. After all, the best scorers in the world are all in the NHL.

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02-27-2014, 09:13 PM
  #43
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All of Russia's best players will be older than dirt in 4 years. They better do something fast or when hockey fans start talking about the Big 4, Russia will not be in the mix.

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02-27-2014, 09:43 PM
  #44
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All of Russia's best players will be older than dirt in 4 years. They better do something fast or when hockey fans start talking about the Big 4, Russia will not be in the mix.
Kevy, you think every country is getting old. There's not gonna be anyone left.

New players will come. They always do.

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02-28-2014, 10:27 AM
  #45
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One thing you can bet on, Russia will be bringing everyone it has to the World Championships. It was the same thing in 2010. They flamed out badly in the Olympics, then tried to redeem themselves by essentially bringing their Olympic team to the WC to play against a bunch of stripped down rosters from the other nations. As I recall, they didn't even win that tourney.
Russia got lucky in the 2010 Worlds when Canada sent a bunch of scrubs like Stamkos, Perry, Getzlaf, Tavares, and a bunch of guys of that caliber. It was an easy walkover for Russia - 6-2. I doubt the Russians will get lucky enough to have Canada send tools like that again!

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02-28-2014, 10:35 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Russia got lucky in the 2010 Worlds when Canada sent a bunch of scrubs like Stamkos, Perry, Getzlaf, Tavares, and a bunch of guys of that caliber. It was an easy walkover for Russia - 6-2. I doubt the Russians will get lucky enough to have Canada send tools like that again!
Too bad Russia couldn't get that lucky at the Olympics... youknowwhatimsayin?

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02-28-2014, 10:48 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
All of Russia's best players will be older than dirt in 4 years. They better do something fast or when hockey fans start talking about the Big 4, Russia will not be in the mix.
This assumes that the NHL will be participating in the 2018 games. According to this week's issue of Sports Illustrated in the United States, the NHL has already decided not to go to Korea - they just haven't made the announcement yet.

But if the NHL should change its mind on Korea, isn't it true that Canada and Russia will likely be the same age across the board? The spark for the Canadian Gold Medal in Vancouver came from their 2005 World Juniors group - Crosby, Bergeron, Perry, Getzlaf, Weber, etc. The spark for the Gold Medal in Sochi came from the same 2005 World Jr. group. In 2018, if the NHL goes, these guys will be around 33 years old, and they'll still be outstanding players, but they'll have a little less spring and speed, and they will be trying to achieve a three-peat, which is harder to do.

Canada hasn't won a Gold Medal in six years at the WJC, which is probably an accurate gauge of where the competitive balance lies. As Brent Sutter said, back in 2005 Canada had no real competition, but now Europeans and even the US are changing the competitive balance. I predict a three-peat won't happen.

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02-28-2014, 11:03 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
This assumes that the NHL will be participating in the 2018 games. According to this week's issue of Sports Illustrated in the United States, the NHL has already decided not to go to Korea - they just haven't made the announcement yet.

But if the NHL should change its mind on Korea, isn't it true that Canada and Russia will likely be the same age across the board? The spark for the Canadian Gold Medal in Vancouver came from their 2005 World Juniors group - Crosby, Bergeron, Perry, Getzlaf, Weber, etc. The spark for the Gold Medal in Sochi came from the same 2005 World Jr. group. In 2018, if the NHL goes, these guys will be around 33 years old, and they'll still be outstanding players, but they'll have a little less spring and speed, and they will be trying to achieve a three-peat, which is harder to do.

Canada hasn't won a Gold Medal in six years at the WJC, which is probably an accurate gauge of where the competitive balance lies. As Brent Sutter said, back in 2005 Canada had no real competition, but now Europeans and even the US are changing the competitive balance. I predict a three-peat won't happen.
What are you talking about? The Russian players of today are older than the Canadian players of today (NHL stars) and the Canadians have a pipeline of amazingly talented new guys who haven't even gotten their chances yet. Seguin, Hall, Eberle, Turris, Nugent-Hopkins, Johansen, Mackinnon, O'Reilly, Smith etc.. These guys are playing amazing in the NHL now and are all under 25.

Also, you said Canada had no competition in 2005? That's because the team was actually that amazing. It's the greatest Junior team to ever play the game. Let's not forget that Canada went 7 years without winning prior to the 2005 beating of all beatings.


I'm glad that you're hoping the NHLers don't show up though.. just proves that mother Russia is weak.

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02-28-2014, 11:18 AM
  #49
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The Russian federation seemed bent on trying to prove the KHL guys were just as good or better than the NHL Russian players. It wasn't even close. The KHL guys were exposed as was their coaching. The last best on best the Russians won was the 1981 Canada Cup , great individual talent but have problems playing a team game.

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02-28-2014, 11:23 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Russia got lucky in the 2010 Worlds when Canada sent a bunch of scrubs like Stamkos, Perry, Getzlaf, Tavares, and a bunch of guys of that caliber. It was an easy walkover for Russia - 6-2. I doubt the Russians will get lucky enough to have Canada send tools like that again!
Yeah, let's ignore Russia's results against full teams and instead focus on when they played Perry, not Getzlaf (wasn't even on the team), not Stamkos (injured early in the tournament) and a teenaged Tavares. Definitely meaningful!

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